Gebalte Ladung, Explosive charges and "Pak soldat"

[Tiger2]

Just wanted to suggest a few things. Let there be a time delay on satchel charges that a player can set within a 10-30 seconds range. The magnetic charge should be exclusively restricted to Germans, and the AT grenade + satchel charges be weighed down when they are thrown, because in Rost you could send the former quite far and land them straight on the engine exhaust.

 

[Tank!]

on satchel charges...

Another suggestion would be to replace the generic "satchel charge" with a proper charge like this one:

 

[Grobut]

Mmmm, a 3kg box of yummy candies..

 

[Rrralphster]

If German soldiers can spawn with Russian weapons (and vice versa), I don't see the need to make the "haft hohlladung" exclusive.

And the Russian RG's could be assembled as a "geballte ladung" or even a "Bangalore" (just like the Model 24).

 

[Tiger2]

Symmetric balance negatively affects the game experience. There should remain exclusive weapons to keep the equation complex. The communist side will have semi- automatic AT rifles. The magnetic charge should as I said be exclusively German. The AT grenades should be for both sides since the russians had the means to assemble them. Something else i thought of was that it would be better to have certain objectives which have to destroyed by sapers rather than simply captured in territory game type. Spices things up in territory because objectives have to be approached differently.

 

[Inuki]

Symmetric balance negatively affects the game experience. There should remain exclusive weapons to keep the equation complex. The communist side will have semi- automatic AT rifles. The magnetic charge should as I said be exclusively German. The AT grenades should be for both sides since the russians had the means to assemble them. Something else i thought of was that it would be better to have certain objectives which have to destroyed by sapers rather than simply captured in territory game type. Spices things up in territory because objectives have to be approached differently.

When you have global stat tracking symmetrical balance is a must otherwise we will all join the side which is easier and gives you that 0.00001% advantage.

 

[FBOTheLiuetenant]

Yet the lack of symmetrical balance was part of what made RO so brilliant in my opinion. That the idea of balancing weapons didn't come in the form of messing with the laws of ballistics, but in limiting what classes could be played based on the map. This also created that extra little attention to detail, "This gun wasn't in production at this battle" or "This gun was being widely mass produced". It was a very effective way to have both balance AND realistic weapons, something that a lot of people say can't be done.

It is true, that with stat tracking some players might be KDR whores, but that doesn't really change the balance of the weapons themselves. There are people in RO that really want a PPSH, really want an MG42, or people like me that prefer being rifleman. Yet because of class limits none of these classes out balance each other, unless you have a bolt-action going up against a PPSH in CQC but thats a whole other matter.

 

[Tiger2]

Exclusive weapons do not affect balance as reinforcement limit, class limit, map design, strength ratio and mission objectives must be factored into the equation as well. Only then it can be said that a particular side is stronger under one set of circumstances.

 

[Rrralphster]

Oh, I do like how realistically unballanced equipment wise RO is/will be (that is without sarcasm, I like it that the Russians probably have the best SMG and the Germans get the best LMG etc.). That is one of the nice little details that makes it a good game.

And now I'm writing this, my point is just silly. Might as well pick them (or whatever I need) up from dead enemies. Pwoblem solved.

And I certainly don't mind seeing more kinds of explosives in the game.

 

[Krator]

BTW what's the point of Pzb 39 for germans? It can't penetrate T34 at all, even lower hull side is probably just too thick. And T34 is the only soviet tank at the game's release.
The only purpose of this weapon seems sniping people through walls and exploiting the shadow-clipping bug by shooting people through the floor of the building.
Granatb

 

[Tiger2]

Are you taking about a HEAT grenade that was loaded into the kar98 or is it something else? And how effective was the PTRD against the Pz4?

 

[Reise]

If there is a close in combined arms map I'd like to see those magnetic charges or molotov cocktails.

Not in immense numbers obviously, but maybe as a map-specific pickup like the Panzerfausts of some of Ostfront's maps.

 

[Krator]

Granatb

 

[Capt.Cool]

+1 Yes to Geballte Ladung!

would be a great addition for the german AT soldier and a good balance for the soviet PTRD anti tank rifle.

 

[Krator]

Was Geballte Ladung really effective against T34? Cause I have my doubts. It may destroy the track, but other than that?
RO1 completely ignored very high number of light tanks throughout the war on soviet side. RO2 is adding a light tank only in the update. Against such vehicles GL should be really effective. But against T34? Where are we going to throw it? Maybe on engine deck the concussion could kill the engine. But I can't really see the chances of killing the crew.

I would be much more happy with rifle grenades on german side. Good 70mm of penetration that (if lucky) can even kill T34 frontally and absolutely reliably from the side, but lower range, accuracy and rate of fire than PTRD.

 

[BrausePaul]

Rifle grenades discuss here!

The >Geballte Ladung< was not very effective against a T-34 - perhaps on light tanks such as T-26 and BTs.

>Haft-Hohlladung 3kg< (magnetic hollow charge) should be an appropriate weapon against a T-34

first front trials april 1942
official issued november 1942

It penetrates 140mm of armored steel and after ignition the Pak soldier has 7.5 seconds to place the charge and take cover...

 

[Wesreidau]

Handy little sheet of German anti-armor weapons and tools cira early 1942.

GebLad's, smoke grenades, teller mines, anti-tank grenades, flamethrowers, incendiary bottles, 3kg charges and even massed rifle or MG fire were the preferred methods. I found the suggestion to open tank hatches with bayonets to be particularly valuable to Red Orchestra's gameplay.

 

[Unterscharfuhrer]

I hope they are carefull with AT Grenades and satchels that could totaly ruin the tankin and combined arms expierence!

But anyway:


ACHTUNG! Shambeh Bambeh!

EDIT: Uh, and by the way it

 

[Krator]

How on earth would rifle grenade kill combined arms experience, when Darkest Hour has one of the best combined arms experiences even though there are Panzerschrecks present. I used to kill tanks with it at 150-200m.
And rifle grenades wouldn't ruin the experience any more than PTRS, which penetrates sides of Pz IV with ease, can kill optics/damage cannon and is semi automatic.
Rifle grenades can only penetrate T34 turret front at the 0 degrees angle, or front armor if grenade arc is big enough to minimize the front armor angle effect by 20 degrees or if shot from higher ground. It's less accurate, has low range (up to 150m), takes long to reload.
If GrB 39 was in game germans would have specialized AT weapon, with better penetration/destructive effects than PTRS, but much much slower firing, less accurate and with much shorter range.
To me it seems pretty balanced.
With PzB 39 we have a door knocker that can't do **** against T34, which is going to be the ONLY soviet tank at the game release. So we're basically without any ranged infantry AT weapon. Not a good situation when russian tank is at the crossroads firing at your positions 100m away.

 

[Wesreidau]

Hopefully we'll have the PnzB39 with the GrB 39 unlockable (as it was a field rebuilt conversion in '42). Then we can pair up and alternate between blowing the tracks off, shooting through vision slits and blasting through the sides with HEAT charges. It takes teamwork to kill a tank, after all. Couple this with GebLads, smoke and molotovs and we'll only need the Haft-Hohlladung for a coup-de-grace. I'd like to see the Russians try to match German panzerjaegers in the close assault. The PTRS might penetrate at 0 degrees, but any decent tanker will learn to not allow that. The PTRS might be semi-automatic, but the hull MG and coax MG are both fully automatic in their response. And while the Russians might have RPG-40, the Germans had the Panzerwurfmine in 41. So I welcome TWI to fully explore infantry anti-tank weapons for both sides, where hopefully the superior German close-assault AT weapons will counteract the PnzIII and IV's vulnerablility to anti-tank rifles.