Aim zoom is killing the game for me

[Atomskytten]

Hello, I am an old Red Orchestra Ostfront 41-45 player that loved that game due to its realistic gameplay with long and bitter firefights that required good team coordination and fire and maneuvre and that provided for challenging battles that rewarded thinking and teamplay over fast player reflexes and superfast mouse manipulation. However in Rising Storm: Vietnam, a game that I really want to love to play, I am not getting the same good experience as I did in RO Ostfront due to the aim zoom function which has increased the long range effectiveness by reducing the player's overall situational awareness compared to RO Ostfront, that took the opposite approach, and made the game a campfest compared to that.
From my point of view it is simply not fun to be constantly killed by enemies making shots that would be far harder to make in RO Ostfront while camping in positions that are hard to spot without using binos or aim zoom/focus thus turning the game flow into a one dimensional experience where trying to push through chokepoints covered by camping and aim zoomed enemies makes advancing an almost suicidal zerg rush style endavour with far higher casualty probability than would be the case in RO Ostfront where chokepoints where balanced by the lack of aim zoom. This problem also exists in Heroes of Stalingrad and that made me stop playing that game simply because I don't find any fun in the one dimensional campers vs suicidal rushers style of gameplay the aim zoom mechanic forces upon the gameplay through its ultralow shots fired per enemy KIA compared to RO Ostrfront and IRL.


I know that I can change the settings in the ini file but that is not a real solution to my issue as it only affect my POV while limiting the ability to make long range shots which overall places me in an even worse situation than before.

I don't know if I am the only player that have this issue with the game but it would have been nice if this game had not repeated the same approach that Heroes of Stalingrad did.

 

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

I agree, the aim zoom has been taken too far in this game, esp. since they increased it even further in a recent patch not too long ago which also made it different between weapons, as if you suddenly got better eyes if you were holding an AK47 as opposed to a PPSh-41. Pretty ridiculous.

 

[Floyd]

Sadly, you're beating a dead horse. RO:OST gameplay is no more. A couple of us have started playing RO:OST again on occasion. Man what a fun and challenging game that was. Using John's own words, "CoD ruined a generation of FPS players." (or something to that effect.)

 

[®omano]

The famous interview here https://www.pcgamer.com/call-of-duty...a-2-interview/ the quote was

Call of Duty "has almost ruined a generation of shooter players"

 

[screwthis]

I agree, I don't like the zoom. I also wish that foliage had a view range of more than 1 foot.

 

[Floyd]

The famous interview here https://www.pcgamer.com/call-of-duty...a-2-interview/ the quote was

Call of Duty "has almost ruined a generation of shooter players"

Thanks

 

[Jagdwyre]

Sadly, you're beating a dead horse. RO:OST gameplay is no more. A couple of us have started playing RO:OST again on occasion. Man what a fun and challenging game that was. Using John's own words, "CoD ruined a generation of FPS players." (or something to that effect.)

The misconception here is that ADS zoom(or otherwise) is something only less realistic fast paced shooters have. On the contrary it's often shooters that focus more on realistic aspects that have higher zoom than those that do not.

For instance base ironsight zoom in a game like Battlefield(take your pick) or CoD(take your pick) is actually lower than what you find in RO2, RS2, or even the Arma series. And is probably about on par with the "shift zoom" of games like Squad or Insurgency. Then of course you have games like Counterstrike which feature basically no zoom for most weapons. Part of the reason games like that or CoD don't want a lot of zoom is because the vast majority of the game is CQC engagements, and the fast paced nature of the gameplay facilitates that a wider FOV is advantageous for tracking your targets than a narrow(zoom) FOV would. Of course in those games you can still use weapons with scopes if you so choose.

In fact, out of the 4 "realistic shooter" examples I mention the one I've seen the most aggravation over is actually Squad because it has low zoom for the engagement ranges often used.

There are two reasons why a zoom function can be considered more "realistic" than "unrealistic" in a game. The first is your restrictive FOV while looking at a monitor. Obviously you don't have the same FOV as you would IRL so to compensate this the FOV is "stretched" while not aiming, then significantly narrows when aiming to get closer to what you'd actually see.

Now, you can certainly make the argument that games give you so much zoom that what you're seeing is actually larger on your monitor than it would be if you looked at the object IRL from the same distance. And you'd likely be right. But there's an additional reason to favor more zoom rather than less, and it's the fact that you're not looking at a real object. You're looking at a mess of pixels, and the smaller something gets on your screen the less information your eyes have to work with down to, sometimes, only a couple dozen pixels at a range that IRL you'd easily be able to identify the shape of whatever you're looking at. Since obviously your eyes don't use "pixels."
Interestingly, because of this people who play Squad at 4k resolution, for instance, have an objective advantage at identifying things(and people) at range over the majority who are using 1920x1080 monitors. They simply just have more information to work with on their screen(and there are screenshots to prove easily prove this).

Anyways that's the two primary reasons, at least to my knowledge, that even realistic shooters opt for zoom functions.

 

[Floyd]

Still beating a dead horse. This was gone over ad nauseam in the past.

 

[Atomskytten]

The misconception here is that ADS zoom(or otherwise) is something only less realistic fast paced shooters have. On the contrary it's often shooters that focus more on realistic aspects that have higher zoom than those that do not.

For instance base ironsight zoom in a game like Battlefield(take your pick) or CoD(take your pick) is actually lower than what you find in RO2, RS2, or even the Arma series. And is probably about on par with the "shift zoom" of games like Squad or Insurgency. Then of course you have games like Counterstrike which feature basically no zoom for most weapons. Part of the reason games like that or CoD don't want a lot of zoom is because the vast majority of the game is CQC engagements, and the fast paced nature of the gameplay facilitates that a wider FOV is advantageous for tracking your targets than a narrow(zoom) FOV would. Of course in those games you can still use weapons with scopes if you so choose.

In fact, out of the 4 "realistic shooter" examples I mention the one I've seen the most aggravation over is actually Squad because it has low zoom for the engagement ranges often used.

There are two reasons why a zoom function can be considered more "realistic" than "unrealistic" in a game. The first is your restrictive FOV while looking at a monitor. Obviously you don't have the same FOV as you would IRL so to compensate this the FOV is "stretched" while not aiming, then significantly narrows when aiming to get closer to what you'd actually see.

Now, you can certainly make the argument that games give you so much zoom that what you're seeing is actually larger on your monitor than it would be if you looked at the object IRL from the same distance. And you'd likely be right. But there's an additional reason to favor more zoom rather than less, and it's the fact that you're not looking at a real object. You're looking at a mess of pixels, and the smaller something gets on your screen the less information your eyes have to work with down to, sometimes, only a couple dozen pixels at a range that IRL you'd easily be able to identify the shape of whatever you're looking at. Since obviously your eyes don't use "pixels."
Interestingly, because of this people who play Squad at 4k resolution, for instance, have an objective advantage at identifying things(and people) at range over the majority who are using 1920x1080 monitors. They simply just have more information to work with on their screen(and there are screenshots to prove easily prove this).

Anyways that's the two primary reasons, at least to my knowledge, that even realistic shooters opt for zoom functions.

The discussion whether aim zoom or non aim zoom functionality is the more realistic mode is rather moot now since aim zoom won, alas. The result of that has been less interesting gameplay due to far more unrealistic firefights due to the wildly increased hit probability it introduces compared to a fixed high FOV gameplay that offers closer to real life situational awareness and hit probability simply because the smaller size of the targets makes it harder to hit at longer ranges.
To say that one is more realistic is simply wrong as they are both equally realistic depending on the gameplay perspective but aim zoom is not more realistic than non aim zoom it just favours sight picture realism over a situational awareness closer to. but still far from, real life hit probability hit rates focused realism and will intrinsicly have two distinct gameplay styles very diiferent in game pace, available tactics and firefight duration where, roughly speaking, aim zoom function provides for campier gameplay where the teams will try to win by using long range carefully aimed shots because close combat and fire and maneuvre, compared to non aim zoom, is far less likely to succeed due to higher hit probabilities and where non aim zoom functionality provides for a more dynamic offensive gameplay where the primary method of defeating the enemy is through close combat because fire and maneuvre is more likely to succeed compared to aim zoom functionality games.
The problem with all FPS game are the limited map area compared to real life battlefields and in this context aim zoom is in effect reducing the available area for maneuvering and for providing support/suppression fire simply because the players that are maneuvering are allways at a distinct disadvantage against the players that are stationary and thus able to employ effective fire at ranges the maneuvering players are not able to respond to due to the aim zoom function. Without aim zoom it is easier to plan and execute maneuvre under fire and coordinate fire and maneuvre for obvious reasons and that in effect makes the effective size of the maps appear larger than maps of equal size where aim zoom function is available.
As a side note a non aim zoom mode is a good representation of what it is like to be under the influence of adrenaline as that limits the mental ability to focus on far away objects.