Pavlov's house and why it is terrible.

[De_willy]

Indeed, in the apartments map the russians can't even spawn in sight of an axis fixed MG enplacement as there are usually some big apartment blocks between both.

On to commisars house: Use the damned smoke grenades! They didn't add those as mere eyecandy as they are usually pretty damned effective if they are used correctly (block enemy LOS). If you deploy smoke between you and the enemy you will die a quick death. Always make sure there is cover (wall, crater, sandbags eg.) between the enemy position and the smoke.
No cover = death in this game.

Gumrak is pretty damned awful; but personally i think the tank part of the game is far from complete. It definatly needs a bigger variety of armored vehicles (I know they are working on it ) and more maps.
At the moment ROII is mainly about infantry combat.

 

[Calibur]

Did you notice the Real war photos tread? Pavlov's house looks exactly the way it did in the real fight. I bet the real Russians didn't qq about balance in ww2.

The real Pavlov's house had about 25 Russians fighting and never losing the building. The German's lost more men against 25 Russians at Pavlov's house than they did taking Paris. Pavlov himself destroyed up to a dozen tanks from the top of the roof.

 

[Poerisija]

Did you notice the Real war photos tread? Pavlov's house looks exactly the way it did in the real fight. I bet the real Russians didn't qq about balance in ww2.

I bet they also didn't lose the fight because they had to attack out of the house for some mystical reason.

Also, if TWI is rolling out balance changes for Pavlov's house, why do you keep insisting it's fine? It's obvious you're wrong if devs are convinced it needs balancing.

 

[luciferintears]

Wow it seems the legionaries are at full scale mobilization in this thread.

OP is right pavlov's house is not only imbalanced but makes no sense; why is it not attack/defend?

also attack/attack maps tend to be kinda clusterf***y; with everyone scrambling to cap points, you dont get a clearly defined "frontline" and you have poeple take pop shots from every which way.

Not that this matters, im pretty sure in 6months no one's gonna be playing the stock maps anyway...

 

[[TW]Swag]

We are looking closely at the balance in all maps, Pavlov's House being no exception. I've personally seen it go either way but that's just my experience which is not up for debate.

Bottom line, we are watching... and will respond... as we always do.

 

[BlackLabel]

A competent allied team can cut the Axis fairly easy and denying them access to the square pretty early. Well placed arty and tanks needed ofc.

As allways a competent team can win any map from any side as it stands now.

 

[ZimbuTheMonkey]

War isn't balanced. I have seen both sides easily win on Pavlov's House.

Great, except this is a video game.

 

[TheGoden]

Great, except this is a video game.

Exactly.

If I wanted to experience the realism of war to the fullest I would enlist in my countries armed forces. However, I play video games to have fun and enjoy myself, and I'm sure everyone here does the same.

 

[Verluste]

War isn't balanced. I have seen both sides easily win on Pavlov's House.

This isnt war. This is a game. Games need to fairly balanced in order to prolongate fun.

 

[Derpus]

I disagree, I enjoy maps that have defensive or offensive biases towards other sides. If you don't have a competent team, then lockdown will kick in. If you can manage to get your team to stick together, it's not too difficult to beat Axis there.

 

[LeftHandPath]

No,no please,if TWI says they are rolling for maps balance,great.But the real unbalance is coming from the players,bad teams full of campers,k/d ratio lovers,s.....this is the real thing.

What do you want? one time i win,second time you win? The balance is there,Germans win hard maps,soviet lost easy maps,viceversa.I have won each map,i have lost each map,i play russians only.A good team is the balance,i like R.O. in this part because four clan mates they not make the final difference to win in R.O.,they need all the team

 

[TheDOW]

It's pretty obvious that the map systemically favors Axis.

One of the Allied spawns is completely exposed to PzIVs who can park themselves on the complete opposite end of the map and allow the Omnisicient hull gunner to aimbot every Soviet that tries to go from spawn, to Pavlov's, to Zab's while peppering the Soviet spawn directly with HE and MG fire.

Axis get a trenchline that goes directly into Pavlov's House which is never a protected area, while Soviet's don't have any clear way to do the same to the Axis main base and if by some miracle they make it, the area is protected.

Zab's House is broken up and exposed only towards the Axis side which makes it a meatgrinder to try to hold Zab's as Allies because of the dense pack of buildings south which provide a ridiculous amount of vantage points for Axis to shoot from into Zab's. These buildings also diminish the effectiveness of a T-34 because they are put into anti-tank rifle and engineer range.

The only way for Soviets to win Pavlov's is if their players are overwhelmingly superior to Axis players, to make up for the map imbalances.

 

[Gergination]

It's pretty obvious that the map systemically favors Axis.

One of the Allied spawns is completely exposed to PzIVs who can park themselves on the complete opposite end of the map and allow the Omnisicient hull gunner to aimbot every Soviet that tries to go from spawn, to Pavlov's, to Zab's while peppering the Soviet spawn directly with HE and MG fire.

Axis get a trenchline that goes directly into Pavlov's House which is never a protected area, while Soviet's don't have any clear way to do the same to the Axis main base and if by some miracle they make it, the area is protected.

Zab's House is broken up and exposed only towards the Axis side which makes it a meatgrinder to try to hold Zab's as Allies because of the dense pack of buildings south which provide a ridiculous amount of vantage points for Axis to shoot from into Zab's. These buildings also diminish the effectiveness of a T-34 because they are put into anti-tank rifle and engineer range.

The only way for Soviets to win Pavlov's is if their players are overwhelmingly superior to Axis players, to make up for the map imbalances.

DOW, we play on the same server all the time and I too have noticed a systemic bias towards Axis on almost every map.

Speaking of protected zones, I had a German sniper sitting inside Pavlov's House (our spawn point) shooting into Zab's house while Zab's house was the contested point. Meanwhile, if I so much as set foot towards a German non-contested point my character has an explosive heart attack and all his limbs detach from his torso. I've noticed this protected zones bias on almost all maps, Allies can't go anywhere they shouldn't be at the time (the way it should be) while Axis gets to run willy nilly.

 

[TheGoden]

DOW, we play on the same server all the time and I too have noticed a systemic bias towards Axis on almost every map.

Speaking of protected zones, I had a German sniper sitting inside Pavlov's House (our spawn point) shooting into Zab's house while Zab's house was the contested point. Meanwhile, if I so much as set foot towards a German non-contested point my character has an explosive heart attack and all his limbs detach from his torso. I've noticed this protected zones bias on almost all maps, Allies can't go anywhere they shouldn't be at the time (the way it should be) while Axis gets to run willy nilly.

Almost every map favours the Axis in some way. It was a noticeable tend with some RO1 maps too.

 

[OnCrack]

the p4 and 5 zergmans alone can win this map pretty easily. unless the zergmans are retarded.

 

[BlackLabel]

Almost every map favours the Axis in some way. It was a noticeable tend with some RO1 maps too.

cant say that after many clanmatches on basicly all maps. Better team wins..hands down.

 

[Nebelkind]

Better team wins..hands down.

Bam. What he said.

 

[Stahlgeist]

Regarding Pavlov's House, I personally don't recall reading about Soviet tank support rolling up in the area. From what I've read, it was a small Soviet infantry force holding off German infantry and armor, not a meeting engagement between equal forces.
Now I'm expecting the "It's balanced for gameplay, it's not a real war " crowd to cue in, but I'm thinking that the map would actually play better if the map better represented the historical aspect a bit more strongly. Instead of the Soviets spawning and having to run around capturing objectives, they should spawn inside Pavlov's House itself. From there, they could move to the neighbouring objectives, instead of spawning further back and having to run past the house.
To add to the intensity, the Soviets could have less respawns to help simulate the lower numbers they had, though obviously, the respawns can't directly mimic the real numbers. Instead of Soviet tank support, they could have more AT rifles and weaponry - which they realistically had, anyway. The German AT weaponry could then be dispensed with, leaving them with tank support and standard infantry.

I feel this would actually play out a bit better, because the Soviet side wouldn't have to deal with the T34's disadvantages while having adequate means to repel armor, and it would still be historically accurate. The whole "equal forces in meeting engagements" style of gameplay you see in a lot of maps gets dull after a while. Identical layouts on both sides isn't required for balanced gameplay.

 

[shaqism]

You think pavlovs house is unbalanced, try playing commissars house

 

[skewp]

The only thing I've noticed and for me is a solid fact is that 90% games are won by German teams. It has nothing to do with maps. Better players seem to gravitate towards the German side. I personally love the Kar98 and always play as a German. Unless the balance is poor so I switch and help the Ruskies out. Every game I played in a German team I won. Maybe lost 2-3 games, and so far I've played more than 30 games in total...if not more.