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Should only the player with the fastest PC get SL, Mg, Sniper? NO - A Solution!

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#21
Haven't read the entire thread, but here is my idea: you need to EARN the sniper rifle just like in real life, where the best riflemen becomes the Designated Marksman. This can be done in two ways: round based, or through Hero unlocks.

Round based: the round begins without a sniper. If you want to become the sniper, you must spawn as a rifleman and be accurate with your bolt-action rifle. The game counts the amount of shots you fire and the kills you make. Only iron sight kills get counted, the hipshots are ignored. The better your kill/shot ratio, the higher your "Marksman Score" becomes. After 10 - 15 minutes of gameplay and between spawns, the rifleman with the highest kill/shot ratio gets awarded the sniper rifle, but he can also choose to give it to one of the top three riflemen in his team. If he chooses to become the Designated Marksman (yes, I hope TWI gets rid of the term "Sniper" once and for all), he gets the scoped rifle for the rest of the round AND the next round, because some rounds end very quickly and it would be a shame if you could only be the DM for 5 minutes.

This solves the "guy with fastest PC problem" and it doesn't have any random elements either. It rewards skill and encourages people to become better with the bolt-action rifles.

Hero unlocks: more or less the same idea, but it takes much more time to accumulate a high enough Marksman Score to unlock the sniper rifle, and the unlock is permanent, unlike the round based unlock which is temporary. Let's say you need a Marksman Score of 80%: 80% of the rifle shots you fire need to result in a kill. The shot cap might be... let's say 100 shots. Or 500. Now, here is the problem: in the beginning you will most likely suck at the game, so it wouldn't be fair to count all those misses into the Marksman Score. This could be solved by making the Marksman unlock system OPTIONAL. Every player begins the game NOT being in the Marksman program, but if you think you are good enough with the bolt-action to become a Marksman you can select an option in your profile, and the game begins counting your Marksman Score. If you fail, your Marksman Score gets reset to 0%, but you can try again any time you want.

I fully realize that both of these ideas would require a lot of work to be implemented, and that people might hack to get the unlock. But I'm just planting seeds... you could even create such a system for the machine gunner and officer roles.


Thoughts?
 
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#22
I personally don't like systems where you have to prove yourself for 15 minutes (most rounds actually take 15-20 minutes). And then be able to play with the thing of choice. Return to castle Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory was like that. If something is made stats based I personally would prefer it to be based on persistent global stats (good systems will rate old results less strongly than new results). So you don't have to start all over every time you start a new map.

The issue with persistent stats, even though you will get something close to the people that would do the best with said weapon actually using the weapon. Is that new players, and weaker more casual players would be left out of the fun for ever.

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Personally I think every player should have a fair chance of weaponry, new or old, skilled and less skilled. Especially for new players it would be frustrating if they could never get to try out all the weaponry.

However I would prefer to have a training like America's Army for classes, where a player wouldn't be able to select a class till he's finished his training/tutorial on how to do it. (of course if you finish the training you should get an achievement so you won't have to redo the training every time you reinstall or play on a different computer).

Like for example as a squad leader, you would get some quick info about how to lay down the most effective smoke, how to call arty and how to issue commands etc. And after you got that, you would receive the "Trained Squad Leader" achievement, and could select the squad leader in on-line games.

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And next to that something I personally would like to see but most people hate, is the ability for a server Admin to decide min- and max- level of stats based skill.

So on new player servers, an Admin can decide to not allow super strong players that come in and trounce all new players ruining their fun. And on servers with strong players a server Admin could decide that no new players should come in ruining their fun.

And of course the majority of servers would be run exactly as the servers are just like now allowing everybody to play against everybody, weak or strong. But for me games are generally the most fun when I can play a game against equally skilled opponents. (I hope that servers will show relative difficulty like quake live as well)

You can never determine stats perfectly, some are a bit stronger than their stats say, some are weaker. However overall the general skill match of players should lay much closer if you could exclude players based on stats.
 
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#23
Reise said:
I think those suggestions are still prone to giving others an unfair advantage. Put timers on the classes and people will just wait. Reset them after a round ends and people will just scramble to click "ready" first.

TBH I've been thinking about a pooling system. If a class is limited, have a button that lets you enter a pool of others who want to play it. When it reaches a certain threshold, say 5-10 players, the class will be given to a random player in the pool when the current holder of the class dies.
Click to expand...

I like a solution similar to this;

Besides each class in the selection menu there should be three things.

First an 'Apply' button. You can apply for one class from the list. Immediately besides that is the number of other applicants, and again besides that the percentage chance of you getting the class. The better your rank or stats related to that class the better chance you have receiving it compared to others applying. You should be able to apply for 2-3 things, and whatever class you receive you will stay with it for the remainder of the map. When a class opens up due to someone leaving it can be applied for in the next 30 seconds (this is a better system then suiciding to make sure you get the new role).

The default round start timer should really be 1-2 minutes as well. This is an issue in ROOST not just because of class selection but it skews the balance of the first round since there is very little chance that reinforcements will run out.

The role selection would look something like this;

[Machine Gunner] [0/2] [Apply!] [4] [45%] [0:35]

So

[Role name] [RolesTaken/RolesAvailable] [Apply] [#ofApplicants] [Selection chance] [Timeleft]

Maybe a bit too complicated but it works right?
 
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#26
what a selfish person you are, Flogger23m! :eek:


very good imput, Smokey! I included your ideas in my first post! btw, I didnt get what you mean with this:

smokeythebear said:
The default round start timer should really be 1-2 minutes as well. This is an issue in ROOST not just because of class selection but it skews the balance of the first round since there is very little chance that reinforcements will run out.
Click to expand...

should the first round end after 1 minute, or do you mean a that the limited classes are locked for 1 minute?
 
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#27
what he means is that on most servers the pre start timer is set too low. Like I said on a 50 player server usually the server starts after 30 seconds. Although only like 20% of the players are ready to play within 30 seconds.

So the first 1 or 2 spawns you have a game of only 5v5 rather than 25v25, during this time 1 or more entire cap zones can be capped already. Before basically everybody connected.

So Smokey suggest that after a server switches map by default it should wait 1 or 2 minutes till actually kicking the game off. As otherwise 90% of the people won't be playing in the first (crucial) round. So with a reasonable delay you really can have a big battle from the get go.

The only issue with that is that people can get bored if they would need to wait even 1 minute till the game starts, (youth of these days :( ).
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RTCW solved this in a nice way to not make the waiting get boring, after a server changed maps and before the actual match started fast connectors could play a bit for X minutes where kills, caps and tk's weren't counted. It was called the "warm up" period (basically a quick free for all death match).

Then after those X minutes the game reset and the real match started. And for clan matches the timer would be set to infinite so it wouldn't be ready till both teams were ready.

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The advantage of a system like that is that people with a fast computer do not have to get bored waiting at a screen till everybody is ready. And because of that a server can allow a longer time for people with a slower computer to connect on time without everybody getting annoyed for waiting.

In clan matches if your opponent takes ages to get their tactics done, you could at least have fun with your team mates and warm up a little by playing some death match.

For servers that don't like something like free for all for some breathing space, they could possible just set it to let people wait at a black screen or something. But for the majority of the servers a system like RTCW had would make things a lot nicer.
 
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#28
Personally, I think it is getting overly complicated (not that I disagree with the topic), but I definitely don't like weapon selection to have anything to do with perks or unlocks or achievements, those things I don't like in the game to begin with. I don't think it is fair to new players, players that don't get to play as much, and only really caters to veterans, long standing players or even those players that get too easily annoyed that the noob player in that class at the moment isn't as good as they think they are because they feel they are better at it and somehow "deserve" it.

A small delay is fine for me (not that I care, I take rifleman 95% of the time anyway :p ), with possibly a buttom to apply for another class as a 2nd choice and then it is first come first serve when that class opens up.

:)
 
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#29
There are many suggestions not utilizing any stats perks or achievements in this thread :\. Its just that things can always be expanded in different ways.

Personally for the pure class selection, I say that signing up for a weapon and then out of all people signed up one randomly gets the weapon is the most equal way to distribute a weapon. And should solve the issue well enough. (and such a system does not discriminate among players based on strength or computer hardware).

Its just that it can be expanded in ways, like taking into account in the next rattle that last time playerX didn't get what he wanted so he should get more of a chance than someone that did get what he wanted in the previous rattle. Or like America's Army forcing people to do a short single player training first so people at least know how different features work.
 
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#30
I have an idea: You could make it so that different classes take up a different amount of reinforcements in the reinforcements gamemode. So the sniper for example takes up 10% of the reinforcements which in this example is equal to 20 lives. Now if a player dies 5 times with the sniper class, he loses that class. Giving a maxiumum 4 players a chance to try out the role. So if a player just goes ahead and dies all the time he will lose the class to someone else shortly.

This would also fix the problem on small servers where no one uses regular bolt-action rifles.
 
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#32
or just invest in a better pc?
atleast Atm ppl who lagg so hard they cant hit squat dont get to run off with a sniperrifle they cant use =(

And some ppl just have redicilously long load time, should we have to wait in 5 min for them to get into the game before we cant choose our class?
meeh, you get your sniper rifle soon enough. Just be a little patient and keep an eye open and you might get your sniperrifle spot.

Besides, if you are really desperate, do the russian style and follow the sniper, wait for him to die like an nubb you claim him to be and grab it :3 I do this a lot with weapons much success.
 
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#34
I like the idea of having a timer of 20sec before you can join a class like sniper, and you can apply before that. So if there are 5 people in total appying you get a 20% chance. Because after those 20sec, everyone will have picked his weapon, so if you wanted to apply for sniper, and failed, you will have to choose what remains. This would prevent too many people just always applying when the game starts, because they would lose their chance to become anything else but rifleman (probably) when they fail.
 
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#37
I like the way it was done in RO:Ostfront.

The person with the FASTEST computer should get the FIRST shot at being SL, MG, and SNIPER.

If your PC is SLOW it means you are NOT SERIOUS ENOUGH ABOUT PLAYING RO. A SLOW PC will NEGATIVELY affect your PERFORMANCE as SL, MG, SNIPER! You don't want to do that to your team!

Of course players with only the HIGHEST HONOUR LEVEL should be allowed to play these classes. After that it's who has the FASTEST PC because the more you INVESTED in your PC the more SERIOUS you are about RO.

EDIT: Let me use an analogy. Do you see Carlos Santana or Steve Vai or some other amazing guitarist using a $100 mass-manufactured starter guitar? No, he is going to be using a $5000 custom shop hand-made guitar. I know there are exceptions to almost every rule, but overall, the faster your rig, the more serious you are about gaming, and the higher the skill level.
 
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#40
Kosher_Nuke said:
I like the way it was done in RO:Ostfront.

The person with the FASTEST computer should get the FIRST shot at being SL, MG, and SNIPER.

If your PC is SLOW it means you are NOT SERIOUS ENOUGH ABOUT PLAYING RO. A SLOW PC will NEGATIVELY affect your PERFORMANCE as SL, MG, SNIPER! You don't want to do that to your team!

Of course players with only the HIGHEST HONOUR LEVEL should be allowed to play these classes. After that it's who has the FASTEST PC because the more you INVESTED in your PC the more SERIOUS you are about RO.

EDIT: Let me use an analogy. Do you see Carlos Santana or Steve Vai or some other amazing guitarist using a $100 mass-manufactured starter guitar? No, he is going to be using a $5000 custom shop hand-made guitar. I know there are exceptions to almost every rule, but overall, the faster your rig, the more serious you are about gaming, and the higher the skill level.
Click to expand...
Your analogy doesn't work. Also, computer performance isn't directly proportional to interest in gaming.
 
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