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I can't hit shi?

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#21
jolorulz said:
LOL I was gonna ask about rifles in RO1 when I stumbled upon this post.

Anyway, Hi to all you guys here. I'm also a (sort of) newbie to the RO craze and have wanted to get into alot of the discussions around this forum for some time now. I was about to make a post about the Kar98k and the Mosin Nagant rifles, but I thought it'd be better to just ask questions here than make another redundant thread.

My question is about the accuracy of the (In Game) Kar98k vs the Mosin Nagant. I've always preferred to play axis in most cases, and have taken a liking to the rifleman class. But to tell you honestly, the Kar98k hasn't really been quite as impressive as its been worked up to be compared to the Mosin Nagant. I often times found myself picking up fallen MN's to exchange with K98. IDK much about rifles, other than the fact that, at least in game, the MN has been much more effective in combat than the K98. Any thoughts about this and whether the game accurately depicts both rifles as they were in real life?

Thanks in advance!
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In real life the average K98k is generally more accurate than the average Mosin Nagant, and that simply because of the superior build quality of the K98k rifle as-well as the better made & designed ammunition it fires (strictly talking WW2 ammunition now). I don't know what the differences are ingame in terms of the dispersion of each rifle, but I'd assume its identical except for differences in trajectory because of differences in muzzle velocity.
 
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#22
Btw, the popular theory that a bullet dropped from a hand and one fired through a gun, directly level to the ground, at the same height will hit the ground at the same time only applies in a vacuum.

Same as the old gallileo theory where objects of the same size & shape, but with differences in mass, will hit the ground at the same time if dropped from the same height at the same time. This again only applies in a vacuum where air resistance plays no part on the final result.
 
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#23
Unus Offa said:
Btw, the popular theory that a bullet dropped from a hand and one fired through a gun, directly level to the ground, at the same height will hit the ground at the same time only applies in a vacuum.

Same as the old gallileo theory where objects of the same size & shape, but with differences in mass, will hit the ground at the same time if dropped from the same height at the same time. This again only applies in a vacuum where air resistance plays no part on the final result.
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All high school physics. They don't teach this stuff anymore?
 
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#25
Unus Offa said:
Btw, the popular theory that a bullet dropped from a hand and one fired through a gun, directly level to the ground, at the same height will hit the ground at the same time only applies in a vacuum.
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True, but it's one of those thumb rules that if you're not that much into physics or [insert something random here] it's one way to get started. Unless there's some specific inquiry about details or some other (good) reason to dig deeper there's no need to make things overcomplicated even with the price of some technical (or physical) inaccuracies :p
 
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#26
Oldih said:
True, but it's one of those thumb rules that if you're not that much into physics or [insert something random here] it's one way to get started. Unless there's some specific inquiry about details or some other (good) reason to dig deeper there's no need to make things overcomplicated even with the price of some technical (or physical) inaccuracies :p
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True, and to be fair you did say that they would hit the ground at "pretty much the same time", you didn't claim they would hit at exactly the same time which would've been wrong :)
 
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#30
Tank! said:
Game code:
Kar98Bullet
defaultproperties
{
BallisticCoefficient=0.390
Damage=115
MyDamageType=class'Kar98ScopedDamType'
MyVehicleDamage=class'Kar98ScopedVehDamType'
Speed=37808 // 2363 fps
}
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Wow, that's inaccurate.. would probably be good with a small patch for that.

You got the data on the Mosin as-well ?

A ballistic coefficient of 0.390 is around that of the 154 gr S Patr., but that thing went along at 2,900+ fps ! Even worse, the S Patr. was out of std. use by the time of WW2 where it had long been replaced by the heavy s.S. Patr.

The ballistic coefficient of the 198 gr s.S. Patr. is an average of 0.590, with a muzzle velocity of 2,493 fps.

By comparison the BC of the Russian 147 gr Type L is 0.393, with a muzzle velocity of 2,821 fps.

I have talked to the devs (Alan & Chris) about the rifles in RO:HOS however, and they promised the BC's will be accurate this time around. So you can expect the real BC's listed above for RO:HOS :)
 
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#32
Floyd said:
Keep in mind, that the value of the programming variable named BallisticCoefficient may not correlate to the same value of a published ballistics coefficient of a particular bullet. If you get what I'm saying....
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Yeah I was thinking the same, that's why I was asking for the code data on the Mosin as-well. The low muzzle velocity figure is still a mystery though.

I will add though that a MV of 2300 fps + a BC of 0.390 seems awfully close to Remington & Winchester's commercial 170 gr loadings for the 8mm Mauser, which are purposely underloaded to avoid accidents with the older M88 action. Could it be that the ballistics for the 8mm mauser in RO:Ost were modelled on these commercial loads?
 
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#33
You're still assuming that real world values equate proportionally to ingame values. Real world formulas, computations and results may be vastly different when applied within the game engine.

And lets not get into the BC thing again. I found it odd that you would pick apart 'newton's law of gravity' by adding atmoshpere, but remain so emphatic about BC being so gosh awful dominant in bullet performance across different loads, different calibers and different weapons. ;)
 
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#34
Floyd said:
You're still assuming that real world values equate proportionally to ingame values. Real world formulas, computations and results may be vastly different when applied within the game engine.
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Sure, I am assuming that muzzle velocity, when listed in fps, equates to proportionally to real world values. I might be wrong doing so, or I might be right doing so, fact is we don't know that yet until we get some insider information here.

But getting the data on the Mosin would atleast give us some clue.

And lets not get into the BC thing again. I found it odd that you would pick apart 'newton's law of gravity' by adding atmoshpere, but remain so emphatic about BC being so gosh awful dominant in bullet performance across different loads, different calibers and different weapons. ;)
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It's quite obvious that you have misunderstood me before. The reason BC is important to accuracy is because bullets with a higher BC are less affected by wind, and because everything else being equal their maximum accurate range is longer, i.e. they reach the transonic stage at a longer range.

But wind isn't modelled in the game, so naturally bullet BC becomes less important accuracy wise than it is in the real world, but it still has an effect at the extreme ranges where the bullet closes in on the speed at which it transitions from supersonic to subsonic flight. That again though is assuming transonic instability is modelled ingame, which I have heard they choose to leave out not so long ago.

The above is all I have ever stated in regards to BC and its' effects on accuracy :)
 
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