i would be fine with being abel to brace the dp and 34 on the sholder but the recoil while unsuported should be verry high and should take a bit longer than sholdering a smg or rifle
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How to balance MGs and make them overall more desirable class.
- Thread starter aop
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In my opnion this effect makes MG really hard to play now and it's ruining his role ... not only because sometimes you get that effect in places where you can deply the MG , the big problem is that a lot of flat surface from furnitures , tables , some windows and specially debris ... is almost imposible to place the MG the debris , a lot of times you are dramatically triying to quick deplyo your MG not finding a good only to find a bullet in your head .
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I think both MGs are great once you practice. It all depends on the map really. Some maps there are very few suitable locations, but finding them on each map is part of practicing.
MG34 has a lot of kick as it's very light weight and has a slow rate of fire, use very small bursts of 1-3 shots at a time and aim low. The kick send bullets raising pretty rapidly.
With the DP, I find it handles a lot better full auto than the MG so if you can control it let it rip once you're in a good spot. If not using small bursts can also work with it.
MG34 has a lot of kick as it's very light weight and has a slow rate of fire, use very small bursts of 1-3 shots at a time and aim low. The kick send bullets raising pretty rapidly.
With the DP, I find it handles a lot better full auto than the MG so if you can control it let it rip once you're in a good spot. If not using small bursts can also work with it.
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mg class is more team based than individual. your meant to lay down a base of fire for your team to move in. if your exposing yourself then your doing it wrong. everytime i have done well with the class i have been at a decent distance 200m (maybe 150m minimum) and have laid a few bursts out at targets. if you dont kill them then they sure as hell gonna hit the deck or get cover. either way you got the upper hand.
its all about where to position yourself. stay away from cap zones, just allow your team to get to them. take your time and find the right place, dont be too eager to get into the fight or else you'll rush your positioning and you'll end up dead.
easiest map to get the hang of this is fallen heroes.
its all about where to position yourself. stay away from cap zones, just allow your team to get to them. take your time and find the right place, dont be too eager to get into the fight or else you'll rush your positioning and you'll end up dead.
easiest map to get the hang of this is fallen heroes.
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Red orchestra ostfront had it right. The problem isn't in the machine gunner classitself,the problem is that every other weapon has little to no sway. Taking out an MG guy is too easy in RO2 because the other weapons are too accurate! This is not battlefield/call of duty,DO NOT ALLOW MG GUYS TO HIPFIRE. MG guys in Ostfront couldn't hipfire and they were by no means useless. By the way,the all in one CTRL key needs to go! My player character has gone in/out of cover while trying to give an MG guy ammo. I have about 12+ unused keys on my keyboard that can be used for specific actions,binding everything to one key only pleases console players and people who haven't played an fps (other than MW2) on a PC before.
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I agree with Zookerman, the Germans used as many MG42 in infantry squads as possible because they had far higher damage output than Kar98s. In RO2, you can use the Kar98 and get far more kills through its pinpoint accuracy. Filling the air with lead isn't effective when it can't hit enemies at ranges where they can still headshot you back, and suppression isn't effective enough to be useful.
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The "far better damage output" came from number of bullets, not some magically enchanted bullets that made your opponents drunk with color blindness.
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It seems rifle class is overpowered by unflinching all time accurate rifle fire system as many are pointing out.
Under suppression, pinned down soldiers would have increased heart rate interfering with accurate fire in real life situation.
(less stamina for breath control ; harder to land accurate shots)
Current unlimited breath control/ zooming(focus) while aiming down the sight is very unrealistic.
Plus in real life without breath control it's hard to land accurate shots while standing or right after running.
Even in other clean situation like no MG fire upon the player, rifle accuracy should be nerfed in long range a bit, it seems too accurate; too easy;
I really want to see them making firing rifle more realistic and harder just like real life;
Under suppression, pinned down soldiers would have increased heart rate interfering with accurate fire in real life situation.
(less stamina for breath control ; harder to land accurate shots)
Current unlimited breath control/ zooming(focus) while aiming down the sight is very unrealistic.
Plus in real life without breath control it's hard to land accurate shots while standing or right after running.
Even in other clean situation like no MG fire upon the player, rifle accuracy should be nerfed in long range a bit, it seems too accurate; too easy;
I really want to see them making firing rifle more realistic and harder just like real life;
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The fact that they would die if they peeked their heads out was the real reason why they didn't bother sticking their heads out.
You guys keep talking about this awesome rifle accuracy... Guess what? You have the same accuracy with fully automatic fire.
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I think in RO2, rifle is obviously overpowered a bit, thus making MG less effective, less desirable weapon than the counterparts in real life.
Also agree with OP's idea.
Overall weapon, including MG, handling in RO2 is made easier for broader audiences;
Also agree with OP's idea.
Overall weapon, including MG, handling in RO2 is made easier for broader audiences;
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No, handling is how it should've been.
Maps are too small for 64 players so that's why it feels easier to kill your enemies because there are too many of them cramped up in tiny space.
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This.
Not to mention average engagement distances are between 50-100m, an easy shot for anyone even remotely competent with a rifle.
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@Gaizokubanou
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No, handling is how it should've been.
Maps are too small for 64 players so that's why it feels easier to kill your enemies because there are too many of them cramped up in tiny space.
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By this, I can figure that you didn't ever fire real weapon in real life.
Even in close combat, it's somewhat hard to hit target with real weapon if it's long barreled single shot rifle.
Please visit local firing range to actaully know how hard it is to hit target with real weapon.
Firing range provide much better firing position, condition than battlefield so, you can figure.
You need to actually fire weapon before saying things are realistic or not.
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No, handling is how it should've been.
Maps are too small for 64 players so that's why it feels easier to kill your enemies because there are too many of them cramped up in tiny space.
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By this, I can figure that you didn't ever fire real weapon in real life.
Even in close combat, it's somewhat hard to hit target with real weapon if it's long barreled single shot rifle.
Please visit local firing range to actaully know how hard it is to hit target with real weapon.
Firing range provide much better firing position, condition than battlefield so, you can figure.
You need to actually fire weapon before saying things are realistic or not.
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Question, have you ever been to a firing range?
'Cause I was able to hit on or within 3" of a a 1" bullseye standing from 50m my very first time with a large caliber rifle. It's not that hard. My only practice before that had been with trap shooting with a 12 ga shotgun and piddling around with air rifles and .22s.
I mean, you realize that it's not that hard to hit a 4" diameter disk flying in a high trajectory from 25-50 yards with a shotgun from muzzle-down stance, right? Sure, it's not the same as a rifle, but you're tracking a very small, fast target and shooting several of them in the span of less than 2-3 seconds.
It's great fun. I do it almost every weekend. You should try it some time. Firearms are not that hard to handle with the tiniest bit of practice.
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I have to say No.
It sounds like the main gripe has more to do with the game itself, rather than MGs. Plus, the last thing the game needs right now are more Battle Rifles.
It sounds like the main gripe has more to do with the game itself, rather than MGs. Plus, the last thing the game needs right now are more Battle Rifles.
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Home made quote?
Your perception of rifles' overpowerness is mainly due to, as it has been said, the low distances of engagement.. Anything up to 100m is an easy rifle kill, like it should. Same goes for the sway people complain about... at 300-600m it's gonna feel heavier.
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Bumb with pics.
IRL there is absolutely no limitation or reason why you couldn't raise the LMG to your shoulder, aim through it's sights and pull the trigger. I don't think there should be that kind of limitations in a realistic game either. Yeah, long bursts aren't very controllable but atleast we wouldn't have to deal with this **** all the time if LMGs acted like other guns:
Currently both LMGs are very gimped because of these stupid limitations. Every other weapon (with exception of PTRS-41) can be supported on any surface ingame while LMG can be only used in couple a spots selected by coders.
IRL there is absolutely no limitation or reason why you couldn't raise the LMG to your shoulder, aim through it's sights and pull the trigger. I don't think there should be that kind of limitations in a realistic game either. Yeah, long bursts aren't very controllable but atleast we wouldn't have to deal with this **** all the time if LMGs acted like other guns:
Currently both LMGs are very gimped because of these stupid limitations. Every other weapon (with exception of PTRS-41) can be supported on any surface ingame while LMG can be only used in couple a spots selected by coders.
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I share the opinion of the OP that MG'S do not have the vital role they, in my opinion, should have.
First of all i would like to say that TW did a great job and the MG usage is more more fluid that in most other games.If they further improve the useability and make it more fluid combined with some of the suggestions like, steadier recoil it could be the class that it should be.
Here is a list of things i would like to see included:
Many suggestions have been made and some have never been stated.So important ones that i had to made this post.
Suggestions:
1. At the moment,when deploying, the MG get s centered Y-axis wise.This very often takes away the so important time from a MG gunner and he get s shot.So one is aiming at the right spot before deploying, but then after deploying one has to adjust the height from the center of the screen.Please fix this,this is so important!Make it so the MG points where one is aiming at before deploying (Y-axis wise).Try this when you are at a window, see enemys walking below you on the street, deploy and then find yourself aiming straight forward instead of down.
2. More bullet penetration(cars, walls, wood,pallets,firewood stacks,mound/ground/soil)
This is a really big one and something you guys have to understand to get why those guns where so feared.
I know it s hard to describe to someone that a MG with a simular caliber as a rifle has more penetration power, thing is, those MG's penetrate a wall/pallets etc. so long till bullets come through!(e.g. MG42, MG34 actually pretty fast) That s why you don t fell really save behind cover/little walls as you never know if a bullet makes it through.Thats why the germans made those insanly high rates of fire, so the MG gunner can penetrate cover rapidly under sustained fire.In urban settings those were walls, houses, cars etc. on more open maps like fallen fighters it was the ground/snow/soil.The tip of the mounds ppl are prone in so many maps just get shot through with those MG's
So suggestion number two: Generally more bullet penetration plus,and this is especially important, walls/cars/soil etc. after sunstained fire let bullets through.The MG literally eats through the cover.Furthermore you are covered in dust and debris of all the stuff that gets blown away from the cover which makes it incredibly hard to shoot back as you have to twitch and close your eyes with all that stuff flying around.Which leads us to the next suggestion:
3. Heavy supression effect when beeing under fire from a MG to simulate the fear and more difficult circumstances to shoot back as all the dust and debris get s blown away from the cover.
Furthermore a bigger supression radius so a MG gunner can supress multiple persons that are close to each other(Fear factor).Plus a qualitly of supression : The closer the bullets whizzle past you the stronger and longer the effect lasts.Means: the better the gunner shoots and keeps the shots on target the harder you get supressed.This effect should last a little so it is not possible to directly shoot back.
4. Make it deployable everywhere.Often times you can't deploy the MG on the small side of a rectangular cover.E.G. long side of the table/ wall you can deply, short side not.
5. An important factor that has already been mentioned numerous times is the recoil, although the MG34 had strong recoil and the DP28 ofc had some too, it was very controable, even under sustained fire.The difference between what most people say and i say is that I am not saying remove/reduce the recoil but there is a recoil that kicks in after sustained fire which is not controlable making it hard to hold the gun on target during sustained fire.A more steady/evenly recoil that can be controled without becoming stronger and weaker but staying the same would be helpful.
So basically, don t remove the recoil, keep it intense so one has to work that baby but the recoil increase and decrease that kicks in should be removed completely!!!! Evenly, constant recoil.
I have a video for you guys showing that in reality there is almost no barrel rise.I am all for an authentic experience but nothing that destroys gamebalance, however i feel that the MG's do not shine atm and one of their many strengths was the pretty accurate sustained fire.So a class that isn't that strong or popular atm and it can be made stronger while beeing more realistic, hey let s do it
With the unsteady recoil changing from very strong to weaker reacoil and then vice versa again there is almost no way to supress an enemy behind cover (only head showing) with accurate, lethal shots.When the guy is an experienced player and you are supressing with sustained fire he knows that your bullets will be all over the place but not hitting his head.
Have a look:
MG-34 shooting and disassembly - YouTube
First of all i would like to say that TW did a great job and the MG usage is more more fluid that in most other games.If they further improve the useability and make it more fluid combined with some of the suggestions like, steadier recoil it could be the class that it should be.
Here is a list of things i would like to see included:
Many suggestions have been made and some have never been stated.So important ones that i had to made this post.
Suggestions:
1. At the moment,when deploying, the MG get s centered Y-axis wise.This very often takes away the so important time from a MG gunner and he get s shot.So one is aiming at the right spot before deploying, but then after deploying one has to adjust the height from the center of the screen.Please fix this,this is so important!Make it so the MG points where one is aiming at before deploying (Y-axis wise).Try this when you are at a window, see enemys walking below you on the street, deploy and then find yourself aiming straight forward instead of down.
2. More bullet penetration(cars, walls, wood,pallets,firewood stacks,mound/ground/soil)
This is a really big one and something you guys have to understand to get why those guns where so feared.
I know it s hard to describe to someone that a MG with a simular caliber as a rifle has more penetration power, thing is, those MG's penetrate a wall/pallets etc. so long till bullets come through!(e.g. MG42, MG34 actually pretty fast) That s why you don t fell really save behind cover/little walls as you never know if a bullet makes it through.Thats why the germans made those insanly high rates of fire, so the MG gunner can penetrate cover rapidly under sustained fire.In urban settings those were walls, houses, cars etc. on more open maps like fallen fighters it was the ground/snow/soil.The tip of the mounds ppl are prone in so many maps just get shot through with those MG's
So suggestion number two: Generally more bullet penetration plus,and this is especially important, walls/cars/soil etc. after sunstained fire let bullets through.The MG literally eats through the cover.Furthermore you are covered in dust and debris of all the stuff that gets blown away from the cover which makes it incredibly hard to shoot back as you have to twitch and close your eyes with all that stuff flying around.Which leads us to the next suggestion:
3. Heavy supression effect when beeing under fire from a MG to simulate the fear and more difficult circumstances to shoot back as all the dust and debris get s blown away from the cover.
Furthermore a bigger supression radius so a MG gunner can supress multiple persons that are close to each other(Fear factor).Plus a qualitly of supression : The closer the bullets whizzle past you the stronger and longer the effect lasts.Means: the better the gunner shoots and keeps the shots on target the harder you get supressed.This effect should last a little so it is not possible to directly shoot back.
4. Make it deployable everywhere.Often times you can't deploy the MG on the small side of a rectangular cover.E.G. long side of the table/ wall you can deply, short side not.
5. An important factor that has already been mentioned numerous times is the recoil, although the MG34 had strong recoil and the DP28 ofc had some too, it was very controable, even under sustained fire.The difference between what most people say and i say is that I am not saying remove/reduce the recoil but there is a recoil that kicks in after sustained fire which is not controlable making it hard to hold the gun on target during sustained fire.A more steady/evenly recoil that can be controled without becoming stronger and weaker but staying the same would be helpful.
So basically, don t remove the recoil, keep it intense so one has to work that baby but the recoil increase and decrease that kicks in should be removed completely!!!! Evenly, constant recoil.
I have a video for you guys showing that in reality there is almost no barrel rise.I am all for an authentic experience but nothing that destroys gamebalance, however i feel that the MG's do not shine atm and one of their many strengths was the pretty accurate sustained fire.So a class that isn't that strong or popular atm and it can be made stronger while beeing more realistic, hey let s do it
With the unsteady recoil changing from very strong to weaker reacoil and then vice versa again there is almost no way to supress an enemy behind cover (only head showing) with accurate, lethal shots.When the guy is an experienced player and you are supressing with sustained fire he knows that your bullets will be all over the place but not hitting his head.Have a look:
MG-34 shooting and disassembly - YouTube
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Spartanovka wood houses, so many enemys hide at the corners of the wooden houses and one could kill them all if those wooden houses would let bullets through.
Btw. shouldering MG's would be cool, heavier recoil and spray ofc, but the real advantage would be to support the MG on obstacles one cant deploy atm ....
Btw. shouldering MG's would be cool, heavier recoil and spray ofc, but the real advantage would be to support the MG on obstacles one cant deploy atm ....
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The problem is far less direct than you think. The massive problems with the MG are;
1) The damage is weaker than that of a rifle. You have to put more bullets into someone which isn't realistic at all. I have been in many situations where I've fired a fair few bullets into a guy but he can just snipe me with one rifle shot. Simply because I have to put more bullets into him.
2) Bullet penetration. Even if you setup behind something it's most often the case that your "cover" isn't cover at all. When your being fired at (and someone misses shooting at you). Your still exposed. They can still fire at you through the cover...
3) High accuracy of other weapons. It's too easy to shoot targets which arn't moving from a large distance. Which means the machine gunner doesn't have time to setup, unsetup, even shoot. He needs to remain hidden until the right time.
Pro Tip: Use the peak option and when you see a target. Setup then and fire!
4) Suppressing the enemy isn't brutal enough. This ties in with the high accuracy of weapons and how much damage the MG does. Theres literally almost no fear when someone is firing at you. If an MG is firing at me. It's not even 50-50 chance who will kill who. That MG has exposed himself. You can easily pup up and kill him so long as you slightly reposition yourself.
If hes firing to suppress you. You'll soon know when he has to reload.
1) The damage is weaker than that of a rifle. You have to put more bullets into someone which isn't realistic at all. I have been in many situations where I've fired a fair few bullets into a guy but he can just snipe me with one rifle shot. Simply because I have to put more bullets into him.
2) Bullet penetration. Even if you setup behind something it's most often the case that your "cover" isn't cover at all. When your being fired at (and someone misses shooting at you). Your still exposed. They can still fire at you through the cover...
3) High accuracy of other weapons. It's too easy to shoot targets which arn't moving from a large distance. Which means the machine gunner doesn't have time to setup, unsetup, even shoot. He needs to remain hidden until the right time.
Pro Tip: Use the peak option and when you see a target. Setup then and fire!
4) Suppressing the enemy isn't brutal enough. This ties in with the high accuracy of weapons and how much damage the MG does. Theres literally almost no fear when someone is firing at you. If an MG is firing at me. It's not even 50-50 chance who will kill who. That MG has exposed himself. You can easily pup up and kill him so long as you slightly reposition yourself.
If hes firing to suppress you. You'll soon know when he has to reload.
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