Silenced weapons
- Thread starter Nicholas
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I'd much rather have crossbows as a stealth options 
(joke)
Hmm... though a medieval-themed mod for RO2 could have potential
...or not. Food for thought.
(joke)
Hmm... though a medieval-themed mod for RO2 could have potential
...or not. Food for thought.
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No. Just no.
You gave the reason yourself: silenced weapons - if ever - were used by partisans or special ops.
Do we play as partisans? NO! Do we play as special ops? NO!
thats the reason we wont find any silenced gun in ROHOS.
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I'm hoping the only suppressed weapon in the game is the Nagant variant.
And I also hope Tripwire knows that "silenced" weapons really aren't silent... but I'm largely confident in their vast weapon knowledge they know that, and will probably be the first game to NOT have ridiculously silent weapons.
So in the case of the Nagant I believe it fires subsonic ammunition which means it won't produce a supersonic crack, making suppressing easier, but even then a suppressed Pistol with subsonic ammunition is much much louder than most people would like to believe. It is incredibly unlikely that the Nagant's suppressor reduces velocity, and more likely that it increases velocity beyond what it would be without the suppressor, but lethality should still remain largely the same.
The cartridge itself that the Nagant fires has incredibly low-potential energy, and it's likely that the Nagant pistol, suppressed or not, will be the weakest weapon in the game.
And I also hope Tripwire knows that "silenced" weapons really aren't silent... but I'm largely confident in their vast weapon knowledge they know that, and will probably be the first game to NOT have ridiculously silent weapons.
So in the case of the Nagant I believe it fires subsonic ammunition which means it won't produce a supersonic crack, making suppressing easier, but even then a suppressed Pistol with subsonic ammunition is much much louder than most people would like to believe. It is incredibly unlikely that the Nagant's suppressor reduces velocity, and more likely that it increases velocity beyond what it would be without the suppressor, but lethality should still remain largely the same.
The cartridge itself that the Nagant fires has incredibly low-potential energy, and it's likely that the Nagant pistol, suppressed or not, will be the weakest weapon in the game.
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Only World War 2 games that silenced weapons actually suit are games like Hidden and Dangerous 2. If you don't know what that is, it's an old SAS game made a few years ago. Silenced weapons suit that because you actually need to be sneaky...
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I think we are victims of a misconception about bullet damage to the body.
With round nose, non-expanding, non-tumbling bullets nearly all damage done to the body is small permanent crush cavity, which is mostly affected by bullet caliber. Of course temporary stretch cavity is going to be bigger in case of faster 7,62 rounds, but most studies of this subject (from what I remember) indicated, that temporary stretching of the tissue doesn't really make any difference.
If penetration of nagant revolver bullet exceedes 14 inches of body tissue, I don't really think it should be much less deadly than bullet from TT or even Ppsz. I mean, bullet from PPsh is going to retain more energy when exiting the body, but not really dumping some substantially bigger amount in the tissue.
Of course TT or Ppsh are going to be much better at penetrating all kinds of cover and helmets (which IMO should stop nagant rounds at greater angles/distance) or at killing stupid germans standing in a row. Other than that - it's just going to pierce the same small diameter hole in the body, in most cases probably creating exit wound.
BTW I really hope that 9mm will be more deadly than 7.62 tokarev, since it's bigger and less prone (a bit less probably) to getting deflected by bones but much worse at penetrating cover and helmets (in case of helmets - shots from both 9mm and 7.62 should pierce them at under 40-50m, unless the angle is really big).
BTW2: I have an idea about nagant suppressor "effectivenes".
We all know that suppressors don't work like in hollywood movies. They just make something super-loud less loud, but loud nonetheless. However we're playing as soldiers in the middle of the battle. We're firing unsuppressed weapons indoors and outdoors in narrow streets. Nades are exploding all around us. Artillery shells are exploding here and there. In the middle of such madness our ability to hear would be GREATLY impaired thanks to all this extreme noise and stress (auditory exclusion) and so suppressed shot may be unnoticed from much closer distance than in normal circumstances. The game developers don't want this to happen (playing as half-deaf most of the time isn't that fun) so they're probably going to make Nagant more silent.
It won't be unrealistic. Our ability to hear everything else during the battle is unrealistic. Not being able to hear shot from nagant with suppressor 1 floor above is actually THE realistic part. It'll just contrast with the unrealistically clear sounds of the battlefield.
I'm all against suppressors in this game, but if they are in, I'm not going to cry.
With round nose, non-expanding, non-tumbling bullets nearly all damage done to the body is small permanent crush cavity, which is mostly affected by bullet caliber. Of course temporary stretch cavity is going to be bigger in case of faster 7,62 rounds, but most studies of this subject (from what I remember) indicated, that temporary stretching of the tissue doesn't really make any difference.
If penetration of nagant revolver bullet exceedes 14 inches of body tissue, I don't really think it should be much less deadly than bullet from TT or even Ppsz. I mean, bullet from PPsh is going to retain more energy when exiting the body, but not really dumping some substantially bigger amount in the tissue.
Of course TT or Ppsh are going to be much better at penetrating all kinds of cover and helmets (which IMO should stop nagant rounds at greater angles/distance) or at killing stupid germans standing in a row. Other than that - it's just going to pierce the same small diameter hole in the body, in most cases probably creating exit wound.
BTW I really hope that 9mm will be more deadly than 7.62 tokarev, since it's bigger and less prone (a bit less probably) to getting deflected by bones but much worse at penetrating cover and helmets (in case of helmets - shots from both 9mm and 7.62 should pierce them at under 40-50m, unless the angle is really big).
BTW2: I have an idea about nagant suppressor "effectivenes".
We all know that suppressors don't work like in hollywood movies. They just make something super-loud less loud, but loud nonetheless. However we're playing as soldiers in the middle of the battle. We're firing unsuppressed weapons indoors and outdoors in narrow streets. Nades are exploding all around us. Artillery shells are exploding here and there. In the middle of such madness our ability to hear would be GREATLY impaired thanks to all this extreme noise and stress (auditory exclusion) and so suppressed shot may be unnoticed from much closer distance than in normal circumstances. The game developers don't want this to happen (playing as half-deaf most of the time isn't that fun) so they're probably going to make Nagant more silent.
It won't be unrealistic. Our ability to hear everything else during the battle is unrealistic. Not being able to hear shot from nagant with suppressor 1 floor above is actually THE realistic part. It'll just contrast with the unrealistically clear sounds of the battlefield.
I'm all against suppressors in this game, but if they are in, I'm not going to cry.
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Well you make some good points and I'm a big fan of terminal ballistics myself... but I know for a fact that 7.62mm Tokarev FMJ will yaw in tissue while 9mm FMJ will mostly punch clean. Here is a picture showing that 7.62mm Tokarev FMJ yaws.
In the end they both remove about the same amount of tissue within the width of a torso - the 7.62mm TT will enter smaller but yaw more, while the 9mm will just punch clean.
They're very similar wound channels, and in the original RO:OST all the 9mm/7.62mm weapons (regardless of barrel length) do 50 damage, which when calculated through the game rates them as POTENTIAL 1-shot but usually 2, and sometimes even 3 hits. This is about right, and I respect Tripwire's knowledge and implementation of said calibers.
I don't know anything about the terminal ballistics of the Nagant cartridge but it probably would fail to yaw, and punch clean through, creating smaller wounds than both 9mm and 7.62mm. That's just my opinion on it though, maybe you're correct. It is also possible, that due to the design of the 7.62 Nagant cartridge, depending on what the Russian Army uses, that it may expand like a hollow-point. But I must honestly admit I have little knowledge on that specific ammunition.
In the end they both remove about the same amount of tissue within the width of a torso - the 7.62mm TT will enter smaller but yaw more, while the 9mm will just punch clean.
They're very similar wound channels, and in the original RO:OST all the 9mm/7.62mm weapons (regardless of barrel length) do 50 damage, which when calculated through the game rates them as POTENTIAL 1-shot but usually 2, and sometimes even 3 hits. This is about right, and I respect Tripwire's knowledge and implementation of said calibers.
I don't know anything about the terminal ballistics of the Nagant cartridge but it probably would fail to yaw, and punch clean through, creating smaller wounds than both 9mm and 7.62mm. That's just my opinion on it though, maybe you're correct. It is also possible, that due to the design of the 7.62 Nagant cartridge, depending on what the Russian Army uses, that it may expand like a hollow-point. But I must honestly admit I have little knowledge on that specific ammunition.
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The sheer novelty of a silenced revolver was probably the sole factor in deciding to add it.
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Oh, brass fetcher. Love this website. I wonder, if WW2 military ammo behaves the same way as S&B, how much does bullet weight/how fast it travels. And if tumbling occurs after penetrating clothing/leather/pieces of equipment. I trust TWI, but I don't think they have gathered THAT much info BTW I don't know anything about Nagant cartridge. It just seems to be able to penetrate human body. If 7.62 tokarev reliably tumbles and nagant doesn't, then I think it's right to say that it should be noticeably weaker (but only by a small amount) than other pistols in game.
BTW I don't know anything about Nagant cartridge. It just seems to be able to penetrate human body. If 7.62 tokarev reliably tumbles and nagant doesn't, then I think it's right to say that it should be noticeably weaker (but only by a small amount) than other pistols in game.
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This.The sheer novelty of a silenced revolver was probably the sole factor in deciding to add it.
However I wouldn't like a too silenced surpressor.
But it's TWI so I guess we're good
Unless we have a video with sound or beta, nothing can be said about it (now I am ignoring the terminal ballistics stuff of course)
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Guys, I'm sure any silenced weapon in the game will be as rare as the scoped Mkb42 & AVT40, so no need to worry about, esp. since I'm also quite sure that this can turned off by the server administrator. Have a little faith in TWI guys.
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