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Bunch of Firebug ideas/fixes

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#41
outofrealman said:
One HS alt-fire = nothing left. Or 2 M32 shots :D. And if I'm using commando, it is not very possible I get 10 clots close enough.





At least commando have a choice to choose the M32. And even if commandos only use SCAR + AK, it is powerful enough for CC. At the same time dont need to fear about runing out of ammo while having hp bars to help.

Support? It's out of the question. Because its THE all-round perk. It's power starts at medium range. Anything get into medium range is instan-killed or seriously hurt.
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Not necessarily true, since i happen to agree with the other Jack :)
The spread on shotguns is very random, and i'm often left with lucky tosspots are a 10-20m shot from a HS.

Firebug doesn't often get 10 clots close enough, and when he does, they last half as long as when they sneak up on a Commando :p

IMO, only Commando weapons are the most viable for Commando. Shotguns and GLs are popular due to reload speed, but i don't see why reduced damage and nil penetration is appealing. It makes it less effective per shot.

Firebugs don't need to fear running out of ammo either :p
That's Support's domain. :D

Support does kill quite well, but it's only good in close range. The spread on shotguns is laughably large, and often the shot doesn't connect with the intended target, and when it does not enough hits it to cause damage. Only close range has enough accuracy to land shots reliably and with enough potential fatalities. Medium and long range are completely out of the question for Support; as well as super-close range.

Firebug is still the king of medium range. Long range now accessible to him thanks to the M10, and anything within firenade range is incinerated. Medium range tapfiring the Flamethrower means anything within the FT's max range is toast. M10 means everything without it is burnt up as well.

I'm convinced that Firebug is the master CC perk with the facts i've compiled; anyone who knows the tricks of Firebug would be as well.
 
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#42
About why commados using M32 nowadays: you have ak/SCAR for close range or damage spike (sneaky close ranged siren for example) and area stun up to gorefasts at long to medium range with M32, powerful shot with GL + hand nade, one GL shot to finish off a group of randomly jumping/moving crawlers instead of two shots for each, fairly good for fleshpounds. It's not like choosing the M32 = no close range fighting ability. And M32 is powerful enough off-perked. With reload bonus, that's actually good. Or shall we say, we really dont need two nearly the same guns?


Last time I test FT dont have penertration. It can only light more than one target by hitting the ground while those targets is close enough to each other. I have one blocat in front, and 5 clot behind, I hold M1 till that bloat dies, none of the clots is lighted up.

May be you guys can find good spots in all of the maps where you can get zeds travel a long enough way to make FB effective. And when I play support, even on maps like farm, I always have target to shoot without wasting my ammo. So I never encounter those range where support or commando is not effective while FB is. Or you think FB can do this?

YouTube - KillingFloor Killing 200 zeds in 3 minutes [Hell on Earth Biohazard]

And really, what will you do when 5+ gorefasts dashing in? Each of them will use up nearly 20 count of the FT if you dont want to get hurt (tapping or not). And huge group of gorefast appear all the freaking time. Just that 0.5 more second to take away the FT (then you can take out the mac-10) they will be up at your face. And really? You never run out of ammo with firebug? Especially on indoor maps, it is no way you can just tapping M1 and preventing getting some hits from those zeds. Not to mention sirens you basically NEED to hold M1 because you want her dead ASAP.
 
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#43
outofrealman said:
About why commados using M32 nowadays: you have ak/SCAR for close range or damage spike (sneaky close ranged siren for example) and area stun up to gorefasts at long to medium range with M32, powerful shot with GL + hand nade, one GL shot to finish off a group of randomly jumping/moving crawlers instead of two shots for each, fairly good for fleshpounds. It's not like choosing the M32 = no close range fighting ability. And M32 is powerful enough off-perked. With reload bonus, that's actually good. Or shall we say, we really dont need two nearly the same guns?


Last time I test FT dont have penertration. It can only light more than one target by hitting the ground while those targets is close enough to each other. I have one blocat in front, and 5 clot behind, I hold M1 till that bloat dies, none of the clots is lighted up.

May be you guys can find good spots in all of the maps where you can get zeds travel a long enough way to make FB effective. And when I play support, even on maps like farm, I always have target to shoot without wasting my ammo. So I never encounter those range where support or commando is not effective while FB is. Or you think FB can do this?

YouTube - KillingFloor Killing 200 zeds in 3 minutes [Hell on Earth Biohazard]

And really, what will you do when 5+ gorefasts dashing in? Each of them will use up nearly 20 count of the FT if you dont want to get hurt (tapping or not). And huge group of gorefast appear all the freaking time. Just that 0.5 more second to take away the FT (then you can take out the mac-10) they will be up at your face. And really? You never run out of ammo with firebug? Especially on indoor maps, it is no way you can just tapping M1 and preventing getting some hits from those zeds. Not to mention sirens you basically NEED to hold M1 because you want her dead ASAP.
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maybe you just aren't very good with the firebug and don't understand how to use it effectively, but i'm only fairly good with it and i can counter most of the situations you are suggesting with relative ease.
 
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#44
Zoridium JackL said:
maybe you just aren't very good with the firebug and don't understand how to use it effectively, but i'm only fairly good with it and i can counter most of the situations you are suggesting with relative ease.
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May I ask for a vedio on 4-6 man HoE? I really want to see how can you keep everything from hurting you by those "firebug tricks" without running out of ammo on later waves. May be you two really pro enough to by a better CC than commandos, but I dont think it is possible to beat support perk.
 
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#45
outofrealman said:
May I ask for a vedio on 4-6 man HoE? I really want to see how can you keep everything from hurting you by those "firebug tricks" without running out of ammo on later waves. May be you two really pro enough to by a better CC than commandos, but I dont think it is possible to beat support perk.
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there's no need to get snappy, this isn't about how good i am, it's about how just because you can't use a perk well doesn't mean it's ****, i am no good at playing commando, because it just isn't how i play, but i acknowledge what it is good at, and i know enough about it that i can see what experienced commandos are up to, and where it's pitfalls are, as i said, i'm not the best firebug in the world, not even close, but i seem to be able to deal with those situations easier with a firebug, but i have no doubt that you can also do them with commando, but just because you can't do it with firebug doesn't mean it isn't good, try learning the perk, play it and get a feel for it, watch others use it and note it's strategies, it isn't a damage dealer, it's a softner so that everyone else has less work to do, the firebug is usually the one with the least kills at the end of a round (apart from medic), atleast, it is for me, and that's fine because i know that if something is on fire it is less of a threat and therefore a lower priority.

i would record a video but i have a **** laptop and crap recording programs.
 
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#46
Zoridium JackL said:
there's no need to get snappy, this isn't about how good i am, it's about how just because you can't use a perk well doesn't mean it's ****, i am no good at playing commando, because it just isn't how i play, but i acknowledge what it is good at, and i know enough about it that i can see what experienced commandos are up to, and where it's pitfalls are, as i said, i'm not the best firebug in the world, not even close, but i seem to be able to deal with those situations easier with a firebug, but i have no doubt that you can also do them with commando, but just because you can't do it with firebug doesn't mean it isn't good, try learning the perk, play it and get a feel for it, watch others use it and note it's strategies, it isn't a damage dealer, it's a softner so that everyone else has less work to do, the firebug is usually the one with the least kills at the end of a round (apart from medic), atleast, it is for me, and that's fine because i know that if something is on fire it is less of a threat and therefore a lower priority.

i would record a video but i have a **** laptop and crap recording programs.
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Still no one dare to answer some of the questions. Such as what you can do when a bunch of gorefasts dash in?

1. waste too much ammo and lead to running out of ammo because these close combat WILL HAPPEN A LOT
2. taking some hits

So now unless you can get out number 3 solution, it is no way firebug is good enough. It's not like if I can win with what, I win with firebug, I win with LAW, I win with knife + 9mm only, and all these doesn't mean those weapon is effective. When clearly I can do the same thing FASTER and SAFER with other weapons, it is no way they are effective.
 
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#47
outofrealman said:
Still no one dare to answer some of the questions. Such as what you can do when a bunch of gorefasts dash in?

1. waste too much ammo and lead to running out of ammo because these close combat WILL HAPPEN A LOT
2. taking some hits

So now unless you can get out number 3 solution, it is no way firebug is good enough. It's not like if I can win with what, I win with firebug, I win with LAW, I win with knife + 9mm only, and all these doesn't mean those weapon is effective. When clearly I can do the same thing FASTER and SAFER with other weapons, it is no way they are effective.
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M10 decap, 2-3 bodyshots. Dead.
FT: hose them down. As long as you keep them away this should be fine. Remember, you have an M10 that you can decap with.

I suppose the M10 is the 3rd solution.
 
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#49
The only bad thing of M10 is you need two shots to decap and have rediculous recoil. And clearly hose them down with flammer use up too much of the ammo.

And I really look forward to some game play vedios of firebug on HoE (non-solo). We seems to have any perk's vedio but firebug, at least on utube?
 
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#52
Benjamin said:
TBH I think giving the firebug any kind of gun was a bad idea in the first place, it just doesn't fit.



Why did you add a sic?
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Yes, it is a bit odd, but that's just how the candle burns Benny old pal :)

I believe he added a (sic) because either the recoil isn't ridiculous, or that he spelt ridiculous incorrectly; both would be grounds to say (said in context) since that is the context in which it was used.
 
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#54
Firebug Vs gorefeasts aside, the fact remains that the FB is not a very popular choice. It's a one trick pony that handles CC fairly well, but support can do just as well while remaining effective against larger zeds with some nicer perks, and demos completely put firebugs out of work while being exponentially effective the more of them you have.

I would love to see some of the changes the OP suggested.
 
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#55
Im not gonna take a side on the debatte you guys are on, but i am gonna ask a question:

Is there anyone who knows how the panic mechanic works? I know flames last on specimen for 10 seconds, and that the panic effect is always towards the end and when it kicks in it lasts until the specimen is no longer on fire (or dies :rolleyes:), but, how does it work exactly?

Does it work after X seconds? (Like, after 7 seconds, and panics the target for the last 3 remaining seconds?)

Or is the panic-trigger based on (dot?) damage?

If it is based on X seconds, it would be a nice perk buff to make it a bit quicker (Like suggested by some people here, plus in this thread: http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=51700)

Kriegsjaeger said:
Firebug Vs gorefeasts aside, the fact remains that the FB is not a very popular choice. It's a one trick pony that handles CC fairly well, but support can do just as well while remaining effective against larger zeds with some nicer perks, and demos completely put firebugs out of work while being exponentially effective the more of them you have.

I would love to see some of the changes the OP suggested.
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Hihi thanks ^^
 
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#57
outofrealman said:
Why pick a side? You can agree or disagree with both sides (or partly agree, etc). Forum is a place to throw out opinions, not picking sides.
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Oh I see, you're one of those people. HA! Like I'd agree with you!:IS2:











Hurrdurr jests aside, I don't think many are really against making the firebug more interesting. The few that use it support the idea, the many that don't are indifferent.
 
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