Hey Ramm-Jaeger what happened to hero status & MkB42H/AVT40 being rare weapons?

[DiedTrying]

The stock RO1 maps were not 'alot bigger' compared to the stock RO2 maps. Some of the RO1 custom maps and most likely DH maps are a lot bigger.

Some of the maps were bigger

but fog/smoke and general visual obstructions made the fights happen within smaller areas

 

[Reddog]

First off, regarding my whereabouts and people saying "Ramm hasn't logged in to the forums for a week". I was on a well deserved vacation. And a lot of devs have been cycling through vacation starting last week. The dev team pulled a 6-8 month death march to get the game out. Some people (myself included) worked 12+ hour days for 6 months without a day off to get the game shipped. So we all sure as hell deserved a few days off. So unless you want mindless half asleep zombies doing bug fixes, updates, and new content for RO2, I highly suggest you stop harassing devs for getting some well needed rest

As Jared has said regarding the weapon loadouts, we changed our mind during the course of the development. The original way that we were planning to do it wasn't looking like it was going to fit in as well as we'd like. So we implemented it a different way. Given that Ostfront used STG44's in a similar amount (or more) I'm quite surprised at the outcry. There weren't any 100 page threads in Ostfront with tons of people in an uproar over having "too many assault rifles" in Danzig and similar maps. We designed RO2 with pretty close to the same realism measures that we did in RO1. We've always had some odd weapons in the game, and we've always done things where we abstracted functionality to make it fun to play. The question we always asked was "can this weapon have possibly been there". If the answer was yes, it was fair game to put it in there. Remember the PPD40 and the MP41? They were rare weapons, but were featured in almost every map. And yet there was almost never a mention of the PPD40, and just only a slight murmur over the use of the MP41.

Of course what is really funny is the cries of "RO2 is already dying", "look at the Steam stats, the player counts have dropped off". This is really funny for a few reasons. First off, it is the natural cycle of EVERY game to have a big peak around launch, and then the player counts taper off until they stabilize. Where was RO1 at this point after launch - about 1000-1200 players at peak. Where was Killing Floor at this point - less than 3,000 players at peak. So for RO2 to be at 3,000 players a few weeks after launch, with 10% less of a drop off than Killing Floor and 3x what RO1 had - I'd call that a good thing. KF actually dropped off down to 800-1000 a couple months after launch before the TWI free content cycle kicked in. After that the player counts climbed and never went back down to the same place after the updates. This summer KF was averaging peaks of 4000-5000 players. And of course right now EVERY game on Steam has taken a player count hit while everyone checks out the BF3 beta. So before everyone starts shouting "look RO2 is dying" you need to realize this is just part of the normal life cycle of the game.

We'll do the same thing we always do, grab a good core group of players at the outset. Then continue to build on that core group of players by supporting the game, adding free content, doing Steam promotions, etc. See it is a long cycle plan - not like the big publishers that spend a $100 million on marketing to get everyone to jump into the game at launch then burn them a year later with releasing next years version of the same game (or burn them every two months with $15 2 map DLC). Every game for us is a long term thing.

So in summary, I would like to ask you guys, especially you guys that have been around for a long time to try and be civil. We're never going to please EVERYONE, but polite, well thought out suggestions are a lot more likely to get our attention than flaming and dev bashing. If there are changes people want we'll look into them. But you're not going to get them "tommorow", so have some patience

Some thoughts;

- The StG44 was not a rare prototype weapon, it was a mass produced weapon which in RO1 was only featured in late war maps where it was historically accurate. That is why there was no outcry, the mere fact the MKB is in Stalingrad is highly questionable at the outset. Basically this is a disingenuous comparison.

- Fair enough a design decision was made, however why keep feeding the community the MKB will be rare line right up to release when it must have been common knowledge amongst yourselves that this wasn't true?

- Interesting you bring up the PPD40 and MP41, they'd make much more sense as unlocks than the MP40/2 and having a drumless PPSH for 25 levels.

 

[SiC-Disaster]

In all honesty, the solution is so simple.
Change the Full Realism mode to include a more proper loadout for each team, one where the bolt action rifle isnt a rarer weapon than the MKB is.
And in my personal opinion, we can do with 2 'squads' less.
Right now on a 64-player server you basically have 1 teamleader, 4 squadleaders, 4 LMG's, and assault slots for every squad and some snipers, and the remainder are bolt action rifles, which is a ridiculously small amount.
If you would reduce it to 1 teamleader, 2 squad leaders, 2 LMG's, etc etc. than that already will take a nice chunk of automatic weapons away, focussing the game more on bolt action rifles again.
In addition to that, the prototype weapons really should become Hero-only again, so there are no more than 1 or 2 of them on a 64-player server, though i would definitely prefer there to be just one over two.

In the poll thread i created the results from at least the forums were very, very clear. 500 were for the change, and only 20 people were against it.
You might say "Well, thats a very small part of the playerbase" but i'll say that this IS the most important part. The people who are not on the forums simply do not seem to care enough about the game to participate in discussions about it. These are the people that will leave once other games get released, and not return.
In the mean time, you have got a lot of people who play, or want to play the game regularly and do care enough to participate in discusssions on the forums, but which are largely disappointed with the way the game has turned out because it doesnt fulfill their needs as RO1 used to do. Without change, i fear you will lose those too.

In addition, everyone will unlock an MP40/II after a certain amount of playing, with no way to turn it off. Again, making that more present than regular MP40's, which is ridiculous. We NEED a way to turn off unlocks, because many people simply dislike the idea of having to play with a scope to the G41 etc.
It can be done with a server option to turn off these 'special' weapons, which you guys talked about (which is great and should have been in from the start imho) but also by allowing the player to tick off unlocks he doesnt want himself.
Despite the fact i use a bolt action rifle only, if i was playing with the G41 alone i would NEVER touch it again after it received a scope unlock which i couldnt take off.

I just want to say, i love a LOT of the additions in RO2.
I could not go back to play RO1 without the penetration system, i love the cover system and the ability to fire blind or throw grenades blind, i like the free-aim in ironsights, melee feels more responsive, the damage modeling is a lot more detailed. A lot of features have become more detailed than RO1.
But at the same time i feel it is not allowed to truely shine because it's buried on a load of issues. And the issues i'm talking about are not bug-related, but have been made by design, and they are frustrating enough to cloud over all the great additions.
The over-use of prototype weapons and the faults in the unlock system are a big part of this.

Now all of those would be mute if they are simply fixed in an official mode, and i think it's fair to make the Full Realism mode actually a FULL realism mode. Which means that it should have more differences from the relaxed realism mode other than simple HUD changes.
We dont need 3 modes, and i would dislike it very much if (in the future) we could disable Heroes and prototype weapons with a server mutator if that means the server becomes a custom one because people will barely look through them.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

...I just want to say, i love a LOT of the additions in RO2.
I could not go back to play RO1 without the penetration system, i love the cover system and the ability to fire blind or throw grenades blind, i like the free-aim in ironsights, melee feels more responsive, the damage modeling is a lot more detailed. A lot of features have become more detailed than RO1.
But at the same time i feel it is not allowed to truely shine because it's buried on a load of issues. And the issues i'm talking about are not bug-related, but have been made by design, and they are frustrating enough to cloud over all the great additions.
The over-use of prototype weapons and the faults in the unlock system are a big part of this...

This says it nicely.

 

[Vyllis]

This says it nicely.

Excaclty.

Actually, 70 to 80% of the Russian team spawn with Kark98, MG34, g41.

The first choice i have when i spawn is the Kark98 hood stripped thing. When i play the Russian machinegunner i use the MG34 with double mags, again it's automatically selected.

So you equip the entire Russian team with German weapons to hide the lack of content an balance the game? I can't see the logic under this, because otherwise new content will be given with free dlc...

How with this concept can a side feel unique with it's own strengths and weakness ? It's more like blue team, and red team.


Can devs you explain why and how is fun to have a Russian team equipped with 80% of Germans weapons? How you leaded to this decision?

Don't say stats are bugged, because in less or more than 1 year there will be the same problem.

 

[Golf33]

I'm another one who doesn't really enjoy the unlock system as it's currently implemented.

I'd like to see rare weapons be rare. Give the assault RIFLE and the fully-auto RIFLE to the much rarer Elite RIFLEman class and leave the assault class with their SMGs.

I'd like to see the teams using the proper weapons - German using German weapons, and Russian using Russian weapons. The MG34 with saddle mag is a wonderful weapon but I feel so cheap using it that I often choose to wrestle with the weapon selection screen (which is broken by the forced AA I need to use to get playable framerates) to pick my far less effective but much-loved DP28. Even when my stats are reset and I've actually earned it I still can't see myself taking the wrong side's weapon very often even though the German LMG is so much better. I could tolerate spawning with an enemy weapon better if it was an occasional thing - say every 5th spawn or so.

I'd quite like to see pistols as a higher-level unlock for classes that didn't get them as standard issue historically (i.e. based on the historical scales of issue, not what's currently in-game).

I'd like to see Russian weapons be given historical ammo loadouts. Drum mags for the PPSH as a starting condition our at least as an early unlock. If you're desperate for a great unlock for the Russian assault, give them access to an AVT with an experimental 20 round mag.

I'd like to see the small bonuses for progression remain. Slightly quicker reloads, slightly lower recoil etc are a neat idea and are implemented in a way that fits in well with the atmosphere of the game. The weapon unlocks however jar horribly and need a lot of work.

 

[DiedTrying]

Just had an unhipped STG mow me down....while the guy wielding it was falling off a ledge...after I put 2 AVT rounds into his chest....

and this game isn't "run-n-gun"? Injuries have no immediate effect on your avatars ability to aim, shoot, or move. They can just keep on trucking along spraying their automatics while doing backflips off divingboards after having their rib cage shot in. Then they instant patch and keep on killin.

 

[Kashash]

Don't want to sound rude really but how a man that has an audacity to disdainfully regard us as an unworthy 0,0001% of player base, tries to delude us with fallacious weapon loadouts currently in the game and compare the MkB42H to the STG44 from the RO1 as if it was the same thing, can be in charge of the TWI? As very acutely explained by other members that stg44 wasn't a rare prototype weapon and was only in few late war maps where its presence didn't cause severe unbalance in the gameplay and was historically correct. Please don't ruin the game.

 

[Nimsky]

Thanks for the reply, Ramm and Yosh.

Will it be possible to customize a server's weapon loadouts without losing its Ranked and Realism status? Most players simply refuse to play on Unranked servers, and it would be a shame if realism servers were doomed to stay empty most of the time.

Ideally, we should be able to run Ranked Realism servers that include:

1. 100% customizable loadouts
2. Uniforms getting dirtier as rank goes up (this is still a good feature)
3. Hero options (how many, if any at all)
4. Spawn with enemy weapons options (being able to limit them and select which ones people can select)
5. Native voice acting (the "memory problem" doesn't exist, quite a few of us are playing with native speech)

Etc.

Changing these things should not place a server under Custom mode. That would be unfair. So what's the use of Custom mode then, you might ask? Well, just reserve that one for servers that run mods or mutators.

Furthermore, you guys should put a bit more effort into the realism mode. Now it's just a tacked-on afterthought.:IS2:

 

[Filo90]

I repeat myself.......we have already 2 realism modes, why not make changes on the full realism one or crate a third and make the changes?

 

[Bivoj]

Ramm, thanks for coming into the lion's den

First to explain the "cry" here - for myself (and I cannot speak for all members, but, please, take my 2cents as a guide how can some customers think), I expect nothing more and nothing less from RO2 than "Stalingrad battle appeal" or "the feel of Stalingrad". It is amazing to have photo realistic maps of real locations ingame, but the "appeal" is completely lost when you run around real Stalingrad Grain elevator with sci-fi weapons (and incorrect uniforms, but that is far less of a issue).

The one and only problem for myself is, that the weapons in-game are significantly different from the ones used in Stalingrad battle IRL. I would nevermind actual numbers of StG44s and Gew43s in a game called "RO2: Heroes of battle of Berlin", but I cannot play a game of Stalingrad, where almost whole Soviet Army has German weaponry, PPSh41 with drum mag is rare weapon and every third German soldier has prototype MKb42, while the rest of German infantrymen carry either IRL rare Gew41 or prototype MP40/II (btw. Germans should commonly use the Russian weapons in 42/43, NOT vice versa). That is a big fail. I ceased to play RO2, because it is not appealing for me anymore.

You mentioned MP41 and PPD40, so let me explain the difference between actual sci-fi weaponry of RO2 and these two weapons in RO1:
1) I was not happy to see these two weapons in RO1 either, but they were FAR less painful issue than actual RO2 weaponry.
2) Because MP41 was performing exactly as MP40, the difference was only in graphics and MP40 was "default" weapon of GE assault class, ergo MP41s were very rare (after first few weeks after release, when everyone wanted to "try it", myself included, they almost disappeared). That was fine, I do not mind to have MKb42 ingame as very rare weapon (according to what Wilsonam promised).
3) PPD40 was different story - it behaved slightly different from PPSh41 and was "default" weapon in some maps, I disliked it. BUT PPD40 was not included in all maps and it was not much different from PPSh41 (gameplaywise and graphics of "mates and enemies"), so it not bothered me as much as the actual RO2 mess and I always chose PPSh41 or PPS42/43 as Russian SMG (I was not forced by gameplay to pick the PPD40).

I hope I clarified a bit to you why we are "crying" and why we were not crying because of StG44, MP41 and PPD40 in RO1.

 

[Verluste]

But at the same time i feel it is not allowed to truely shine because it's buried on a load of issues. And the issues i'm talking about are not bug-related, but have been made by design, and they are frustrating enough to cloud over all the great additions.
The over-use of prototype weapons and the faults in the unlock system are a big part of this.

Now this is the major issue that puts all the other gameplay issues and bugs in it's shadow.

 

[Kashash]

Well I respect the TWI for attempting to create realistic FPS which sadly isn't and most of the team seems to be pretty alright although I've heard from other people how one particularly very complex and difficult person, that seems as if with his snazzy ideas that are just wrong ruin the game for all. If they care to save the game and not lose all the valuable players perhaps this calls for desperate measures like "refudiate" the parasite.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

Aside from the historical placement for the stg44 over the mkb42.

The STG 44 had a lot more recoil, so at a range of say across danzig market a good shooter could place shots on a man sized target every 1-2 seconds in OST. I'd be hard pressed to admit the equivalent number in hos is above one shot every half second, and if your resting the gun 1/3 of a second for a follow up shot is possible.

Combine this with weapons not killing people as much as they used too ( the rifles here that is , and im not sure if this is a glitch, but torso shots in ost were almost always kills), and bullets whizzing by you upsetting your aim, means that if that rifleman misses his shot he had better be hiding behind cover not concealment because the MKBer can be a fresh of the dl-boat newb and still place accurate fire so consistently that the rifleman will not get another shot off...

 

[Stahlhelmii]

The Stg44 in RO1 was MUCH different. It had such recoil that you could only use it in quick bursts; for all practical purposes, it was a semi-auto rifle which ate up ammo too quickly. It had a far different impact on the game, as for the most part, it may as well have been a G41.

 

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

Obviously there is an issue with the abundance of the MkB42H, G41, SVT-40 and the AVT-40; they shouldn't be available in the number that they are. Bolt actions aren't nearly as well to begin with. They are not as forgiving or versatile as the semiautomatics (or automatics in the case of the AVT and 42H) nor are they as flexible.

At any point during a match when the physical distance between firefights is lessened, the more glaring the current weapon load-out schema is. What remains are weapons that can compete at all points during the match as an intrinsic part of their design and are vastly superior to what most players can fight back with.

In order for that to be fixed, something has to be done to control the number of them. This can be accomplished by realistic loadouts or making some weapons only available to 'heroic' players. I believe that is one of the best options. This is without delving into whether it is fair for a more casual player to not be able to use some weapons (which is another issue).

Aside from that, I have no gripes with this game. I don't understand where all of the sheer animosity is coming from. I wasn't aware that the forums were on fire until someone casually mentioned it in a server a few days ago. Tripwire made a mistake upon release and are trying to fix it. I'm getting real sick of reading the patronizing attitudes here. There is also a lot of rose-tinted shades going on as well. A lot of RO1 absolutely sucked--RO2 fixed some of the gamey-ness issues (dive shooting, pop rifleman, lack of penetration, etc). I'll respond more when I get the chance.

 

[FAFFER]

game went from excellent in the beta, to a sprayfest as soon as the "day one unlocks" started working.

needs. to. be. fixed.

 

[Synesthesia]

wow, this is sad. So the feedback was "it's all okay, this is the game you bought, wait for mods?"

How can you not expect some rage coming your way? I will not wait for mods. No. This is not the game i bought. I'm done with it. Just look at any 64 player servers, and look how the semis and auto slots are filled to the brim, leaving the bolts as a poor mans solution. It's ridiculous. Did you seriously design for that?

I am never preordering any game again. This has been a bad ride. Cya people!

 

[Badger_McLetcher]

Ok, firstly: I have created an account on this forum to comment on this topic, and say: this is NOT the game I was expecting. I am one of those people who have stopped playing- not because I have gone off to play COD or BF3 (though I have played BF3 beta), but because I could no longer stand playing the game. I have been checking these forums regularly waiting for the patch which I felt was inevitable to deal with the gameplay issues, only to find it is not in the pipeline.
I would also like to say that whilst the forum population may only be a tiny fraction of the overall player base, it is probably also fairly representative of said base.
To wrap up I must confess that I am bitterly disappointed in this game, mainly as I expected so much from RO1 and the trailer videos. However instead of the tactical shooter I was led to expect, I now possess a game that feels like it has attempted (and failed) to be a Battlefield game. There is so much awesome detail in this game- the DP28 mg mag, the tank modelling and I could go on. But the gameplay balance is shot to hell, and it is a major frustration to have this game so near to being brilliant, but flawed in this manner.

 

[rpxy24]

Meanwhile some of us are ruling with our Kar98s & Nagants...