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Long Range Moving Target Shooting

theking

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 14, 2011
50
60
Hi All,

Long range moveing target hit reg seems to be very inconsitent. Im not sure if i completely understand it. The range targeter i.e 100 meters , 200 meters etc. My target is 200 meters away and it only hits when my rifle targeter is on 300 meters vs a static target. Moving target hit reg seems to be way off , is this just me?

100:meters for targets 1 meter to 99 meters?

200: meters: for 100 to 199 meters etc? and so on
 
Seems more like almost 2 meters to me at 100m. Last night, from the 3rd floor of the Grain Elevator, I was putting down people that were running parallel along the back wall with that amount of lead reliably. (About 117m max I think.) I dunno why but I visualized it as about a body length worth of lead and it was hitting more often than not.
 
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Vertically speaking, the ranges in this game are short enough that you should very rarely have to raise the sight (or correct it) very much at all. You all but don't have to worry about it.

Leading targets is a bit more difficult - not so much due to judging the distance but because if your server has you with a ping of over 90 or so it starts to heavily change the amount you need to lead by. (As you have to add bullet lag into your normal calculations) On servers with low ping (especially under 60 or so) I have very little trouble hitting moving targets and in a couple of instances have managed to pick off 3 or 4 sprinting targets 100+ m away within a span of 4 or 5 seconds. On servers with higher ping it can be extremely difficult. Sometimes just by trial and error you can sort of figure out how much "extra" lead you need to be giving, but if the lag is really bad or inconsistent sometimes you just need to primarily target people when they pause for a moment.
 
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sorry for the stupid question, but is there a way to understand what distance is your target?

Not really. I'm terrible at guessing ranges based purely on sight. What you do is play a map a lot of times and just memorize the ranges at which you're killing people, creating your own reference points.

So for example, I know that a straight line from one of the 3rd story windows to the back (German) wall of the Grain Elevator level is about 110 meters, give or take. Extrapolating from that reference point, you can guess that the window in the gatehouse that faces the Grain Elevator is about 80 meters. And you'll know for a fact when you next shoot someone in that window.

Just start memorizing the ranges at which you kill people in the most common areas (from the doorway of one end of the hall on Barracks to the other) so you have lots of reference points to make guesses without having to shoot first. You'll still have to shoot to get your ultimate range, but with a rough approximation of the range, the chances that your first shot will be on target will be much better.
 
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Seems more like almost 2 meters to me at 100m. Last night, from the 3rd floor of the Grain Elevator, I was putting down people that were running parallel along the back wall with that amount of lead reliably. (About 117m max I think.) I dunno why but I visualized it as about a body length worth of lead and it was hitting more often than not.

Hmm... that seems excessive. Maybe the movement speed in game is faster than real life, but a man running directly across your field of view at 300m distance will need to be lead by 1.5 to 2m. So a body length lead at a full sprint directly sideways 300m target.

When I was taught to do it with the 5.56 Steyr AUG, the lead was calculated by aiming at the front, raised knee when at full stride. At 100m, if you aim at the knee when the thigh is horizontal, you will hit in the hip. If you take the length of the thigh bone and add that to the lead once, that is 200m. If you do it a second time it is 300m. Three thigh length lead is 300m.

What is good about this system is that you are using the target as the ruler and the reference point, so the size of the target (and therefore how much ground it can cover per step) is automatically scaled to range and orientation, and your aim point visibly moves with the target, making drop calculation easier. If he's not running straight across, the apparent length of the raised thigh will be shorter in direct relation to how much less sideways distance he will cover in the same time.

Even better is that you don't have to even try estimating how fast the target is running. The lead is calculated from the front knee which goes further forward the faster he is running, until it is horizontal at full stride and at full speed. So if you calculate the drop to hit the hips, but lead by the same distance the knee is in front of the body when it is at full stride, you will automatically give less lead to a man running slower than one running faster. You are using two reference points on the body to show you where to aim, rather than trying to guess.

You must watch the fall of shot and adjust your sights as accurately as possible though. If your sights are set too different, you also have to take account of that, which means guessing where to aim again. What I do is unless the target is clearly greater than 100m, I use the default setting of 100m and take an aimed shot as if that is exactly where the target is. Then I look to see if the bullet missed what it was supposed to hit - the hip - then assume this means he is at a different range. I trust my training in regards to lead and use it to help me calculate range.

So if the bullet hits at the height of his feet, regardless of if it is in front or behind, I assume he is further than 100m and change my sight to 200m and do it again. If the bullet flies high this time and goes over the height of his hips, regardless of horizontal offset, I now know he is somewhere between the two distances. If the first shot fell more below than the second flew above, I assume it's closer to the latter range, and so on.

Once I know I have the sight set the closest to his actual range, I will then use the knowledge gained (which side of the range and approximately how much) to estimate the offset I need to add to the visual lead calculated from the target. By your third or fourth shot you should only be trying to account for his movement between shots, rather than his movement in general, so it is like taking shots at several stationary targets.

If you are moving, be aware that you have to lead your own movement too. Also don't forget to treat groups of targets as a group. If you get a one shot kill on one, use that to narrow down the range for the others. You know how far away he was, so use that to act as a reference to estimate the other targets' range, and adjust your sights accordingly before beginning to shoot at the next target. You want to narrow down the variables in as few shots as possible, so every little bit of information about the target you can get, helps.

This works for the Steyr in the real world, but may not work here because of different flight times of the bullet. My experience in game has been that it works pretty well at all ranges I fire at, and I have had more than one running man kill at 200m+ with a three round burst from the DP-28 using this technique.
 
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Not really. I'm terrible at guessing ranges based purely on sight. What you do is play a map a lot of times and just memorize the ranges at which you're killing people, creating your own reference points.

Read my post above. It is long, but it explains a much better way to calculate lead and range on a moving target. Give it a try and see if it helps you. You don't need map knowledge, all you need is sight of the target. This technique will tell you everything you need to know while you shoot, helping you to become more accurate with each shot you take at a target, and giving you a greater chance of a one shot kill.

Even if flight times are different, the principle would be the same. Simply find out how much lead you need to give the raised thigh and knee of a target in full sprint at 100m and everything else scales with it. I've found that my way works fine in game for all targets up to 250m with the bolt, semi, SMG and MG. I've never even shot at anyone further away than that - well not specifically at them - so that's good enough for me. When I do this, it works.

By the way, this method is why realistic zoom is important to me. Realistic ballistics means realistic lead and drop and the only way to calculate lead and drop, rather than guess, is to use visual reference points. If they are not drawn on screen at the right size, the technique won't work as well. So when shooting at a moving target, shift-zoom is a must, IMHO.

Oh, and this is also why the targets used in the training mission are wrong. A typical "bullseye" type target is only used for zeroing the rifle, it is not used to practice shooting. You use realistically sized and shaped targets so that you can get used to using the target's body as part of this technique. People often forget that you are always leading a moving target, even if it running straight at you. He will be changing the range, so you need to lead the drop, and the best way to do that is to use his own body as the ruler.

That is why they have the prototypical screaming and charging enemy drawn onto the target. Not for psychological reasons but for technical reasons. Without it, you can't do your job properly. One last thought: centre mass is not the centre of the chest. It is the hips. Aim at the hips and you pretty much can't go wrong. If he's too close you hit him in the head, if he's too far away, you hit the ground in front of him but still have a chance for a ricochet to hit him. You have the most chance to be effective (that is hit the target, rather than the aim point), if you aim at the hips unless you have a very steady and easy shot.

Here is an image to give you an idea of what I mean:

Spoiler!


The blue line is the aim point being aimed at the hips of each target, while the red line is the ballistic trajectory. The bullet flies quite flat, so it never really goes much higher than the head if the aim point is at hip height, so even if they are closer or further away, the bullet will hit the head or hips or somewhere in between. When you look at that picture, you can see why they say "keep your head down" and why the crouch sprint in this game is such a realistic innovation compared to the way most games do it.

Because bullets travel in arcs, the lower profile you have, the harder it is to estimate your range from the fall of shot and other visual references, and the more likely an inaccurately calculated shot will miss you. I'm more impressed by nut shots than head shots, because they mean the person was firing at exactly the right aim point with perfect accuracy. Nothing I could have done would save my life.
 
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sorry for the stupid question, but is there a way to understand what distance is your target?

I think the only way you can do that is through practice :D I've been messing arround the distance aim, and I can already know when to use the 100 or 200 one. And it does really make a difference, specially on Fallen Fighters. I've missed shots with the 100m aim, and after changing to the 200m one I one hit killed the targets instantly.

If you start looking at the kill distance when you kill an enemy, you can start to have a slight idea of how far away your targets are. Unfortunatly, this is also easier said than done. :p
 
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What about moving targets, i aim ahead of the target running and it nearly always misses. The hit reg is general appears to be way below average.

Because just being "ahead" is no different that "sort of aiming". You wouldn't expect to get many hits if you were only sort of aiming in the enemy's direction, which is what you seem to be doing.

You need to calculate the correct lead, not just guess.
 
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I think the only way you can do that is through practice :D I've been messing arround the distance aim, and I can already know when to use the 100 or 200 one. And it does really make a difference, specially on Fallen Fighters. I've missed shots with the 100m aim, and after changing to the 200m one I one hit killed the targets instantly.

If you start looking at the kill distance when you kill an enemy, you can start to have a slight idea of how far away your targets are. Unfortunatly, this is also easier said than done. :p

Your weapon has a built in range finder. The sight will tell you the exact spot the bullet should hit at 100m. So fire the bullet at a target with the sight set for 100m. If it passes over the point you were aiming at, the target is further away. If it passes under, the target is closer.

If it passes under the aim point, meaning the target is further away, change the sight up to the next level and take another aimed shot. Watch the bullet again and see if it hits above or below.

If it was below the first time, but above the second time, it is between the range you fired the first shot and the range you fired the second shot, and the amount it missed by on each shot helps you to estimate if it is closer to one than the other.

There is very little or no guessing involved. You are actually adjusting your fire based on the fall of shot, and you need nothing more than your weapon and your training to do it.
 
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The hitreg is definitely wacky. Im not sure how many of you have noticed, but often if you pop a sprinting target, you will see them drop dead before they even get to where you fired at.

Its pretty annoying, but its easy to visualize the hitboxes being projected infront of the moving target, hence being able to kill someone with a bullet that never even hits them.
 
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