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The zoom is RIDICULOUS

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#61
Utarefson said:
On topic: I haven't experienced any tunnel vision in real life, but i have adhd-pi, so i probably won't experience that extreme focusing anyway.
But i totally agree on normal videogame view&pixelhunt being unrealistic.
Click to expand...

Take a book, go outside, look at a tree or building that is a few hundred meters away. Now open the book to a random page and hold it so you can see the book off to the side.

Continue to focus on the far object and attempt to read the book.

Two issues will fight against you:
1. Your eyes have not focused for distance on the book. This will make it hard to make out the letters.
2. You will be attempting to look at it from off center. Human vision is fairly weak around the edges where it will detect movement more than it will detect detail.


The zoom levels compensate for for the fraction of detail available on the screen as compared to real life. A computer display is made up of pixels, which is fine for displaying things that are close up to you. However they are no so fine when displaying things at realistic distances due to the fact that stuff appears smaller at longer distances. So, you take a 1m square and start moving it farther and farther away from you. In real life you can still see this square at several hundred meters. On a computer screen it rapidly turns into a single pixel, and you can no longer tell the difference between it and a pixel that is simply bright.

"Zoom" levels are not "Zooming into unrealistic levels", but rather "Standard" view is Zoomed Out to allow the player a realistic peripheral vision.



So, in summary: You do not "Zoom in to show unrealistic detail", but rather you "Zoom in to restore realistic detail at distance."
 
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#62
I love it, and think it feels pretty realistic.
Managed a kill of 141m - which isnt THAT far. Then the target was very small in "zoomed" mode. If "unzoomed" it was impossible to see the target.
If you don't want "zoom", you can forget any realistic fighting in distances 80m+.
Everyone running around killing each other at point-blank range, ie "unzoomed", is the unrealistic part here...
 
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#63
You can zoom like this:

12514226810CtOrW.jpg
 
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#64
Just look at the Arma games, its a miltary simulator, and used by armies over the world, if it was so unrealistic, surely it wouldn't be in there.

If you don't like the zoom, fair enough, but don't say its unrealistic. Playing the game as is, is unrealistic since you have trouble hitting something 20 metres away.
 
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#65
Had a few "long distance" kills with my Mg-34 now. It was pretty hard to spot, identify the target as enemy and then it took 3 well aimed bursts to take out for good. Range? 190 meters.
In boot-camp, I had to hit a target the size of a head at 300 meters with the very first shot I ever fired in my life. I hit.

As far as I am concerned, the zoom is more than justified.
 
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#67
There is more to it than that. I remember trying to convince the dev team about this (along with numerous others) some years ago. And we succeeded. Let me try to rehash.

The abilities of a human soldier's vision
FoV: 180 degrees (almost the entire front half of you from left to right).
Resolution: Very high.

The abilities of the average gamer's display setup
FoV: 30 degrees (as seen from the eye of the gamer).
Resolution: Limited (pixels are large enough to be seen individually. The reason we have anti-aliasing in graphic options).

The display is the window into the game world. It is a small window. How can you simulate the real world peripheral vision? Can set Fov to 180. But then things look really distorted being squeezed into such a small 'window', and things won't be to scale, looking tiny and far away. Like looking through the wrong end of binoculars in a way. Would be as near sighted as a senile mole.

Okay then, how about getting things to scale, so they look as large and far away as they would in reality? That would be setting FoV to 30. Hardcore tunnel vision. Can't see where you are going or what is going on. And even then you can't see as much detail as you would in reality (the lacking resolution of the display).

Okay then, how about getting things to the same level of detail as reality? (important for spotting and shooting at stuff far away). Setting FoV 20 maybe. Extreme tunnel vision etc.

These three are all needed (more or less) at different situations. Best solution? Allow the gamer to switch between them. The side effect is that the FoV can be seen changing back and forth. But until we get huge projectors or VR glasses that can fill 180 degrees of our vision while having super resolution, this is the best compromise.

Now is it understandable that "x4 ACOG in my eye" is not correct. There is no natural default FOV that simulates the eye on our gaming rigs. Might as well say that "we are zooming out unrealistically and should always be in the most zoomed in view"

The problem will keep getting less severe the larger and better our displays are (and the closer we sit to them).

EDIT: The 'sprint key' zoom that also holds the breath is over the top effective in my opinion. It's not a problem of the zoom as we covered that. It is that the aim becomes so very steady even with other circumstances (like standing or tired) that aiming is probably a bit easier than reality. I also don't like having to press and hold all these different buttons at the same time.
 
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#69
I just dont like how you have to click an extra button.

would have been nice to say, right click to ads and then while ads hold the right mouse to zoom; relase to go back to normal. That is a bit like arma2.

This games controls are not streamlined; too many goddamn clicks to do anything.

click button to take cover
click button lean out
click button to ads
click button to zoom
click button to fire
click button again to stop zooming
click button again to leave ads
click button again to stop leaning out
click button again to detach

when i have 12 noobs running at me with their uber smg's i end up confusing myself and clicking the wrong button so i end up detaching from cover but i'm still in ads :/
 
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#71
Games use a higher FOV than eyes have in reality. In other words, a fair amount of the eye's field of view is 'compressed' to fit on a smaller screen. This makes objects appear smaller in game than they would in reality at the same distance. Most games are played at 55-75 degrees vertical FOV, but for apparent sizes to be equal to reality, an FOV of 30-40 degrees would be required. A game would be very hard to play at that FOV unless you had a massive screen or a dome. Iron sight zoom tries to compensate for this.

Edit: A bit too slow. ;)
 
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#73
MikkOwl said:
There is more to it than that. I remember trying to convince the dev team about this (along with numerous others) some years ago. And we succeeded. Let me try to rehash.

The abilities of a human soldier's vision
FoV: 180 degrees (almost the entire front half of you from left to right).
Resolution: Very high.

The abilities of the average gamer's display setup
FoV: 30 degrees (as seen from the eye of the gamer).
Resolution: Limited (pixels are large enough to be seen individually. The reason we have anti-aliasing in graphic options).

The display is the window into the game world. It is a small window. How can you simulate the real world peripheral vision? Can set Fov to 180. But then things look really distorted being squeezed into such a small 'window', and things won't be to scale, looking tiny and far away. Like looking through the wrong end of binoculars in a way. Would be as near sighted as a senile mole.

Okay then, how about getting things to scale, so they look as large and far away as they would in reality? That would be setting FoV to 30. Hardcore tunnel vision. Can't see where you are going or what is going on. And even then you can't see as much detail as you would in reality (the lacking resolution of the display).

Okay then, how about getting things to the same level of detail as reality? (important for spotting and shooting at stuff far away). Setting FoV 20 maybe. Extreme tunnel vision etc.

These three are all needed (more or less) at different situations. Best solution? Allow the gamer to switch between them. The side effect is that the FoV can be seen changing back and forth. But until we get huge projectors or VR glasses that can fill 180 degrees of our vision while having super resolution, this is the best compromise.

Now is it understandable that "x4 ACOG in my eye" is not correct. There is no natural default FOV that simulates the eye on our gaming rigs. Might as well say that "we are zooming out unrealistically and should always be in the most zoomed in view"

The problem will keep getting less severe the larger and better our displays are (and the closer we sit to them).

EDIT: The 'sprint key' zoom that also holds the breath is over the top effective in my opinion. It's not a problem of the zoom as we covered that. It is that the aim becomes so very steady even with other circumstances (like standing or tired) that aiming is probably a bit easier than reality. I also don't like having to press and hold all these different buttons at the same time.
Click to expand...

This says it all.
 
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#75
Shift zoom is totally ridiculous. Not even CoD or BF have such an unrealistic feature.

When the devs talked about the eye's "natural zoom", I figured they meant a slight zoom-in when you go to ironsights, corresponding to a decrease in FOV. I'm fine with that - its realistic, it prevents pixel hunting, etc. But the current everyone-has-telescopes-for-eyes zoom is absurd - either it needs to be removed or accuracy of the weapons at long range needs to be reduced. Basically everyone is a sniper at this point. I guess making the weapon sway would be a more realistic and less frustrating feature than arbitrary cone fire.

At least remove it from the default Realism ruleset so you can get some feedback.
 
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#77
Hi guys,

Some of you may have seen me posting about, stating that the new shooting mechanics all in make it easier to hit the target.

Although that might well be the case, after having played the large outdoor map I am now fully behind the shift zoom. The shift zoom as has been said many times (and as I've always understood) shows you how you would see things if you were literally there. This zoom cannot be reduced in the settings (like the one when you go into ironsights) and is ever present. This zoom even works when you ARE NOT iron-sighting. Point being here is that it is a necessary feature from a realism point of view.

Anyway, I'm now of the opinion that although it might well be easier to hit the target at shorter ranges (100m or less), the shift zoom is absolutely necessary when shooting at larger distances. I'm officially a convert.

Huzzah.
 
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#78
I don't like the zoom feature. For me, it's not a discussion about reality or no reality. It's just a way I don't want (people) to play. I was glad with the aiming in RO / DH. We have to accept, that there are different opinions about this feature and I totally understand both supporters and slashers. I hope there will be servers without this option, so everyone's happy.
 
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#79
LegTaste said:
Just look at the Arma games, its a miltary simulator, and used by armies over the world, if it was so unrealistic, surely it wouldn't be in there.

If you don't like the zoom, fair enough, but don't say its unrealistic. Playing the game as is, is unrealistic since you have trouble hitting something 20 metres away.
Click to expand...

Correction, that's VBS - NOT ArmA. Whether VBS has it or not i can't tell since it's not available for purchase unless you are filthy rich.
 
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