Capture Points Based on Effort %

[Reise]

Basically if capture points remain a staple of the game, make it so the people who worked the most to turn an objective get rewarded more than the guy that showed up right before the point was taken.

Right now Ostfront has a problem with people shooting to the top of scoreboards because they show up on time to take credit for other peoples' work.

The guy that killed 5 enemies on the way in and dies before the cap finishes is rewarded less than the guy that just sits there and waits for the bar to fill. Or the guy that conveniently showed up in his stead after the area's clear and you're waiting for the respawn ticker to finish.

It really bites to do a lot of grunt work actually dropping bodies for your team, only to catch a bullet and watch as the guy who did squat end up with a higher score than you.

 

[AgresywnySpawacz]

Basically if capture points remain a staple of the game, make it so the people who worked the most to turn an objective get rewarded more than the guy that showed up right before the point was taken.

Right now Ostfront has a problem with people shooting to the top of scoreboards because they show up on time to take credit for other peoples' work.

The guy that killed 5 enemies on the way in and dies before the cap finishes is rewarded less than the guy that just sits there and waits for the bar to fill. Or the guy that conveniently showed up in his stead after the area's clear and you're waiting for the respawn ticker to finish.

It really bites to do a lot of grunt work actually dropping bodies for your team, only to catch a bullet and watch as the guy who did squat end up with a higher score than you.

Yes, maybe it will annoy small group of people, but most of players don't give a s%#t about their score. No offence

IMHO maybe if you couldn't view scoreboard, people won't be so stresfull or nervous and will play the game like any other.

Just play for fun, not for score.

 

[cucamonster]

Basically if capture points remain a staple of the game, make it so the people who worked the most to turn an objective get rewarded more than the guy that showed up right before the point was taken.

Right now Ostfront has a problem with people shooting to the top of scoreboards because they show up on time to take credit for other peoples' work.

The guy that killed 5 enemies on the way in and dies before the cap finishes is rewarded less than the guy that just sits there and waits for the bar to fill. Or the guy that conveniently showed up in his stead after the area's clear and you're waiting for the respawn ticker to finish.

It really bites to do a lot of grunt work actually dropping bodies for your team, only to catch a bullet and watch as the guy who did squat end up with a higher score than you.

I agree, some players only want to stay killing and when an opportunity of make easy score shows up, he jumps in without help ****.:

 

[Nar6]

Just play for fun, not for score.

Yeah ! I have nothing else to add..

 

[213]

so you want them to write a bunch of parameters to account for the circumstances surrounding a player's contribution compared to others in the general vacinity relative to effort, and then have all the data calculated and transferred to the server for up to 64 players.

yeah i'm sure they'll get right on that.

 

[Zetsumei]

Give additional points for killing while being in a cap zone and for killing enemies within the capzone. Next to that look how long people were in the capzone for giving out points.

 

[Reise]

How did I know I'd get people saying score doesn't matter?

If RO had no goals to shoot for it would have far less people playing it, you can be sure of that. Scores quantify a player's progress and contribution.

I'm simply proposing that people are adequately represented in their score. Players showing up for the last half second of a capture should not be awarded the full capture score. On the flip side, players who die after holding 95% capture shouldn't be screwed out of their capture score either.

The capture points could be separated, too, like DoD. But that's still not very accurate in regards to just how much they're contributing to the team.

 

[Floyd]

Scores approximate a player's progress and contribution.

Fixed that for you

In a nutshell, that is my problem with trying to do anything too elaborate. There are just far too many variables involved to do anything else other than a grand generalization. "Scores for contribution" will always be an approximation and there will always be an arguement about whose contribution was more valuable in capturing (or team benefit). Tons of what ifs or what abouts?

What about the rifleman off to the side guarding the flank that allowed you to be in the cap for (eg) 3 minutes. You die, he sprints in to secure the cap for the team. You want to get more credit than him?

What if some guy in the cap does nothing but hide for 10 minutes. He sneaked off while fighting was going on around an objective that needed to be capped first. After that he kills only those enemy that come looking for and find him. Yet, an MG in the back has been keeping the defender's approach clear allowing enough other teammates to get into the cap for the capture. Are you saying the efforts and attrition of those teammate's trying to get to the cap are less of a contributing factor to capture than the guy who sneaked off early? And in contrast, the MG'er never planned to get in the cap, but his efforts were monumental in allowing the team to even get to the capzone.

And define "close to the objective". A key location within sprinting distance? 5 meters? Variable? Why not 6 meters? Or eyesight range?

There is no answer that pleases everyone or that rewards everyone equally based upon their value to the task at hand. That 'value' is too subjective. The points given for capturing as it is now are not. Perhaps arbitrary at times, but not subjective. If you are in the cap you get points. If you are not, you don't. Nothing subjective about that.

If points are more valuable to a given player than winning the match, then each time the player plays he will adjust his style to whatever gives him the most points. If that means being in the capzone as many times as possible, then he'll do his best to be there. If on occasion, one of his teammates reaps the fruit of his labor, then so be it. He'll try and try again to get in the cap the next time. Over time he'll be in more than not and his scores will consitently reflect that.

If I understand what I've read about RO2, there will already be some additional incentives for teamwork and following orders. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

 

[Reise]

You have to admit that the current system is just as wide open for such things to seep through.

Not everything can be accounted for, but it could be a lot better than it is in Ostfront. It's not a be-all-end-all solution but it's a step in the right direction I think.

 

[Grobut]

so you want them to write a bunch of parameters to account for the circumstances surrounding a player's contribution compared to others in the general vacinity relative to effort, and then have all the data calculated and transferred to the server for up to 64 players.

yeah i'm sure they'll get right on that.

Give additional points for killing while being in a cap zone and for killing enemies within the capzone. Next to that look how long people were in the capzone for giving out points.

Zets has the edge there, in truth a system like this doesen't have to be needlesly complicated or calculate a whole bunch of things, a simple system that says "if the player was inside the capzone when he made a kill, he gets more points" would work reasonably well, and is no problem to code, it's just a couple of boolean values that have to be defined.

What about the rifleman off to the side guarding the flank that allowed you to be in the cap for (eg) 3 minutes. You die, he sprints in to secure the cap for the team. You want to get more credit than him?

This is also a good point however, because i know i have done good work for my team outside of the capzone, taking out enemies from a flanking position they wheren't expecting fire to come from, making sure the enemy coulden't hold their most advantageous defensive positions.

So yeah, the scoreboard may turn out a bit iffy regardless of what direction they take it in, it's just never going to be perfect unless you have an actual intelligence present to judge the events, and that's not about to happen for sure.

 

[Nimsky]

The score system could be reworked by recognizing the player's contributions. For example, a machine gunner supports his attacking team by staying back and killing every enemy who enters the capzone his team tries to cap. So for example, the attacking team starts capturing but the other team tries to push back and prevent the cap. If the machine gunner (outside the cap) kills an enemy that is trying to prevent the cap, he could get a bonus point for that. For example he'd get 2 points instead of 1 for each kill.

However, I don't want to see text on screen that screams: +2 DEFENDER KILL BONUS!

The same could be applied to the defenders. If you kill an enemy that is trying to capture one of your capzones, you get 2 points for that instead of 1. Or a bonus for shooting an enemy that is about to throw a shambeh bambeh on the objective.

Score does matter in RO2, what with the ranking system. Floyd makes good points, but it's worth considering to rework the score system for RO2. I'm sure TWI is doing that already.

 

[<animal>INSTINCT]

I like Zet's idea, just add in new parameters making all actions that take place within, or involving a capzone worth more. As for time spent in the capzone, you just calculate how much of the cap bar was moved because of your avatar, apply the point value x amount you moved the bar... TADA!!! instant new way to calculate cap points

 

[Floyd]

I like Zet's idea, just add in new parameters making all actions that take place within, or involving a capzone worth more. As for time spent in the capzone, you just calculate how much of the cap bar was moved because of your avatar, apply the point value x amount you moved the bar... TADA!!! instant new way to calculate cap points

So being only in the capzone gives qualifies you for more points? If not, how does one tell if a defensive/offensive kill was viable to the cap in question. By distance? Who sets the distance and by what criteria? People will just dissect the maps, find the zones and play accordingly. (offensively and defensively)

The score system could be reworked by recognizing the player's contributions. For example, a machine gunner supports his attacking team by staying back and killing every enemy who enters the capzone his team tries to cap. So for example, the attacking team starts capturing but the other team tries to push back and prevent the cap. If the machine gunner (outside the cap) kills an enemy that is trying to prevent the cap, he could get a bonus point for that. For example he'd get 2 points instead of 1 for each kill.

However, I don't want to see text on screen that screams: +2 DEFENDER KILL BONUS!

The same could be applied to the defenders. If you kill an enemy that is trying to capture one of your capzones, you get 2 points for that instead of 1. Or a bonus for shooting an enemy that is about to throw a shambeh bambeh on the objective.

(Just using your text as an example, not picking your idea apart)
Again, what determines the value of the contribution? And who decides who was trying to cap? Why doesn't the defender get more points for taking out the MG or the pesky rifleman outside of the cap that are keeping a lot of people from even getting close? etc.

And then giving everyone extra points for doing things in and around the cap will just end up with everyone having higher scores. The net result being the same.

Ultimately it'll be up to TW to determine what their vision of the goals and flow of the game are and to work the score accordingly. e.g. Is teamwork their primary goal. Or completing objectives with a strong bent toward teamwork? Visa versa? They are introducing several new gametypes, so I'm sure there will be something for everybody. I can't wait to see what they've done.

 

[Zetsumei]

So being only in the capzone gives qualifies you for more points? If not, how does one tell if a defensive/offensive kill was viable to the cap in question.

Considering people can select spawns somewhat now and you have a squad leader, that system could be used to determine what cap zone someone was/is aiming for.

Scores and ratings are always determined by measuring data, and doing some assumptions and predictions based on that data. Models by definition of the word model are not equal to reality. The thing is there will be a scoreboard, and there will be stats. Its better to think of methods that can be used to determine how good someone works for his team, than having a scoreboard that nobody trusts in accuracy of prediction.

Personally I still think that a heavier emphasis on actually killing enemies and gaining ground are the things that should be encouraged two parts that together if everybody focusses on that will ensure in a team that works towards the winning goal. Although with the current systems its impossible to measure someone's individual influence on territory, although I hope that an improved cap system will come with that.

Again for me the fairest score based system is influence based the higher someone's territorial influence the higher the score for disposing of him. Together with a bonus for your self with territorial influence. This encourages people in a way to put them selves in an advantageous position and dispose of enemies in an advantageous position. Creating a naturally balanced system. Where exploitive behaviour of the system leads to behaviour similar in real life.

 

[Snuffeldjuret]

I seriously hope TW has reworked the whole score thingy, a lot. Playing to win and playing to get high score should not make a difference. There is nothing more to say than that . This is not even close to rocket science.

 

[Reise]

(Just using your text as an example, not picking your idea apart)
Again, what determines the value of the contribution? And who decides who was trying to cap? Why doesn't the defender get more points for taking out the MG or the pesky rifleman outside of the cap that are keeping a lot of people from even getting close? etc.

And then giving everyone extra points for doing things in and around the cap will just end up with everyone having higher scores. The net result being the same.

Ultimately it'll be up to TW to determine what their vision of the goals and flow of the game are and to work the score accordingly. e.g. Is teamwork their primary goal. Or completing objectives with a strong bent toward teamwork? Visa versa? They are introducing several new gametypes, so I'm sure there will be something for everybody. I can't wait to see what they've done.

You're over-thinking the whole suggestion.

All I want is to keep people who bounce in for the last few % of a capture to not be awarded the full capture points. Simple as that.

It'd also be simple to work out partial capture credit to players who were alive (and in the zone) for most of the capture. Only for a successful capture of course.

If Tripwire wanted to break their brains trying to figure out how to give people points for doing EVERYTHING that helped the team, they definitely could. All I want is credit for captures given where it's due.