Because if you can, you should help. Trash zeds is something that keep coming in swarms. Everyone should help. If I can do my primary job and still perform better in my secondary job, I dont see a reason for not doing it.
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Balances Must have been Suggested by Normal Difficulty players.
- Thread starter Dr Nick
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Because if you can, you should help. Trash zeds is something that keep coming in swarms. Everyone should help. If I can do my primary job and still perform better in my secondary job, I dont see a reason for not doing it.
It's called the 9mm. Get really good with it and you can destroy most trash. I usually don't even bother with M14, as I am good with the 9mm, and it is free with cheaper ammo, and I can hit stuff at the same range as an M14. 9mm is still godlike for a sharp, even on HoE.
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You really play HoE? With 9mm you will only leave a HELL LOT of headless clots and gorefasts. How can this considered "good" for trash when all of them will not die by that head shot?
And at the same time, you can still use 9mm even you have M14. Still, you provide no reason on how xbow can out perform M14 (if you can use both guns properly).
IF you really able to continously head shot with 9mm, you should not have problem with M14. You will be god-like when using one. Cos everything is DEAD by head shots. Not headless. And you will not run out of ammo. And you kill small to big guys easily.
With xbow, you need that ridiculously long hallway like kf-testmap to kill fps. And this will not happen in real game play. Because the stupid spawn system will choose the closest spawn point. So even on maps like farm you cannot place 4 head shots.
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My replies are in bold.
As an aside, I am not saying everyone or anyone "has" to use 9mm, M14 or whatever. The great thing about this game is if you are good enough, it doesn't matter to an extent what weapon you use. I have never had teammates complain or say I am not pulling my weight when I was using 9mm.
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Why rely on iron sight when you have laser sight... also, shouldn't able to hit the head at close to medium range without any sight being the first thing to partise?
Also, without reload bonus, now 9mm takes quite a while to reload. And you ONLY GET 15 shots. And you need 2 to kill the most common zed? This can never be considered effective.
Again you say WHEN THERE'S TWO xbow sharpshooters fp and scrakes drop fast. However, sadly, all that could be a one man job. And you need TWO man to do the same thing. Two support kill fps quick just to aim for the body. Two demo drop a pair fp in less than 2 seconds by just fireing 3 GL shot.
When you need two people to be effective, simply means you have a better choice. It is no point to defend to effectiveness of xbow against fps. Cos its not effective. Not undoable, just not effective comparing to tons of other choices. Considering that, with a selling price higher than T3 weapons, something's not right.
In terms of power only, xbow is fine.
In terms of weight, ammo only, xbow is fine.
But we need to consider the whole picture.
If m14 is not there, xbow is fine.
If support or demo cannot kill fp that fast, xbow is fine.
If you dont need two sharpshoter in the team, xbow is fine.
But all of the above is not true.
Xbow simply is not a good choice for fleshpounds. Sad but true.
Also, without reload bonus, now 9mm takes quite a while to reload. And you ONLY GET 15 shots. And you need 2 to kill the most common zed? This can never be considered effective.
Again you say WHEN THERE'S TWO xbow sharpshooters fp and scrakes drop fast. However, sadly, all that could be a one man job. And you need TWO man to do the same thing. Two support kill fps quick just to aim for the body. Two demo drop a pair fp in less than 2 seconds by just fireing 3 GL shot.
When you need two people to be effective, simply means you have a better choice. It is no point to defend to effectiveness of xbow against fps. Cos its not effective. Not undoable, just not effective comparing to tons of other choices. Considering that, with a selling price higher than T3 weapons, something's not right.
In terms of power only, xbow is fine.
In terms of weight, ammo only, xbow is fine.
But we need to consider the whole picture.
If m14 is not there, xbow is fine.
If support or demo cannot kill fp that fast, xbow is fine.
If you dont need two sharpshoter in the team, xbow is fine.
But all of the above is not true.
Xbow simply is not a good choice for fleshpounds. Sad but true.
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I do hipshoot quite well, but prefer iron sights. Also, the red dot is hard to see really far away, and turns off when you put the weapon away. I use iron sights often enough that if it has crappy irons, I don't use it.
So may be pratise more without any sights?
9mm reload seems about the same as M14. If you don't think the 9mm is effective, play with me sometime.
M14 20 shots = 20 kills up to sirens and husks. And that's the time when you pull out the LAR. Crawlers also. 9mm 15 shots = around 7 clots kill. And I dont believe anyone who can have the same head shot rate to crawlers and other zeds. Quite useful, but not "very" effective.
I play support extensively as well. One support would have difficulty dealing with all the FPs and scrakes that appear on later waves, and this is not even considering that he would run out of ammo. Relying on 2 supports only to take out all scrakes and FPs, they will be out of ammo on higher waves. Also, the demo smokes everything up and can get the team killed.
The main issue here being xbow is no where near effective for pounds. And some people insist that xbow is "very effective" because they want every change is perfect. However, as I give out many examples, there are tons of cheaper and more effective way to due with pounds.
Well, all the top level players I play with actually prefer it to rifles. I like rifles as well, and use them as well, sometimes. Also, you need 2 supports to be effective at killing scrakes and FPs, if that is all that are gunning for those.
When there's two support, there will be NONE small to medium zeds get near the team if they dont suck really bad. You should know pretty well what will happen when two xbow sharpshotoer trying to do the same.
Bolts should be cheaper and you should be able to hold more. My issue with using only one sharp on higher waves is running out of bolts, not the damage.
That's what I'm arguing for. Xbow get nerf in selling price, ammo price, total ammo, damage, starting ammo. Only buff is -1 weight which dont really matter. This is just too much while they keep other pound-killing weapon still very effective with lower price.
One M14 sharp for all the FPs and scrakes will run out of ammo as well.
I myself will run out of ammo on wave 10 sometimes. But if I use more 9mm (normally I dont really need to use 9mm when I'm using LAR + M14), I should have around 2 clip left.
Works fine for me, other than either more bolts or cheaper weapon/ammo.
That means you also thing xbow is over-nerfed.
So may be pratise more without any sights?
9mm reload seems about the same as M14. If you don't think the 9mm is effective, play with me sometime.
M14 20 shots = 20 kills up to sirens and husks. And that's the time when you pull out the LAR. Crawlers also. 9mm 15 shots = around 7 clots kill. And I dont believe anyone who can have the same head shot rate to crawlers and other zeds. Quite useful, but not "very" effective.
I play support extensively as well. One support would have difficulty dealing with all the FPs and scrakes that appear on later waves, and this is not even considering that he would run out of ammo. Relying on 2 supports only to take out all scrakes and FPs, they will be out of ammo on higher waves. Also, the demo smokes everything up and can get the team killed.
The main issue here being xbow is no where near effective for pounds. And some people insist that xbow is "very effective" because they want every change is perfect. However, as I give out many examples, there are tons of cheaper and more effective way to due with pounds.
Well, all the top level players I play with actually prefer it to rifles. I like rifles as well, and use them as well, sometimes. Also, you need 2 supports to be effective at killing scrakes and FPs, if that is all that are gunning for those.
When there's two support, there will be NONE small to medium zeds get near the team if they dont suck really bad. You should know pretty well what will happen when two xbow sharpshotoer trying to do the same.
Bolts should be cheaper and you should be able to hold more. My issue with using only one sharp on higher waves is running out of bolts, not the damage.
That's what I'm arguing for. Xbow get nerf in selling price, ammo price, total ammo, damage, starting ammo. Only buff is -1 weight which dont really matter. This is just too much while they keep other pound-killing weapon still very effective with lower price.
One M14 sharp for all the FPs and scrakes will run out of ammo as well.
I myself will run out of ammo on wave 10 sometimes. But if I use more 9mm (normally I dont really need to use 9mm when I'm using LAR + M14), I should have around 2 clip left.
Works fine for me, other than either more bolts or cheaper weapon/ammo.
That means you also thing xbow is over-nerfed.
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I have plenty of practice without using sights. I am not going to try to shoot something in the head 50 yards away without sights. That is boring and unrealistic. I use the weapons in game as I would when I use a real firearm. Point shooting(not using sights) is only accurate to a max of 7 yards. I point shoot when zombies are in my face, not halfway across the map. As far as long range pistol shots, there are people that can do that as well.
There's a reason why I never play farm and mountain pass after I get the achievements. So I usually fight zeds within range, so for me, I dont have much problem of sights of M14.
I only have a problem shooting crawlers in the head when they are right on me. Otherwise, I can usually kill them with one 9mm headshot. Like I said, I don't like the M14 sights, so I rarely use it. If it had a scope or better sights, I would use it more. I don't really like the laser, either. You don't really have to give me strategy on using the rifles, I have 950 hours in this game with over 60k headshots. I have used the M14 effectively, I just hate the sights so much that I rarely use it.
If you cant get use to anyone of the sights of the M14, and you said you cannot hit the head without sight further than 7 yards, are you really sure you use it effectively?
I have played with people who are really good supports, and small stuff can still get to you at times. These are very good players with hundreds of hours in the game, so they aren't just random n00bs.As for the small zeds, that is what a commando is for, but like I said, everyone can help shoot the small stuff.
Well, commando after nerf? I seriously doubt a well played commando can kill smalls better than well played support considering support still instan kill up to gorefasts after penetration. Commando still not a bad perk tough.
You don't have enough ammo to kill them all by yourself. M14 takes 10 headshots on a pound, a scrake is 7, I believe. You also mentioned shooting sirens and husks with it. I am talking about HoE, though. I do believe that the ideal is one rifleman sharp and one xbow sharp, these do seem to work really well together. I am not saying the LAR is a bad weapon at all, it is great, but the rifles can complement the bow.
And most of the time while you are still shooting the clot in front of the siren, she is killed by the support beside you. Husk also. And I dont lay farm and mountain pass, so again, there will not be any husks "across the map" that cannot be handled by support.
And I still really hate the idea of having two same perks in a game. The game should work fine with 6 different perks. So things like "droping scrakes and fps fast by having two xbow sharpshooters" is just wasting man-power.
No, I don't believe that. It is fine except for the ammo count.
So you want a buff. If you dont think it's over-nerfed, why you want a buff? You think the damage is fine. But let me remind you AGAIN, xbow get nerf in damage, total ammo, starting ammo, selling price and ammo price (as the nerf starting ammo).
There's a reason why I never play farm and mountain pass after I get the achievements. So I usually fight zeds within range, so for me, I dont have much problem of sights of M14.
I only have a problem shooting crawlers in the head when they are right on me. Otherwise, I can usually kill them with one 9mm headshot. Like I said, I don't like the M14 sights, so I rarely use it. If it had a scope or better sights, I would use it more. I don't really like the laser, either. You don't really have to give me strategy on using the rifles, I have 950 hours in this game with over 60k headshots. I have used the M14 effectively, I just hate the sights so much that I rarely use it.
If you cant get use to anyone of the sights of the M14, and you said you cannot hit the head without sight further than 7 yards, are you really sure you use it effectively?
I have played with people who are really good supports, and small stuff can still get to you at times. These are very good players with hundreds of hours in the game, so they aren't just random n00bs.As for the small zeds, that is what a commando is for, but like I said, everyone can help shoot the small stuff.
Well, commando after nerf? I seriously doubt a well played commando can kill smalls better than well played support considering support still instan kill up to gorefasts after penetration. Commando still not a bad perk tough.
You don't have enough ammo to kill them all by yourself. M14 takes 10 headshots on a pound, a scrake is 7, I believe. You also mentioned shooting sirens and husks with it. I am talking about HoE, though. I do believe that the ideal is one rifleman sharp and one xbow sharp, these do seem to work really well together. I am not saying the LAR is a bad weapon at all, it is great, but the rifles can complement the bow.
And most of the time while you are still shooting the clot in front of the siren, she is killed by the support beside you. Husk also. And I dont lay farm and mountain pass, so again, there will not be any husks "across the map" that cannot be handled by support.
And I still really hate the idea of having two same perks in a game. The game should work fine with 6 different perks. So things like "droping scrakes and fps fast by having two xbow sharpshooters" is just wasting man-power.
No, I don't believe that. It is fine except for the ammo count.
So you want a buff. If you dont think it's over-nerfed, why you want a buff? You think the damage is fine. But let me remind you AGAIN, xbow get nerf in damage, total ammo, starting ammo, selling price and ammo price (as the nerf starting ammo).
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I like everything about the M14 but the sights. It is a really good weapon, and fun to use. I have used it before, but I just can't get over the crappy sights. If that was fixed, I would definitely use it a lot, and it might even become my favorite weapon. It is a shame that the sights suck.
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Like I always said, SCAR, xbow or even the old day chainsaw and LAW is not TAHT BAD. Just bacuse players think they are overpowered doesn't mean they need "that much" nerf.
I use LAW and chainsaw before they are buffed sometimes. Just for fun. But if I want to win, I normaly dont use them. Cos they make thing 10 times harder. Again, not undoable.
And if we look at how much time it takes to rebuff the chainsaw, LAW and make fire axe and machete useful again, I believe we should pay more attention to the problem. I remember when chainsaw was nerfed, a bunch of people come out and try to "act smart" to state why the chainsaw need that nerf. And after ALLLLLLL these time, more and more people start to realise that chainsaw is really useless, and luckly TWI finally rebuff it.
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For the most part I like the balance decisions in the latest patch.
The only gripe I have is the ridiculous price of the pipes:
I agree with this statement and it's precisely why I think the pipe bomb price must be lowered, or preferably have the demolitions discount on pipes increased. Before the pipe bomb was a real bang for the buck, now it's a monumental waste of money, especially nwo that grenades have been buffed.
It's good that you do that, but there are several oversights to this:
1) That tactic is only feasible most of the time on wide, open maps where demolitions is already ineffective. In smaller maps like Biotics Lab (which is my favourite map), sirens tend to pop around corners. Since corridors in such maps are limited in length and you need to place pipes such that you're not in the detonation radius yet close enough to function as last line defences, the pipes are placed relatively close to the front line.
This means that when a siren is spotted, she's already right in front of a berserker, firebug, commando or support. She generally doesn't open her gob unless she's within attacking range, and since you can't:
a) cancel her scream attack by killing her while she's screaming, or
b) prevent her from screaming when you do kill her,
this means that quite often when you see the siren, you're already too late to save the pipe bomb. Note that I'm not saying that it's impossible to kill a siren before she makes a noise.
2) You could place pipe bombs once you see something that needs to be blown up by the pipe like a fleshpound or scrake as someone else mentioned earlier, but again, this just isn't feasible on CQB maps:
a) corridors are narrow, and since you can't clip through your teammates a la l4d, quite often you might prevent teammates from backpedalling and get them killed
b) if a fleshpound is spotted, your job as demo is to kill anything that will distract sharpshooters from doing their job; if you are ****ing around blocking teammates' movement trying to place a pipe bomb, you'll only end up blowing yourself up as the fleshpound comes within triggering range and removing yourself as an extra gun to remove distractions.
3) Unfortunately, you too are human. Just because you aim for sirens and husks doesn't mean that you can guarantee that you'll be able to save the pipe most of the time. If a siren pops around a corner in Biotics Lab you only have a split second to dispatch her before she destroys the pipes, and that's discounting the high % that there will be other zeds in the way, as well as whether there are more immediate threats in your vicinity, like ninja crawlers that spawned from under the floor.
I had another point but I completely forgot what that was.
The only gripe I have is the ridiculous price of the pipes:
I agree with this statement and it's precisely why I think the pipe bomb price must be lowered, or preferably have the demolitions discount on pipes increased. Before the pipe bomb was a real bang for the buck, now it's a monumental waste of money, especially nwo that grenades have been buffed.
It's good that you do that, but there are several oversights to this:
1) That tactic is only feasible most of the time on wide, open maps where demolitions is already ineffective. In smaller maps like Biotics Lab (which is my favourite map), sirens tend to pop around corners. Since corridors in such maps are limited in length and you need to place pipes such that you're not in the detonation radius yet close enough to function as last line defences, the pipes are placed relatively close to the front line.
This means that when a siren is spotted, she's already right in front of a berserker, firebug, commando or support. She generally doesn't open her gob unless she's within attacking range, and since you can't:
a) cancel her scream attack by killing her while she's screaming, or
b) prevent her from screaming when you do kill her,
this means that quite often when you see the siren, you're already too late to save the pipe bomb. Note that I'm not saying that it's impossible to kill a siren before she makes a noise.
2) You could place pipe bombs once you see something that needs to be blown up by the pipe like a fleshpound or scrake as someone else mentioned earlier, but again, this just isn't feasible on CQB maps:
a) corridors are narrow, and since you can't clip through your teammates a la l4d, quite often you might prevent teammates from backpedalling and get them killed
b) if a fleshpound is spotted, your job as demo is to kill anything that will distract sharpshooters from doing their job; if you are ****ing around blocking teammates' movement trying to place a pipe bomb, you'll only end up blowing yourself up as the fleshpound comes within triggering range and removing yourself as an extra gun to remove distractions.
3) Unfortunately, you too are human. Just because you aim for sirens and husks doesn't mean that you can guarantee that you'll be able to save the pipe most of the time. If a siren pops around a corner in Biotics Lab you only have a split second to dispatch her before she destroys the pipes, and that's discounting the high % that there will be other zeds in the way, as well as whether there are more immediate threats in your vicinity, like ninja crawlers that spawned from under the floor.
I had another point but I completely forgot what that was.
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Anain, when spot an fp as a demo, you SHOULD M32 him to death. Not rely on sharpshooters. You kill the pound 10x faster by hitting the body. Sharpshooter need to hit the HEAD and still kill that pound slower than you do even with M14.
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Yeah, usually I do that when it's already raged and is coming my way. More often than not though, when I spam m32 first, the FP survives all 6 direct hits and my teammates are too busy enjoying the scenery to help (I play on public servers a lot). Might be lag, dunno what it is, but I like a pipe and one or two m32s to the head more.
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