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How to deal with TKs in game

ductape3

Grizzled Veteran
Jan 13, 2011
280
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I was just playing RO a little earlier, and the though struck me that in HoS, the system for punishing and forgiving tks needs to be worked on. In ROOST, 99% of the team kills are accidental, yet you need to type "np" or "forgive" in order to forgive the offender.

My idea was to reverse the system so that you need to type "punish" or hit a key, "numpad enter" or some other out of the way key, in order to punish them.

With the influx of new players, the tks will be through the roof, and half of the time, (at least is seems that way to me) people forget or don't really think about typing "np" and so the player gets punished. sometimes I don't forgive just because I wait to long before typing in "np," and then its too late.

By switching this around, you can hit griefers much harder, with each punished teamkill counting more against their honor. Also this will spare a lot of lost honor in accidental teamkills.

Of course, if a person kills too many friendlies in a round, its usually indicative that they just aren't being careful with their shots, and so they should still get a hit on their honor. Maybe 10-12 friendly kills in a match, possibly even as low as 7 or 6.

Lastly I think that there should be some type of scrolling tip giver during the loading screen. Where besides the normal beginner gameplay tips, there are reminders that say things like "Remember, most teamkills are accidental." or "Always double check your shots, friendly fire is generally frowned upon."

Thoughts?
 
How to deal with TKs in game?
Summary execution

:IS2:


Jokes aside,
In my opinion, the problem with "punish system", is that many people take accidental TK's as serious offense, even when you say sorry, they forget it's just a game. The "punish" command could give griefers a new toy
 
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I like this idea, sounds better than forgiving someone, I'd rather punish a teamkiller on purpose than have to do something to forgive them.

Are you asuming that every TK en RO is on purpose? have you ever played RO?

go the ARMA way and stick TKers in a room with nothing but the banana phone song.
that'll teach em :p

Like in America's Army?. It was funny xD
 
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I understand an Honor system is put in. People who TK a lot will be flagged as "dishonorable" and can be easily banned from "honorable" servers.

Hopefully that'll keep the professional griefers in check.

From how I read it, TKs will impact your honor, and if it goes low enough then you get flagged.

I suggested my idea because I want to avoid having unintentional tks count against you honor as much as possible. That wont stop jerks getting upset and punishing despite it being an accidental tk.

But what it will do, I think, is help cut out a lot of punishes that could/should have been forgives, and serve as a more effective way to tag griefers. Its also a much better litmus of a player if they have a lot of punishes attributed to them in a system where people have to actively punish, than in a system where a tker is guilty until proven innocent.
 
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Playing last night with a few friends, I was teamkilled about 5 times out of pure incompetence, people shooting at freindly vehicles, or lighting me up while I'm capturing a crucial objective. I find I rarely ever excuse teamkills because so many of them were just negligence. If however I run in front of a machinegun's line of fire, or run into friendly artillery then I will forgive them, obviously.

However, one gripe I do have with the system is that people with incredibly low scores have the same TK limit as people with really high scores. On that same round last night I topped the scoreboard as a combat engineer, but I was kicked since I did happen to kill a few teamates while destroying objectives. It seems unfair that the TK limit was the same for me as it is for a rifleman with 3 kills, despite me having a much more volatile and risky job on the team.
 
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However, one gripe I do have with the system is that people with incredibly low scores have the same TK limit as people with really high scores. On that same round last night I topped the scoreboard as a combat engineer, but I was kicked since I did happen to kill a few teamates while destroying objectives. It seems unfair that the TK limit was the same for me as it is for a rifleman with 3 kills, despite me having a much more volatile and risky job on the team.

Well, just because someone have "better" score doesn't have the right to TK more people. For the contrary, if you are "more skilled", you're supposed to TK even less players than "people with incredibly low scores".
 
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On the contrary, that's exactly what it means. It was rakowice, I destroyed 3 tanks and captured two objectives with friends, and even took/destroyed some singlehandedly. As little as score "matters" it is an indication of who has made the biggest teamside impact.

If I'm trying to blow a bunker door open or take out a flak gun, it hardly seems fair that I get temproarily banned from the game because some cannon-fodder player walked into my satchel charge, if I have a tiny window of opportunity to push the entire team forward and one little lone rifleman stands in my way, why should I be punished if he's an unintentional casualty? Obviously I should be punished, but it's simply asinine that I would get kicked for such a misdemeanor when I'm among the people making a larger effort.

The fact of the matter is, if you have a 3-point rifleman who's constantly shooting his teammates in the back because he's not careful, he is not on equal grounds as somebody who is pushing the team froward on the map and who teamkills people unintentionally as collateral damage.

It's not as if that rifleman sahould be punished more than anybody else, but if you've got one player who's racked up enemy kills and taken numerous objectives, then he should be rewarded a bit of leniency since what he is doing is higher-risk. If I'm among the front line and I need to throw grenades and expend ammo, there's a higher possibility that I may accidentally kill a teammate. Wheras if there's a rifleman on the back lines firing pot-shots, he should be held more accountable for screw-ups.
 
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Educating people as always been hard, specially when u point out those brainless noobs running on placed satchel charges...

To me, a simple fade to black screen with tips to avoid TKs during that interlude won't hurt no one. This would be asked from a vote. Like :

You have been team killed by Nestor Makhno :
1 - Make him blind and let him think about it.
2 - Forgive him.
3 - Option 3...

This could be a server option, and those options would be customizable by server admin.
 
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My 2 cents:

* Actively forgiving someone is better than actively punishing someone as it makes people think in more positive terms about each other. "Did it seem to be an accident? Did he say sorry? Ah, well, OK then."
* Some DoD servers had a really nice feature where 5 (or was it 10) kills would erase one unforgiven TK off of your record. 5 unforgiven TKs was still a kick, but this way you could either be forgiven or redeem yourself. The griefers still burned.
* Add votekick as a final resort.

TLDR:

1. Forgive your n00b team mates and teach them to forgive mistakes.
2. Give players a way to make up for past mistakes.
3. Make vote kicking easy in order to get rid of obvious griefers.
 
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1-you can't actually change people's behavior by encouraging them to be positive. all that does is make the game laughable.

2-you make up for a mistake by not doing it again. the player will try to get kills regardless if there's a "redeem" system in place. it's not like he's trying not to kill the enemy before he tk'ed.

3-then lots of people wll get votekicked for stupid reasons.
 
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On the assumption (correct IMO) that most to TKs are accidental, it's better to create a system that assumes the player is innocent, however it's also true that if you flash ammessage in front of he player saying "you were killed by PlayerY. Press X to punish them" then players will show a tendency to punish since you are being suggestive in nature.

If you hide the punish options, you'll probably find that most general players will never know that they even can punish TKs.

What to do? I would favor a forgive-by-default-punish with key system that is only advertised in the configs and tooltip screens. I feel that this would prob split the difference.
 
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I will add one thing about the honour system that has bugged me since the days when i first had to deal with it in americas army.

It's a perfect system for the uber troll who is not at all calculated. He joins the game and starts tking and gets caught for it. On my first time playing AA2 the entire team got TKED by a very high "honour" troll who ran around team killing new players, so when they team killed him back next round, boom they went to jail as the bad guy. Boom Troll wins and is actually protected by said system.

Guaranteed it is does require some legitimate playing in between being an asshat, but that experience made me stop playing AA2 right then and there. It's kind of a bad flaw to have in such a system and can make new players drop a game lickity split. At least it did for me, and I consider myself to be someone with higher then average determination; I'm like one of the five people who stuck around with RO's learning curve for the first two days of getting destroyed.(G4TV joke there)
 
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