At this part I can't see how the unlock system is supposed to be a good thing.

[FBOTheLiuetenant]

My issue with the unlocks is that they add in rediculous things like the MP-40/2 for all MP-40 users. The balance in RO1 was done through map design, both in creating areas within the map that each class could excell in as well as limiting the number/types of weapons. This made the situations much more interesting than all the weapons being "balanced". Mihajlo, I think you aren't exactly understanding where some of us are coming from. We don't want al the weapons to be balanced, in fact we want just the opposite. We would like to see the option to play on a server that uses classic RO weapon loadouts, which are anything but "balanced".

 

[corrvan]

I'm sorry, I just had to laugh my *** off at "its not realistic that people get better at things over time"
With a game like RO2, you're going to die instantly if someone sees you anyway, doesn't matter if its from 200m with a rifle of an ASSAULT rifle, you were in the wrong place at the wrong time and you would have died anyway. Close quaters is nothing more than who shoots first and more accuratley in terms of the crosshair placement.

 

[hellcat420]

Its a video game it will never be realistic.(well unless you figure out how to make true virtual reality)

 

[FatBassGuy]

Everyone dies in one or two shots.

An 0% levels K98 still kills as much as a 100% upgraded K98.

The only think I don't like is perma-bayonets.

I am sure tripwire has heard us about the bayonets, so NBD.

 

[FBOTheLiuetenant]

I dont think most people object based on the effectiveness of unlocks/hero weapons. It is the fact that some people here want classic style weapon loadouts. As it is all the weapons are available on every map (with AT weapons being the exception), and even more there are things like the MP40/2 that was originally sold to the community as a rare weapon, but are going to be available to every class with an MP40. I speak for myself, though Im sure there are some who'd agree, that class selection made things very interesting in RO1. So far there have been very few times when I've had to be a rifleman. There is almost always a class available that has an SMG or semi-auto.

 

[Empty Box]

There's a good reason I don't play CoD.

When I try to go online, I get insta-gibbed by a guy with a gun and upgrades that I can't get who calls me a newfag for not being as obsessive as he is about the game.

This is -not- fun.

Two things. CoD community is douchey as hell. Other thing is in every last CoD (CoD4 and up) you get quite possibly the BEST of everything by level 20. In a couple hours you have the absolute best weapons, bar none. MP5 / M16 / AK47, MP40 (sigh), MP5k / M4, FAMAS. CoD has a fairly fair unlock system in that they give you the most effective perks / guns first.

You die because you suck at the game. RO =/= CoD =/= CS =/= TF2 =/= BF.

However, one of my main gripes with BC2 was indeed the unlock system - too short, too potent, too stacked towards the top end.

I destroyed when I came to PC BC2, because I knew the game. Despite having crap perks and stuff. Why? Because I am decently competent at that game in general. Doesn't apply to this game, nor any other.
______________________________

Unlock system is sorta worrying. I do agree though, I dont really understand how the unlocks are a good thing - unless not using unlocks has a plus. Why NOT use a PPSh with a drum mag once you have? Goodbye stick mag, never see you again. Why not use a Bayo? Honestly though, it's not like you need 70 bullets to kill a guy. It allows more aggressive play or simply less reloading, doesnt actually make you kill better.

I do think the soldier leveling has potential but wont affect much. If you suck, you will still suck. If you are good, it isnt going to matter much at all. I'd suggest ignoring them as a whole if they bug you. Forget it's even there, I haven't found it hard to do tbh.

 

[RoastinGhost]

agreed with the OP entirely.

'the effect will be small' some defend the unlock system with. Ok. But how does that make it a good effect? 'bad but small' is not the same as 'good'.

My concern is for immersion-breaking achievement chasing, and for all of the poor new guys we're trying to bring in. They'll be welcomed to RO2 by players who not only know what they're doing but are physically superior and better armed.

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy the game and Tripwire has my utmost respect. It's just that I've been complaining about this for a while

 

[Josef Nader]

Two things. CoD community is douchey as hell. Other thing is in every last CoD (CoD4 and up) you get quite possibly the BEST of everything by level 20. In a couple hours you have the absolute best weapons, bar none. MP5 / M16 / AK47, MP40 (sigh), MP5k / M4, FAMAS. CoD has a fairly fair unlock system in that they give you the most effective perks / guns first.

You die because you suck at the game. RO =/= CoD =/= CS =/= TF2 =/= BF.

Oh, I'll freely admit that I suck. My point was that I lost the desire to get good the first two dozen times I got killed by weapons that were stacked against me. I was already having to learn the maps, figure out game mechanics, and deal with people who had spent a lot more time developing the skills they need to win. I found it frustrating that, on top of that, I'm stuck with this pissing little peashooter while they're running around with tacticool assault rifles and ****. I never even leveled up past the first few levels, as I only managed to get a handful of kills the whole time (plus the dicky community didn't help) before I got frustrated, ragequit, and went back to TF2.

Long story short, veteran players don't NEED any more advantages. They're already veteran. They're far better than the noobies at the game already. Giving them hardware that out-classes the noobs is just another nail in the coffin for longevity.

Unlock system is sorta worrying. I do agree though, I dont really understand how the unlocks are a good thing - unless not using unlocks has a plus. Why NOT use a PPSh with a drum mag once you have? Goodbye stick mag, never see you again. Why not use a Bayo? Honestly though, it's not like you need 70 bullets to kill a guy. It allows more aggressive play or simply less reloading, doesnt actually make you kill better.

I do think the soldier leveling has potential but wont affect much. If you suck, you will still suck. If you are good, it isnt going to matter much at all. I'd suggest ignoring them as a whole if they bug you. Forget it's even there, I haven't found it hard to do tbh.

Again, if it's a matter of player skill, why offer veteran players an additional edge that's going to widen that margin? It's bad for the long term value of the game, at least I would argue. A lot of the early adopters are going to play for a while, get bored, and move on to other games. The community is going to shrink over time. They can offset this through sales and the like, bringing in a huge influx of new blood. RO2 is already a pretty punishing game, that extra margin could mean the difference between someone having enough fun to stick with it or getting frustrated to the point that they uninstall the game and never look at it again.

Tell me if I'm being alarmist here, 'cause I really am trying to think of a way that this could be beneficial, but I'm just not seeing any sort of bonus from having this.

EDIT:

Now, if the bonuses were superficial, that's another story. I do quite enjoy lording my Hattes over the F2P'ers in TF2, and I would certainly enjoy lording my rugged, manly appearance and my stolen Hitler Youth knife over the pathetic noobies, but they'll just be asthetic knick knacks and war trophies that can set me apart from the newbies so they show me the respect I deserve as a long time player. I'm already better than them, being able to show it off is nice. I just don't want the unlocks to give me an unfair edge.

 

[Zoring]

MP40/II is probably something if unfixable that would stop me playing the game. I don't want to be a whiner or melodramatic in anyway, and i still have faith in tripwire to make these things at the very least server modifiable but i play RO because of the historical authenticity and the grittiness, which is completely compromised if everyone has a fictional gun.

It's as bad as the red-dot scopes in CoD much as I hate to say that, and i really do. Those are less of an impact on gameplay than a 64 round MP40!

All that said, it is still my opinion that it's ok as a HERO ONLY weapon. MP40/II, Mkb42, MG34 Saddle drum, Nagant Silencer, hero only items please. Give us a server option for it.

 

[Leosaurus]

When I can shoot you on Fallen Fighters, with a 0 level Mosin, squinting at my screen after manually adjusting my sight range to 200 meters and dropping you with a shot to center mass with some minor range estimation off of visual cues...

As a real, US Army infantry veteran, I am satisfied. I don't care about doofy unlock systems, when I can do something like above in a game while some poor sap is plunking away at me because he can't estimate range, I am satisfied.

The unlock system is a non-issue to me...except for my bayonet. I like it a lot. My bayonet makes me warm and fuzzy on the inside.

-Leo

 

[NightriderAOF]

Not only can new weapons and improvements get unlocked, your character's performance also increases over time. This is not realistic, not fun and not fair.

Yes it is. More veteran soldiers have more experience with their weapon, and would be the first choice to have access to any rare weapons issued to their unit.

RO2 isn't supposed to be fair. Fair isn't realistic.

 

[NightriderAOF]

Oh, I'll freely admit that I suck. My point was that I lost the desire to get good the first two dozen times I got killed by weapons that were stacked against me. I was already having to learn the maps, figure out game mechanics, and deal with people who had spent a lot more time developing the skills they need to win. I found it frustrating that, on top of that, I'm stuck with this pissing little peashooter while they're running around with tacticool assault rifles and ****. I never even leveled up past the first few levels, as I only managed to get a handful of kills the whole time (plus the dicky community didn't help) before I got frustrated, ragequit, and went back to TF2.

Long story short, veteran players don't NEED any more advantages. They're already veteran. They're far better than the noobies at the game already. Giving them hardware that out-classes the noobs is just another nail in the coffin for longevity.

Again, if it's a matter of player skill, why offer veteran players an additional edge that's going to widen that margin? It's bad for the long term value of the game, at least I would argue. A lot of the early adopters are going to play for a while, get bored, and move on to other games. The community is going to shrink over time. They can offset this through sales and the like, bringing in a huge influx of new blood. RO2 is already a pretty punishing game, that extra margin could mean the difference between someone having enough fun to stick with it or getting frustrated to the point that they uninstall the game and never look at it again.

Tell me if I'm being alarmist here, 'cause I really am trying to think of a way that this could be beneficial, but I'm just not seeing any sort of bonus from having this.

EDIT:

Now, if the bonuses were superficial, that's another story. I do quite enjoy lording my Hattes over the F2P'ers in TF2, and I would certainly enjoy lording my rugged, manly appearance and my stolen Hitler Youth knife over the pathetic noobies, but they'll just be asthetic knick knacks and war trophies that can set me apart from the newbies so they show me the respect I deserve as a long time player. I'm already better than them, being able to show it off is nice. I just don't want the unlocks to give me an unfair edge.

Didn't kill Bad Company 2 or any other FPS with veterancy based unlocks. You seem to think that all veteran players will be running around with MkB42's and SVT40's, but what you fail to understand is that those are class slot locked, so don't expect to see more than one or two in a match.

 

[Empty Box]

Oh, I'll freely admit that I suck. My point was that I lost the desire to get good the first two dozen times I got killed by weapons that were stacked against me. I was already having to learn the maps, figure out game mechanics, and deal with people who had spent a lot more time developing the skills they need to win. I found it frustrating that, on top of that, I'm stuck with this pissing little peashooter while they're running around with tacticool assault rifles and ****.

If we are talking CoD here, it's not the weapon though. You seem to think it really makes a difference, when you factually get the best weapons off the start, open for anyone. BC2? My favorite AR is the AEK971, and it has been since that game launched. It's a default weapon. I'll admit it, I loved CoD at one point, that said I don't play or treat other games the same. But in each one since unlocks, one of the last guns is FACTUALLY the worst in the game, each time. It has zero to do with not having fair weaponry.

It isn't the weapons. It's the fact you suck at the game and the weapon is an easy out. Just the way blaming weapons here will become - look at the MP40 threads already. Honestly, in this game it makes next to no difference, you don't need 64 bullets to kill one dude, you need 1.

Realism blemish, hell yea. If someone shoots 63 bullets at you and gets you on 64, well... you gotta be oblivious. If he needs 31, again, oblivious. Does it really matter for gameplay, outside realism?

I understand what you are saying in terms of being bad for the newbies, but honestly, shouldn't they get the same short end that we get? You start "raw", if you continue you can become better as a soldier, and as a player. It's incentive to get better. Pay your dues, that simple. If you are good, you will do good, if you suck, here is some incentive.

 

[Stahlhelmii]

I would assume this came about from some sort of focus group, survey(s), etc. conducted among FPS players. Problem is, a majority of them are very likely COD'ers and/or bc2 players who want the rewards they are used to receiving for playing. They want to show everyone how great they are as they blast newbies with weapons the newbies may not even be around long enough to earn.

I agree with those who have said it's unfair to make the uber players even more uber by giving them guns already lesser players have no opportunity to use. The pwners pwn supreme. I promise you, that will get VERY old for many average players, VERY quickly.

 

[DarkWolf]

Yes it is. More veteran soldiers have more experience with their weapon, and would be the first choice to have access to any rare weapons issued to their unit.

RO2 isn't supposed to be fair. Fair isn't realistic.

That's a rather silly statement.

For all the realism in the game, at the end of the day this has been, still is, and will always be a game. Putting raw realism in front of fun/balance is, in my opinion, never an acceptable way to go.

 

[Graphic]

Wait...the MP40/II is actually in the game?

Anyway I have to agree with Empty Box. Unlocks are extremely overrated by people who try a new game with them and don't kick *** from the first map. The early guns are, almost without exception, just as capable as the higher end ones, in the hands of someone with good reflexes. The last assault rifle you unlock in BC2, the M16, has exactly the same damage as an AEK-971, the first gun. Because the M16 is locked into burst fire it's actually worse.

Same goes for every other game with unlocks I've played. Especially Call of Duty 4. My favorite guns in that game were the MP5 and AK-47, some of the earliest stuff you get. I didn't even use the red dot sights.

The reason the vets in these games rape the new players is not because they have unstoppable kit loadouts, its because they are a vet and you are a new player. The suggestion that the only reason you're not on equal footing with people who play 50 hours a week when you first pick up these games is because their unlocks reeks of overestimation of your skill and is an obvious excuse.

 

[Fiennes]

The reason the vets in these games rape the new players is not because they have unstoppable kit loadouts, its because they are a vet and you are a new player. The suggestion that the only reason you're not on equal footing with people who play 50 hours a week when you first pick up these games is because their unlocks reeks of overestimation of your skill and is an obvious excuse.

This actually makes a lot of sense. The fact that a single shot from a rifle is generally going to put the other guy in to a grave completely negates his honour level, his kit load-out, and how many hours he or she have put in to the game. He's dead, plain and simple.

 

[Empty Box]

This actually makes a lot of sense. The fact that a single shot from a rifle is generally going to put the other guy in to a grave completely negates his honour level, his kit load-out, and how many hours he or she have put in to the game. He's dead, plain and simple.

Unless when ranked up it does change that dynamic.... though I highly doubt that. IMMA HERO, I EAT 8MM MAUSER FOR BREAKFAST OM NOM NOM NOM OM NOM.

Don't expect that to happen at all. I really expect a grand total of 0 times where I'll say "That guy didnt die / I died because he was leveled up higher". You either did something to get shot or didn't hit your shot in the first place. Don't think the guy is suddenly going to have an MG42 RoF Mosin while tanking bullets like the TF2 heavy on an ubercharge.

Shoot em in the head and call em dead.

I'll put it this way - am I incredibly cheap for using manual bolting purely because it seems like it goes a little bit faster? Cause I most certainly do, it's not a challenge, it's not more immersing... just something I do to get a bit of performance edge. Not that I take it seriously though.

 

[Scarf Ace]

Yes it is. More veteran soldiers have more experience with their weapon, and would be the first choice to have access to any rare weapons issued to their unit.

RO2 isn't supposed to be fair. Fair isn't realistic.

Sure, fair isn't realistic. You know what also isn't? Experience transcending death and being forced to unlock standard issue equipment.

Wait...the MP40/II is actually in the game?

Anyway I have to agree with Empty Box. Unlocks are extremely overrated by people who try a new game with them and don't kick *** from the first map. The early guns are, almost without exception, just as capable as the higher end ones, in the hands of someone with good reflexes. The last assault rifle you unlock in BC2, the M16, has exactly the same damage as an AEK-971, the first gun. Because the M16 is locked into burst fire it's actually worse.

Same goes for every other game with unlocks I've played. Especially Call of Duty 4. My favorite guns in that game were the MP5 and AK-47, some of the earliest stuff you get. I didn't even use the red dot sights.

The reason the vets in these games rape the new players is not because they have unstoppable kit loadouts, its because they are a vet and you are a new player. The suggestion that the only reason you're not on equal footing with people who play 50 hours a week when you first pick up these games is because their unlocks reeks of overestimation of your skill and is an obvious excuse.

The very problem with RO2's system is that it's not sidegrades you're getting. Every single unlock is a direct improvement, and there's stat levelling too. What's even worse is that it seems that equipment that was standard issue will take as much effort to unlock as things that may have never even been in Stalingrad.

 

[Mihajlo Pavlovic]

Sure, fair isn't realistic. You know what also isn't? Experience transcending death and being forced to unlock standard issue equipment.


The very problem with RO2's system is that it's not sidegrades you're getting. Every single unlock is a direct improvement, and there's stat levelling too. What's even worse is that it seems that equipment that was standard issue will take as much effort to unlock as things that may have never even been in Stalingrad.

Someone here argued that they like to think that when they die they control another person in the war, well experience here just means that instead of being placed in a new recruits body, you get placed in a more vetted person.