Metacritic: RO2: 75/68 - RO:O: 81/86.
- Thread starter Fedorov
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That's just it. I havent touched this game in almost 2 weeks. Its not even fun.
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Is this really surprising? Ro1 was unique. No other game had that kind of gameplay. It made sense for most people to assume that it ro2 would carry on the same. But not only did it turn into a generic fps thats just mediocre, but bugs that some still exist, annoyed newcomers, and i dont blame them. Ro2 is such a waste, im surprised it got as high as it did. Can only hope mods restore it to its glory. But at the moment its not even a fun game.
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I find that pretty weird. Why would someone who doesn't play a game bother coming to the forums? That is pretty pathetic, and quite creepy if you ask me. Which you didn't. But there you go.
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1+ In any business it is smart to keep the loyal, since they equal into long term consistent sales. Some larger companies in the past have changed their game slightly to attract other groups but it was done well and with a already huge fanbase ex(Mass effect 2). Dragon age 2 did not do as well because it was a drastic change and angered many fans even though it was a pretty good game. TW was too small to attempt so big of a change towards mainstreme, and changed a lot in the game without telling any of the fans. So its no wonder that when the fans received the finished product, it wasn't anything like what the fans expected. One has to wonder how the game would be if the devs focused all their efforts into making a true RO1 sequel instead of a lvl system, prototype weapons, unrealistic weapon upgrades, radar, broken cover system, and singleplayer.
Ro2 has some good things implemented but it needs work. Mods will probably help later on.
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The low metacritic scores in my opinion come mostly from 2 parts. The game was simply not ready for release. If TWI really needed to release something at that point to obtain money it would probably have been better to release in an minecraft fashion to just ask money to participate in a beta and later allow people get a free update to the full game.
In essence that is just a name, but it delays the period where people can say the game is still in beta. And will put a hold on final reviews, as reviews come and logically talk about the state when the game is released.
But another part is that a big part of the old core community felt betrayed by past made promises by TWI with regards to for instance weapon rarity and load outs. While as put by TWI that this forum consists of 0.01% of the community implying that this forums opinion is unimportant, statements like that often upset the community even more.
But while perhaps a small group of the community, it was a core part of the community that for instance often posted loads of positive reviews on for instance meta critic and other forums and now instead a lot of that group now post negatively. Its a similar reaction in a sense to when IW stopped dedicated servers and while at release loads of players played it and loved it, user reviews were really down as the vocal part of the community felt betrayed.
So it might not mean a lot from a money standpoint, but when word of advertising is the main source of advertisement it might hurt a little. A lot of people here just bought games based on the goodwill from tripwire and wanted to support TWI through the bugs. And for a good group of people both the bugged release as reactions that the opinions in these forums don't matter take away a lot of that goodwill.
In the end all of this probably wont matter for TWI, as TWI said they made more money on HOS than all previous releases of them. But for me as a player, I don't care for company revenue i care for people on the servers, and the fun I have with a game. While game revenue is high, the max player amounts per day atm are very low, when compared to say killing floor and ro1 this time after release (and those releases were not bug free either). Future patches, free weekends and price drops will of course increase things, but for now from a player standpoint HOS is doing worse than home front did.
I've never been a player that cared much for realism, so things being non realistic doesn't touch me much. But how that the realism community that has always been an integral part of the community, is being shoved away does irk me. Especially as they are not so much asking the game to be changed for all players, but just want to be able to play the game in a mode that is as realistic as possible (a lot of people thought that the realism mode of the game would offer this for the old roost players).
For me the big issues in RO2 however are some parts of the gameplay. The mod and ostfront had a mystical weapon balance, weapons were truly different and not so much better than the other, we now have clear weapons that perform good in every possible scenario and are clearly better than other weaponry, and in high amounts. What I like about the ww2 scenario is the high variation in weaponry where different weapons complement each other over the good for everything scenario of assault rifles in modern combat (i had no issue with the stg in ostfront even if it was available for every smg). Gameplay turned away from epic firefights, to more a game where you mostly kill people that never saw you, and that you get killed mostly be people that you do not see.
The lockdown timer often stops maps in the middle of the game, not when a team is getting slaughtered or clearly losing it just stops it halfway.
I hope the best for TWI and RO2. But current events give me a sour taste in my mouth. If anything I probably wanted things to change the most from how it was in RO1, but I hoped that TWI would try to still please all the main user groups from RO1 in RO2. You can't please all but the preferences of the main groups of Roost were clear. RO2 still got loads of potential, and the first time I played it I was amazed by the initial feeling, but when finding how the actual current game play is simply lacking in fun for me.
In essence that is just a name, but it delays the period where people can say the game is still in beta. And will put a hold on final reviews, as reviews come and logically talk about the state when the game is released.
But another part is that a big part of the old core community felt betrayed by past made promises by TWI with regards to for instance weapon rarity and load outs. While as put by TWI that this forum consists of 0.01% of the community implying that this forums opinion is unimportant, statements like that often upset the community even more.
But while perhaps a small group of the community, it was a core part of the community that for instance often posted loads of positive reviews on for instance meta critic and other forums and now instead a lot of that group now post negatively. Its a similar reaction in a sense to when IW stopped dedicated servers and while at release loads of players played it and loved it, user reviews were really down as the vocal part of the community felt betrayed.
So it might not mean a lot from a money standpoint, but when word of advertising is the main source of advertisement it might hurt a little. A lot of people here just bought games based on the goodwill from tripwire and wanted to support TWI through the bugs. And for a good group of people both the bugged release as reactions that the opinions in these forums don't matter take away a lot of that goodwill.
In the end all of this probably wont matter for TWI, as TWI said they made more money on HOS than all previous releases of them. But for me as a player, I don't care for company revenue i care for people on the servers, and the fun I have with a game. While game revenue is high, the max player amounts per day atm are very low, when compared to say killing floor and ro1 this time after release (and those releases were not bug free either). Future patches, free weekends and price drops will of course increase things, but for now from a player standpoint HOS is doing worse than home front did.
I've never been a player that cared much for realism, so things being non realistic doesn't touch me much. But how that the realism community that has always been an integral part of the community, is being shoved away does irk me. Especially as they are not so much asking the game to be changed for all players, but just want to be able to play the game in a mode that is as realistic as possible (a lot of people thought that the realism mode of the game would offer this for the old roost players).
For me the big issues in RO2 however are some parts of the gameplay. The mod and ostfront had a mystical weapon balance, weapons were truly different and not so much better than the other, we now have clear weapons that perform good in every possible scenario and are clearly better than other weaponry, and in high amounts. What I like about the ww2 scenario is the high variation in weaponry where different weapons complement each other over the good for everything scenario of assault rifles in modern combat (i had no issue with the stg in ostfront even if it was available for every smg). Gameplay turned away from epic firefights, to more a game where you mostly kill people that never saw you, and that you get killed mostly be people that you do not see.
The lockdown timer often stops maps in the middle of the game, not when a team is getting slaughtered or clearly losing it just stops it halfway.
I hope the best for TWI and RO2. But current events give me a sour taste in my mouth. If anything I probably wanted things to change the most from how it was in RO1, but I hoped that TWI would try to still please all the main user groups from RO1 in RO2. You can't please all but the preferences of the main groups of Roost were clear. RO2 still got loads of potential, and the first time I played it I was amazed by the initial feeling, but when finding how the actual current game play is simply lacking in fun for me.
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That's in the title as well, but yes.
The first one had a user score above the reviews score which were higher than this one, and still, the user score in the new one falls below the already lower review score.
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To be honest, sadly the scores reflect the reality. RO2 is not at the same level of RO1, not because of the bugs but because of it's design.
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Wise words Zets! TWI's handling of this could have been better. They alienate their community with defensive or "head in the sand" attitudes. I don't feel like I'm on their side anymore, and I always was since before Ostfront released and have praised them ever since, here or elsewhere.
They don't have to agree, but they should be more open and less defensive, and drop the "0.1%" bs. I don't care for mods for the game either, if the base game is no good I won't be playing, no matter what mods come out. Unless they're top quality and manage to unite the playerbase somehow
They don't have to agree, but they should be more open and less defensive, and drop the "0.1%" bs. I don't care for mods for the game either, if the base game is no good I won't be playing, no matter what mods come out. Unless they're top quality and manage to unite the playerbase somehow
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Just because a game sell well doesn't mean it do well. Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising sold about 1.2 million copies due to it's earlier repuptation. Operation Flashpoint: Red River was released this year and struggled to sell 100,000 copies in the EU. Codemasters Guildford studio is now closed down and the project Operation Flashpoint and Bodycount is history.
When it comes to RO2, I believe the drop isn't just the bugs and glitches, but the fact that TWI have changed the game's direction since RO1 into a more arcade-like game in order to make it appeal to a wider audience. This is not only TWI, other companies have done or do the same thing aswell, and there is three major problems with this, especially in ROs case.
First off, in order to make RO appeal to casual gamers you'll have to make it 50 less hardcore than what it is now. Because as it is now most casual gamers won't simply enjoy RO2 because It's away to hard. Second, by removing what the orginal audience that wants realism this will be quite bad for TWI since their orginal fanbase may dump their game while the casual gamers go back to Battlefield and COD. Even trying to compete with BF3 and COD is crazy IMO. And that's the thing with RO1. It didn't really compete with any other game simply because RO1 was extremely innovative and diffrent. It was not in line with battlefield and it wasn't in line with arma either. It created It's own mark and It's own style. It seems like RO2 tries to be something it simplt isn't.
When it comes to RO3 I am a little bit worried. The reason why people bought RO2 doesn't neccesary have something to do with the game itself. The reason I bought it was because it was called Red Orchestra. If I knew that RO2 would be as it is now I would have waited until it was fixed by TWI or any mod team. If it isn't, then there is no point for me to play it, because I don't enjoy it atm.. RO2's impact won't be shown until RO3 is released. People may have bought RO2 because of the brands repuptation and if RO2 gets a bad repuptation less people will certainly buy RO3.
When it comes to RO2, I believe the drop isn't just the bugs and glitches, but the fact that TWI have changed the game's direction since RO1 into a more arcade-like game in order to make it appeal to a wider audience. This is not only TWI, other companies have done or do the same thing aswell, and there is three major problems with this, especially in ROs case.
First off, in order to make RO appeal to casual gamers you'll have to make it 50 less hardcore than what it is now. Because as it is now most casual gamers won't simply enjoy RO2 because It's away to hard. Second, by removing what the orginal audience that wants realism this will be quite bad for TWI since their orginal fanbase may dump their game while the casual gamers go back to Battlefield and COD. Even trying to compete with BF3 and COD is crazy IMO. And that's the thing with RO1. It didn't really compete with any other game simply because RO1 was extremely innovative and diffrent. It was not in line with battlefield and it wasn't in line with arma either. It created It's own mark and It's own style. It seems like RO2 tries to be something it simplt isn't.
When it comes to RO3 I am a little bit worried. The reason why people bought RO2 doesn't neccesary have something to do with the game itself. The reason I bought it was because it was called Red Orchestra. If I knew that RO2 would be as it is now I would have waited until it was fixed by TWI or any mod team. If it isn't, then there is no point for me to play it, because I don't enjoy it atm.. RO2's impact won't be shown until RO3 is released. People may have bought RO2 because of the brands repuptation and if RO2 gets a bad repuptation less people will certainly buy RO3.
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Metascores are totally worthless. Out Of The Park Baseball is much better than HL2. And User scores are too prone to manipulation. Look at the scores of Civ V and SH III. Both are **** because some fags in the community asked all their friends to downvote them, despite the games being awesome.
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