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Tips to play with the machine gun ?

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#42
Yellonet said:
Just got session banned because some guy on my team decided he was going to run in front of my MG while I was shooting.
How do people think when they run in front of someone that is aiming his weapon? :mad:
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In the real world, this is a possibility too. As I said above, real battles are bloody loud, and before long you will be deaf. Try turning off the sound and run around in a game without it. You'll see just how hard it can be to tell you're being shot at.

That is why this stuff only works properly if everyone knows the basics and sticks to them. There is so much more than what I said in my previous post. Arcs of fire should always be defined and adhered to. You never shoot outside your assigned arc, even if you see an enemy. This leads to less accidents because of target misidentification - if you're in my arc and I don't know who you are and why you are there, you are enemy.

Because you are only meant to cover one small arc, you can spend more time concentrating on the threats in your arc, and less trying to make sure there are none coming at you from other directions. Your squad mates should be covering their arcs too, so one of them will see that enemy and deal with it... you just make sure no one makes it through your arc and you are doing your job.

The real problem that we all have is that other people don't know what to do, so no matter what the game mode, it can feel like a death match where everyone is ganging up on you. You actually feel isolated and exposed, simply because you can't trust your own squad to cover your back, meaning you spend more time covering your own back and less covering your squad.

The gunner has a slightly different role though. You are less confined to an arc because you are actually capable of dominating a larger area than the other squad members, so your job will often be to cover "everywhere else", so to speak. That is why the gunner and the rest of the squad work as two halves of one unit. The gunner covers the others when they move, then they all cover him, when he moves.

The whole idea is that whoever is moving is not shooting. They are not looking for targets but for cover. They will run forward to the next safe cover and then use it to give covering fire for the next person to move. At that point you are in target acquisition mode. Your job is then to kill anything that moves, or at the very least make it stop moving. So if someone starts firing at the runners.. you open up and try to kill them or at least spoil their ability to take an aimed shot as much as possible. The combination of moving targets and incoming fire is usually enough to prevent them getting any kills. Remember though, it is better for your squad to arrive at the enemy position and find everyone dead, than to arrive and find them "suppressed". Once you are close enough, shaky hands don't matter. If the barrel is almost touching you, I could kill you with one hand and my eyes closed. Always shoot to kill, never to just "suppress".

The psychology here is key... the enemy will usually try to kill the guys who are in the open, because they seem to be easy targets. If they are moving they are hard to hit, even if you are not being shot at, so while the enemy tries to kill your squad mates as they run, you can take your time to find and kill them without being shot at yourself. It sort of sounds like using your squad as cannon-fodder, but it is their best interest too. If their movement gives you a chance to kill the enemy, then the next time they move there will be one less person shooting at them.

If someone is in a position to fire a shot at your squad, then you must also be in a position to fire a shot at them. Blasting away randomly is pointless. You want the gun ready and stable when he pops up to take the shot, not bouncing around from shooting at something else at random. You see movement you fire at it, if it moves again, you fire at it, always trying to hit the target. A lot of times your rounds will penetrate right through their cover and get the kill. So always take aimed shots at a target if possible.

Don't get target fixated though. I often intentionally expose my position to get the enemy to concentrate on me. If I know they can't actually kill me, then having them waste ammo on my cover, and not pay attention to anything else, can effectively take them out of the immediate battle. They aren't dead, but the aren't killing anything either, so they are neutralised, even if only for a short time. That might be all you need to let your squad outflank the enemy position and take him out.

There really is so much more. Whole manuals are written on small unit tactics, and the infantryman's role is really just as specialised as the pilot or the tanker. You can't just pick up a gun and run off into battle and expect to survive for very long. Even if you do everything right, you will die... a lot. The idea is to make the other bastard die more.

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By the way, I believe a whole lot of the TK's in this and other games come from the fact people don't cover their own arcs and nothing else, and because they don't think about the arcs other people are covering. They will see a target in front of them and run to the side, trying to get a flanking position, only to pop up in front of one of their own team members in the same place the enemy is coming from. Reactions are key, the first to shoot usually wins, so that guy who is the wrong place, is likely going to get a bullet in the back. It's not the fault of the shooter, but of the runner for being in the wrong place.

There is usually more than one reason for doing something a certain way. Covering arcs and using coordinated movement is about being able to maintain a steady rate of fire on the enemy while being able to advance AND about reducing the opportunities for friendly fire accidents. Every time I spawn I always see the same thing - everyone takes off at full sprint trying to get back to the battle, but they no longer have good info on what is going on, and the front line will have moved, and often they end up running into an ambush. Sometimes it's their own team's ambush, and they end up being TK'd, because they ran into the killing ground when no one was expecting any friendly to be there.
 
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#43
Here is a small tip of the kind that will save your life more often than not.

The following image is meant to represent the use of a wall as cover, but it can be anything like a car or rock or whatever, the concept is the same.

35jcgm8.jpg


#1 Is the wrong way. You never look over the wall if you can help it. When you stand up or crouch behind a wall and try to shoot over it, you are more likely to skyline yourself, making you a more obvious target. If the enemy manages to get to a flanking position, you are totally exposed.

#2 is a neutral way. It's not always bad, but you are still exposing yourself more than necessary from both the front and the flank, and you aren't as concealed as you could be. Things rarely stick out at the top of the side of a wall the way your head is, so it looks unnatural and draws more attention than #3.

#3 is the preferred way to use cover. Around, not over, and from as low as you can get while still being able to bring the weapon onto target. If the enemy flanks you, being prone means you are still making yourself the hardest target you can, and also reduces the chances of a round penetrating your cover and hitting you.

If there is not much cover and you want to bring all your firepower to bear, at each end of the wall have a combat pair do #2 and #3, one prone, one crouched and leaning. two weapons from the same side, and because you're both sticking out a bit, it looks more like the wall is a little longer, than something is sticking out from behind it.

Once again, there is always more than one reason to do something, and in this case, #3 is also preferred as it is the most stable firing position. You will not only be safer, you will be more deadly if you use #3 than if you use #2 and safer and more deadly if you use #2 than if you use #1.

It's the little things like this that make all the difference.
 
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#44
One more quick tip. Here is how to use a window properly:

2n8d0ds.jpg


#1 Shows how it should be done. First it takes a combat pair to do it right (as usual). One each side of the window, far enough back so that not even the weapon is visible from the front. The guy on the left covers the middle and right flank, while the guy on the right covers the middle and left flank. This means that from outside, neither of the shooters can be seen directly from the front, and from a flank, only one can be seen, and he should see you first.

#2 shows the absolutely wrong way to do it. This is just asking to die.

#3 Shows another wrong way, but less so. In this case you are right beside the window with the weapon sticking out. If I see that gun like that, I will simply aim at the wall beside the window and fire. A lot of the time that will get him.

Cover is not just about not being hit, it's about not being seen. If I can't see the weapon, I might not even realise there is anyone firing out of that window, and even though I could kill you, I won't even try.

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Protip: No matter where you are or want to be, always think of your position from the enemy's perspective. What can HE see? Where can he go so that you can't see him? Imagine you were on the other side and think of how you would attack your position. When you think like that, you are getting inside the enemy's head. You are more able to predict what he is going to do and be prepared, than if you are solely thinking about what you can see and where you can go.

In the real world where there isn't a loading screen between battles, you will actually move forward of your position and see for yourself what the enemy can see. You have to see your own defences from the enemy's perspective if you want to see where the weaknesses are.
 
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#47
Hesgad said:
What have those drawings to do ith mg you cant hipfire those things throu windows and be accurate you have to set them up
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Actually, you can. Not AS accurate, but you can. Having said that I believe that TWI have screwed up by making iron sights impossible in any pose other than prone or when supported on cover. The real world doesn't work that way so it is just a stupid handicap given to machine gunners so that other players have a chance. I'm hoping they fix it.

The point is, it's the way you think about things. You will notice that the correct way to cover behind a wall, is also the only way you can use iron sights with the MG without actually using the cover system. Why? Because prone is always the most stable and most concealed body position whether you are in cover or not.

You have more chance of surviving by going prone in the open, than crouching in cover. I know it sounds crazy, but it's true. From the enemy's perspective it is harder to see you and thus harder to shoot you, and yet it is easier for you to see them (looking up at them skylines them) and thus easier for you to shoot them.

In other words, it doesn't matter what weapon you are talking about, the concepts are the same, and these are real world concepts too. The particular game mechanics don't matter. The more realistic the mechanics are, the better these tactics work, but they work in TF2 and ARMA2 and all the games in between.

Another reason why prone is always better than crouched no matter where you are? Shrapnel. If you are crouched behind a high wall so no one can shoot you, that doesn't stop them throwing a grenade over. Being crouched makes it more likely that even a grenade thrown some distance away will kill you. In fact your first instinct when you hear a grenade is not to run, but to go prone. A grenade exploding on the ground sends its shrapnel up and out in a cone. Being prone means you can be closer to it and still be safe.

All you have to do is look at the profile in the top drawing to see what I am talking about. Where I have drawn him standing, he is so obvious you can't miss him. In fact, I bet your eyes are drawn to him, even when you are trying to look at the prone guy. It's only natural. The prone guy looks inconspicuous or even dead, while the standing guy looks tall and threatening. Your brain naturally wants to focus on the more threatening one.

If you walked behind a wall and saw those two guys, one standing one prone, I am 99% sure your first shot would be at the standing guy, and he would die.
 
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#48
Gaizokubanou said:
Yeah, in this game using windows as MG is a suicide.
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Using the cover system in windows is suicide. Going prone on a platform aiming out a window on the other side of the room will get you loads of kills. In fact that is the safest way to do it... as my image shows if you are able to grasp a concept and apply it to related situations.

In my image I draw two guys right beside a window but clearly not visible through this window in any way. Their weapons do not go out of the window at all, and they do not cross behind it. You can not see the weapon unless it is sighted in on you. The MG can do the same thing by lying on a table or a landing or some rubble or wherever he can "deploy" the gun (grrrrrrr...) If we had IS in all poses, the "can't deploy here" thing wouldn't be a problem, it would be realistic. It would simply mean you can't use the bipod and thus will be less accurate because you will suffer from sway and recoil. Oh well fingers crossed.

You can do it, but do it the real way, not using some game mechanic.
 
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#49
KarmakazeNZ said:
Using the cover system in windows is suicide.
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Yeah that was what I was referring to.

Like you said, if you can deploy your MG on something well behind a window THEN look out the window, then it's a good thing to do, but those spots are so few (only notable location I can think of is the Mass Hall from Barracks. where there are plenty of tables away from windows you can use to setup your MG).
 
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#50
When I'm using an MG, I usually try to pick the side that is defending. It's really difficult to play as an offensive machinegunner.

Set up a defensive position. It will definitely take patience, especially when you see your teammates running up and getting kills. But it's very difficult to run, see an enemy, and then deploy the MG. Doing this will likely get you killed pretty often.

Set up in a spot that's just behind the front elements of your team. Whenever the opposing side starts working their way towards you, move back a little bit to a new position. It really sucks to be stuck with the enemy all around you.
 
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#53
Gaizokubanou said:
Yeah that was what I was referring to.

Like you said, if you can deploy your MG on something well behind a window THEN look out the window, then it's a good thing to do, but those spots are so few (only notable location I can think of is the Mass Hall from Barracks. where there are plenty of tables away from windows you can use to setup your MG).
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You can also hip fire if you really need to cover a window and there is no other option. Just remember to keep it to 3 round bursts, and you will see that with the tracer and a few bursts, you should be able to walk your rounds onto a target, and because you are much more concealed, you'll have the time you need to adjust your fire.

I got a 100m hip shot from one window at a guy in another window with the DP-28... and he was trying to shoot me. He just couldn't quite see me and kept missing. It took a whole mag, but I got him. I think the kill shot went through the wall first, but it was hard to tell.

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@Ziggurattus

No problem. I really love this stuff more than the actual "kills". I'd rather get one kill because I used proper tactics and they worked, than ten kills just because I'm good at running and gunning (which I am). It's a lot harder to do it right.

So the more people who know how to do it right, the more fun we can ALL have. The fact people don't really know how to fight a battle is the biggest immersion breaker for me.
 
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#55
Ziggurattus said:
Also i had no idea about shift zoom ahh , just found it now accidently lol .

Phew , was starting to think i was going blind since kept getting killed without really seeing the guy too well and now everything is clear , damn !

Much better now heh
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Oh man... bummer... or should that be awesome! This is what I mean, when you see the world the way it really looks (the shift-zoom) its a lot easier to get those hits. Be aware that it is also holding your breath so if you listen you will hear your breathing pattern.

Other games that have this mechanic force you to release it and then hold it again so you actually manually hold your breath. RO2 does it better by having the player adopt a hold-breathe-hold pattern that you can time, but that you can keep on instead of having to control it directly.

Listen carefully and you will notice that when you actually hold your breath, your sights become rock steady for a second or two. That's when you fire. You do a 3 round burst or two, then wait for the next breathe cycle, then fire another couple of bursts. Then wait, and so on. This has the added benefit of meaning you never have to change the barrel, and that it's harder for the enemy to know when you are reloading or moving, because you often pause even when fully loaded and ready to fire.

It even gives you more targets to fire at because they all think you are moving or something and pop up to take a shot in the gap. (Smart riflemen know to pop up when the gun is firing at something else, rather than when it's not firing at all... but that's another thread).

When you get into the details, RO2 is incredible. It really is. It's just real enough to be ARMA2 standard of realism without being too boring.

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Actually I better add a little bit about how to deal with the pop up riflemen. As I said above, the dumb ones pop up when you are not firing, meaning you can easily kill them. They won't be able to pinpoint you until you fire, and by that time they will be dead. Unless there is another one there at the same time, you are safe. So what if there are more than one?

That is why you do the opposite of what most people think. You are not trying to find cover that gives you a wide field of view, you are looking for cover that gives you a wide field of protection and a hole through which to shoot. You can physically move around to aim at targets to the side while always only being visible (and vulnerable) to enemy who are already in front of your sights. The enemy on either side of the target shouldn't even be able to see your muzzle flash.

That's why you DON'T use the cover mechanic unless you have no other choice. You should be as far back from the hole as you need to be so that you can only be shot by people you can easily shoot, even if they suddenly pop up while you are firing at someone else.
 
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#56
Heh yeah glad i found it , also yeah i noticed the sound holding the breath .

And yeah many more kills now and just overall more time usefulness , only things that are a pita is asking for ammo and either no one really helping or here comes someone sprinting by not even crouching , within 3 seconds i'm dead and no use for the new ammo heh , but still like those guys more than the guy who is next to wich has no interesting in giving ammo even tho i supplied him like 3 times .
 
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#57
Ziggurattus said:
Heh yeah glad i found it , also yeah i noticed the sound holding the breath .

And yeah many more kills now and just overall more time usefulness , only things that are a pita is asking for ammo and either no one really helping or here comes someone sprinting by not even crouching , within 3 seconds i'm dead and no use for the new ammo heh , but still like those guys more than the guy who is next to wich has no interesting in giving ammo even tho i supplied him like 3 times .
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I have to say I come across as preachy and agressive at times, but it's only because I get pissed off at people who immediately jump to the "this game sucks" position before they even ASK if maybe they are doing something wrong.

They basically come in and lay down the gauntlet demanding that the game be fixed or else. So I get my hackles up and start telling them why they are wrong in a pissed off tone. I shouldn't but there you go. Human nature.

So, I'm sorry if I offended anyone. My only goal, really, is to get as many people as possible to play this game the best they can. It means we ALL get to have fun, and there will be more of us to play against.

I just have to try not to get too pissed off at the "haters".

I personally believe that RO2 is the best FPS I've ever played, bar none. Bugs and all. I just think that at th moment the game is being spoiled (at least for me) by all the people who are doing it wrong (and getting owned). I know it may sound weird, by I prefer to play against hard opponents, and at the moment, most people haven't got a clue.

Remember, being ignorant is only a bad thing if it is wilful. The game is SUPPOSED to have a huge learning curve. That's what keeps it interesting for longer. It's like a novel compared to a comic strip.

I am still learning. We all are. It's just that many of us seem to think we know it all already, but don't really know a thing.
 
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#59
Makino said:
One good way to setup the MG is overlooking corners the enemies may come or streets they may cross perpendicular to you. So you almost always get the first shot at them. Facing them head on is like a suicide given the number of windows and things they can pop up and shoot before you can engage them.
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That's good advice for all players. A flanking attack is one of the most successful types of attack. So much so that we almost do it naturally. So placing yourself off to the side of the battle area means you can stop the enemy from flanking, and if they move forward they expose their flank to you.

Sometimes however, the terrain means an "up the guts" assault (as we called it) is going to be more successful, especially if they have MG's covering their flanks.

The main thing to remember is for the final assault, the gun moves to the area the assault will not be coming from. So if a squad is going to flank left and assault a trench, the gunner will stay in the middle and fire on anyone who sticks their head up. If the squad is going for a frontal assault (up the guts), then the gun moves to the flank to protect their flank and to be able to fire on the trench for as long as possible.

In other words, what they teach at officer training school is WHEN to use the various tactics, and WHY you would use them, and it takes a lot longer than learning how to shoot an MG. Most people have the basic skills down, but shooting an MG is not the same thing as the proper employment of an MG to cover a frontal assault, or a flanking assault, or to defend a position or whatever.

Why you do it is more important than how you do it. The latter is determined by what you are trying to do. You can blind fire the MG, so spraying an area should be relatively safe if you are not actually trying to kill anyone, but I've never seen anyone do it. So I assume people are actually trying to shoot at and hit people... but then they go ahead and spray like a madman as if they were blind firing. So they are more exposed but no more accurate.

Why would you want that? If you are going to risk getting shot, make it count. If you don't want to risk getting shot, don't stick your head up - blind fire. Of course everyone knows that if you're blind firing you won't hit anything, so they probably won't be afraid to just run over and nade you. But when I come across an MG spraying rounds out as fast as it can... even if it's pointing right at me, I still assume it can't hit me. 9 times out of 10 I'm right.

Firing long bursts from the bipod is the same as blind firing. It makes a lot of noise but doesn't really do much damage. Who could be afraid of that?
 
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#60
Had a problem with the Mg34 I was shooting a lot and overheated the barrel. I reloaded pressed 6 to change the barrel went to town with a couple more drums overheated again, reloaded pressed 6 couldnt change the barrel. went to the ammo station to get more ammo thinking it would give me another barrel but nothing I could do would let me fire again. Anyone else have input about this besides dont overheat the gun?
 
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