Why did the game switch to censored????

[Baine]

Germany is a much more open and free society than the USA today. And on german TV no one goes bat**** when Janet Jackson flashes a nipple. And why is everyone obsessing over that swastika?

And just to explain why swastikas in games are not cool:
Playing as a Wehrmacht soldier is perfectly fine, as these were just like most people in this world, dragged into a war. But playing under the "SS" or Swastika banner is something different. As these symbols stand for a very specific ideology that involves a barbaric combination of eugenics, nationalism and antisemitism.
So, while the German Wehrmacht and Soviet Communist Party both commited crimes without the extra need for a specific ideology, their symbols do not specifically represent mass murder.

And to go in a bit simpler detail:
If you play as a German player it would translate to this: "I am part of the Wehrmacht and I am supposed to shoot russian uniformed soldiers because they are the enemy."
If you would play under an SS or Swastika banner it would translate to this: "ARF! GERMANY OVER EVERYTHING! REST OF WORLD IS INFERIOR"

Quoted for being very well said.

I don't really get what all those people have with their swastikas that are hardly visible anyways. In germany those symbols are not allowed and the reason should be obvious.
I really can only face palm when i see americans reenacting Nazis with SS uniforms etc. because they think they were cool.

But it is no secret that american history classes offer the same information that you would get from a McDonalds shop.

 

[Kranky]

I think many people are confusing the issue. Most folks aren't so irritated that the swastika was removed, so much that the swastika was removed as offensive but the hammer and sickle wasn't. Either leave them both, or remove them both - why favor the communists, who are just as detestable to some, as the swastika is to others?

Marx did not say you have to kill jews. And neither did Lenin probably.

Lenin was a Jew, so this is doubtful.

 

[Nenjin]

But it is no secret that american history classes offer the same information that you would get from a McDonalds shop.

Totally off topic, but as a product of that education system....you're wrong. But we're reaaallllyyy sorry we don't take the time to memorize any of your guy's names over there.

 

[choolio]

an official answer TW? anyting?

if not, you can close down this thread, because this will get us pretty much nowhere ...

 

[Wehrkraft]

Also at what point am I justifying mass murder? What I said was that the concept of communism does not have mass murder written on its flag. Marx did not say you have to kill jews. And neither did Lenin probably.

And neither did Hitler. There is not a single sentence in "Mein Kampf" or the "25-Punkte-Programm" where Adolf Hitler or any other important NSDAP leader demands that anyone should be "killed" or "exterminated". Thus what happened in the German concentration camps had nothing to do with the concept of National Socialism and its symbols, just like Stalin's totalitarian rule hadn't much to do with the original concept of Marxism. Your argument is invalid. And murder is murder, no matter under which flag it is committed. Either generally support historical correct symbols in games or demand censorship in any case and for both sides.

I for one prefer to have historical correct symbols in the game. For both sides. The German soldiers just had the swastika on their chest and their belt buckle. And that had nothing to do with ideology because it applied to every single soldier, no matter if he was a fanatical follower of the F

 

[Mike133]

I'm waiting for an official TWI answer on lack of swastikas

 

[choolio]

I'm waiting for an official TWI answer on lack of swastikas

your word in TW

 

[Das Bose]

If they want to put them in, fine. If they don't want to put them in, fine. They don't affect gameplay so I couldn't care any less if I tried

 

[Dr.Phibes]

So obviously the Finns who were flying during that era and earlier must have been Nazi's as they used a swastika on their aircraft?

Not to mention the Indian's and ancient cultures that used the symbol in its mirrored form all those years ago?

As for in game - it's part of history, this game is based on said history and if it was part of the uniform of the German Army at the time - then so be it.

Oh and to another person - Germany didn't rape europe twice in a row. From a German perspective - you could say that Germany historically has been raped by England, France and the USA a couple times and more (England and France) if you care to read history and learn a thing or 2. This crap goes back to the time of the Roman Empire. Sure there were assholes on the German Side but hands up US, British and Russians from that time period who were not the same?? Ukraine Famines? Purges in Russia and Poland?, Dresden Blitze?, Hiroshima/Nagasaki? and the rest.

Same crap now happening today but in the form of Financial warfare and its effects. Just ask our friends on Wall Street.

Ah, come on. Seeking "Lebensraum" is not a legitimate reason to invade countries.

And regarding your wonderful example of the Finnish Air Force: Guess what, this is a game about a battle fought by German and Russian soldiers, so it's quite probable that swastikas in this game would be associated with the national socialist government of Germany.

 

[DannyNickelov]

Weren't the German's in Red Orchestra: Ostfront 41-45 wearing swastikas on their uniforms IIRC?

 

[Nebelkind]

Germany is a much more open and free society than the USA today. And on german TV no one goes bat**** when Janet Jackson flashes a nipple. And why is everyone obsessing over that swastika?

And just to explain why swastikas in games are not cool:
Playing as a Wehrmacht soldier is perfectly fine, as these were just like most people in this world, dragged into a war. But playing under the "SS" or Swastika banner is something different. As these symbols stand for a very specific ideology that involves a barbaric combination of eugenics, nationalism and antisemitism.
So, while the German Wehrmacht and Soviet Communist Party both commited crimes without the extra need for a specific ideology, their symbols do not specifically represent mass murder.

And to go in a bit simpler detail:
If you play as a German player it would translate to this: "I am part of the Wehrmacht and I am supposed to shoot russian uniformed soldiers because they are the enemy."
If you would play under an SS or Swastika banner it would translate to this: "ARF! GERMANY OVER EVERYTHING! REST OF WORLD IS INFERIOR"

That's an incredibly simplified view, devoid of any nuance or real thought. You're entitled to it though. It's views like yours that make my wife afraid to wear her great, great grandmother's 18th century Blackfoot Indian bracelet in public, because it has a swastika on it. No, Hitler didn't time-travel back into early America and teach natives about the glory of National Socialism.

Symbols only have the power you give them. Banning something serves only to shroud it in mystery and often conversely makes it more popular. Look @ drugs, or America's attempt @ alcohol prohibition.

Whatever man, this is too deep for a videogame forum, and I'm certainly not going to reach anyone here.

 

[DIVZ]

I wonder how the Americans would feel if somebody made a game about 9/11 where you are a terrorist and have to fly it into the WTC.

Imagine being German and being reminded of the horrible things that happend in world war 2 which some people will judge you of for example:

I've have a couple of German friends I myself am Dutch though,
When we play games and we talk online some random people (there is always 1 of them in each game) he will just go crazy about how every German is a nazi and that the Germans should be put in concentration camps.

Just because some people had that thought does not mean everyone has to share that thought in that specific country/region.

I myself do not care about this though but I have Germans friends who sometimes just quit a game because of the people who claim they are all nazi's because they play a game where they have a swatsika on their characters.

-DIVZ

 

[Nebelkind]

I really can only face palm when i see americans reenacting Nazis with SS uniforms etc. because they think they were cool.

And how do you feel when you see people from all over Europe, including Germans, doing the same thing outside the borders of Germany? Is it because their history classes offer the same information you'd get @ a Wienerwald?

When we play games and we talk online some random people (there is always 1 of them in each game) he will just go crazy about how every German is a nazi and that the Germans should be put in concentration camps.
-DIVZ

And you think banning/concealing/censoring history is going to *increase* the level of education about this subject?

 

[Zips]