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Some insane concepts that should change

Emeritus1974!

Member
May 11, 2017
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Or at least I hope so.

To begin with, the current arty/scouting seems to be more than overpowered (on both sides, obviously more in favor of the GI).
Snipers, Tunnels and more in general all troops, even with some limitations (inside building or hidden and not shooting) get spotted too easy.

For the GI this translates into EASY spawnkilling via snipers that messes up the VC ability to spawn closer to an objective to defend. On the other side, the GIs spawn on their leaders mostly, so this problem is handicapping them big time, not to mention doing so through unfair advantage.

The moment a tunnel is spotted, aside from the spawnkilling becoming easy (and legit), the whole team is notified and this ruins the game. Absent a radioman close to a Squad Leader, only the commander should be notified and it's the commander himself that should place the markers on the map. This should not be automatic as it is now.

It's like all players have a radio, worse... a RADAR and this is completely wrong.

If I spot an enemy and mark him, he should be visible only to my closest teammates on map (and hud) because I'm calling him out with my voice not with the radio. So, this is where the radioman comes handy because if he's with a squad leader he can take contacts from the commander and then it's the SL's job to mark those contacts so that only his closest teammates can hear him (presumably, it should be his own squad primarily).

Guys... if you fight by the objectives, every X minutes you're killed by arty, when you spawn, you get spawnkilled by either arty or sniper or camper OR spooky. It's not exactly how it should work, especially considering some of the out-of-map resources can kill you even if you are inside a building.

If some intel is not removed from the game, we may as well be playing some other crappy game with radar all around you. You can't really hide, every X minutes the scout/plane will spot you. Some of the new maps "work in progress" are really huge and dense with foliage and this way of handling contacts is already ruining them.

I find tedious and surpassed the concept of calling the scout, seeing everything on map like he could in one instant report 30+ contacts and their exact locations (you can even see them moving which is completely crazy if you ask me. Not only they see too much, they deliver instantly and they also deliver a live-action report).

This is simply too much and damages the VC a lot. Look at how traps work... a pointman sees everything around him even if he's sprinting... he should be WALKING to see something and only if it is very close to him.

In a nutshell: I think the game needs to improve on the "visibility" settings because they are very unrealistic (I'm not asking for 100% realism am I) and we'd all benefit from a game where the coordination between commander and squad leaders VIA RADIOMEN gains importance. It already looks like a Team Deathmatch on some maps (Territories style) with commanders camping by a radio and everyone else fighting. The GIs push ahead and spawn on leader and every X minutes there's a strike.

Tedious... short-sighted way of designing gameplay.

Final note: The patch is good but the M16 has a too high rate of fire.
According to me a MAJOR component here is missing: the M16 was prone to jamming very easily. The new maps are great (I've been playing them in beta stage all along so I already knew) but Firebase and Compound must be restricted in team size.

Compound is totally unplayable as VC and Firebase is a bad version of how Team Deathmatch worked in games of 15 yrs ago.
 
Lemonater47;n2302860 said:
You don't realise How OP tunnels can be when the US doesn't know where they are.


And where else can they be?
In Territories they are between one series of objs and the next and in the chaos that ensues you're guaranteed someone will spot them and mark them. On hill you don't even need to... the choppers will do it. Single sniper... 50 kills, all spawnkills. The game needs to evolve past this BS. There's too many things that should never be seen on the map.

Like I tag an enemy 100 m away and the tag appears on the screen of a teammate who's 300 m away. How did I tell him if neither of us has a radio? First things first when you tag an enemy only those within 50m of you should see the red diamond... the rest, well... is about implementing a solid logic with the Commander ->radioman->Squad Leader.
 
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About tunnels,it is true that in territory the tunnel placement isn't as free as one would think. It depends on the maps but in cu chi or hue they end up most of the time in the same positions, like the behind the tree birding the main road in cuchi, or the the very lateral edges of hue. And when you do have more freedom to put them like hill, the choppers spot the right away.
But I must admit I have no solution to propose for this issue.
 
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What they could do is copy other games' concepts... and then end up with a clone of a game that uses a later and better engine, so I'm afraid it's a necessary change for the DEVs. We're not talking of a 10k player game here and I'm tired of being killed because I am visible by a plane that comes in the air every x minutes and spots me and has me killed AGAIN after he spotted and had me killed x minutes earlier.

So here's what happens: take an example like An Lao Valley (the new Territories map). You get ready to swoop the hill to attack D and you're spotted by a scout plane and killed by a sniper who had no clue where you were before the plane was in the air. You spawn... get back there, and are killed by artillery. Meanwhile your Squad Leader has built a tunnel but someone else has tagged him... you spawn and you get spawnkilled. You spawn again back at one of the fixed spawn points... get to roughly the same spot but of course... neither your original teammates, nor your original plan can ever work (and will ever work) the same... and while you're thinking about it, X minutes have passed... and there comes the scout plane again, then the sniper again, then the arty again...

... it's a LOOP you understand what I'm saying?

The game is being heavily constrained by these concepts and needs to move on and away from them. New maps don't help much with longevity issues of this kind. We simply see too much on the map, too easily. The artillery is called over and over the same places again and you get spawnkilled or killed in an unfair way over and over again.

It's not just the tunnels... you can make the choppers spot them less easily. What matters is that when they are spotted, they are delivered to the commander through radio/radioman and that the only way for the grunts to see them on map should be from commander to squad leaders via radio/radioman again.

The engine is apparently capable of judging distances: there's no way I can report a tunnel I see, by mere voice, to a guy who's 300 meters away on the other side of the map. It's really like if you have a good 5-button mouse, you have a complete vision of the battlefield, which is also in real-time, and this is ***COMPLETELY WRONG*** in my opinion.

I hope the DEVs are reading this.
 
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gimpy117;n2303056 said:
i think the biggest problem is choppers and how they are used. the loach auto spotting stuff should be fixed

I disagree with this entirely. Honestly I think both teams aren't using their faction's mechanics to their full potential. Simply diving down to prone (quickest way) will cause you to become "hidden" preventing you from being spotted by recon or the Loach. Similarly I don't think people realize that on requesting LZs (TLs & SLs can do this) it can turn red if their are enemies nearby, etc. Game is still new to a lot of people.
 
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Beskar Mando;n2303091 said:
I disagree with this entirely. Honestly I think both teams aren't using their faction's mechanics to their full potential. Simply diving down to prone (quickest way) will cause you to become "hidden" preventing you from being spotted by recon or the Loach. Similarly I don't think people realize that on requesting LZs (TLs & SLs can do this) it can turn red if their are enemies nearby, etc. Game is still new to a lot of people.

so you have to prone all the time the loach is over? that really slows down VC ability to move
 
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How can one "learn" and use "full potential" if the scheme of gameplay is essentially a team deathmatch with an arty kill you can't help about every X minutes?
All I see is people shooting each other, spawncamping, placing tunnels in the same places. The only difference between winning and losing is the number of players doing this correctly.

I find a game with these mechanics very short-lived. You're not supposed to be visible to an airplane if you are in the jungle only by going prone and if you shot you'd still be totally invisible to it, as opposed to a real-time exact location marker which is magically transferred to all players (giving an unfair advantage to those who have a mouse button to spare for the quick map call). This cuts out the connection between commander and SL and SL with his squad mates.

Considering the game is a fresh release, I'd be laying down plans to make an overhaul of these concepts before it's too late. We're not talking of ArmA simulation type but at the very least if you must defend C, I doubt the enemy would need an artillery strike anywhere else. And you would rarely be somewhere else too... so it's a choke point with a problem that needs to be addressed.

As a consequence of that, unless you're lucky (and you have time to take cover), you'll be killed at C every X minutes... and there's nothing you can do about it. Have a look at Hue. The US call the spooky, the VC commander shoots it down... as if VC had so much air defenses to unerringly shoot down 20 spookies in the same battle. What kind of logic is this? Lure the VC commander to shoot down the scout plane and then call the spooky? That's alright... it will work once or twice with the same commander... so is this a proper learning curve? Maybe for a 3yr old.

On top of that, with the 2x XP boost, several cheaters have been spotted. I think the DEVs were right to assign this task to EAC so they can focus on gameplay issues. I know there's glitches and bugs but these things are easy to solve while gameplay is a long, painstaking process that better be given priority sooner than later.

The issue is simple: the tunnels have to be more or less in the same places, therefore you see them or not, when you have a strong VC activity in a quadrant you know there must be a tunnel since you also know where the default spawns are. The arty ALSO is more or less in the same places, sometimes these places are so few that it's basically ONE place (the objective). I feel the need to do something to earn that artillery (i.e. arty loads and is ready according to the progress of tickets and the same should be for tunnels and air assets/defenses) rather than just wait. And then you're forced to be there... you get killed... you spawn and get back there only to be killed again by a spooky or by a napalm strike?

Can't you see the loop?

Supremacy is where the game is at its worst and Skirmish at its best in my opinion. Supremacy is really the bad copy of a team deathmatch... an outdated game style on an outdated engine. There's a lot of work to do but I'm happy with what I have now. I don't want the DEVs to think otherwise... yet, I see some weak spots I'd like to see addressed.

The shotgun is still overpowered, the sks is a peashooter in comparison while the M16 has a firerate that beats reality while never jamming and a much lower recoil than the improved AK but still the only way to kill at more than 50m is the single shot... which means the spreading of bullets is wrong (completely wrong). A short AK burst should be enough to kill anyone because if you aim at the chest, one bullet will hit the chest, another the shoulder and a third one the head. This doesn't happen and it's very bad (more or less it's the same but less evident with the M16 because it has a smaller recoil). The worst of them all is the flamer.

I've met flamer guys I've had to pump entire clips of AK into them before seeing them fall. All of the other times you hit them a couple of times but if they press the button you're still dead (and they are not). The flame goes through objects and as far as I know the fact I've never been Tked by a flamer speaks loads about how easy it is to use modelled as it is now.

However I didn't mean to derail... this is not a topic about weapon modelling but about game concepts. Map-wise Firebase and Compound are unsuitable for 64 players and I'm surprised this hasn't been changed yet.
 
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Emeritus1974!;n2303253 said:
I find a game with these mechanics very short-lived. You're not supposed to be visible to an airplane if you are in the jungle only by going prone and if you shot you'd still be totally invisible to it, as opposed to a real-time exact location marker which is magically transferred to all players (giving an unfair advantage to those who have a mouse button to spare for the quick map call).
Short-lived? RO2 has the exact same mechanic and has an active community for nearly 6 years now.

The shotgun is still overpowered, the sks is a peashooter in comparison while the M16 has a firerate that beats reality while never jamming and a much lower recoil than the improved AK but still the only way to kill at more than 50m is the single shot... which means the spreading of bullets is wrong (completely wrong). A short AK burst should be enough to kill anyone because if you aim at the chest, one bullet will hit the chest, another the shoulder and a third one the head. This doesn't happen and it's very bad (more or less it's the same but less evident with the M16 because it has a smaller recoil).
What the hell are you even talking about? The M16 has too high of a rate of fire? What? The M16A1 had a pretty high cyclic rate of fire. And killing at "more than 50m" as if past 50 meters is "long range" in the world of rifles, okay there bud. An "AK burst killing anyone" is assuming your target is FEET away from you and you dead on center mass. The first and second rounds may hit, after that it's a crap shoot.

Hell, the only time I've even heard of troops being instructed on how to use bursts on people were Russians in Afghanistan. They'd aim at the legs(not the chest) and open up a burst in hopes a few of the rounds would work their way up the body, this was always presumably only in very close range/ambushes. And that was with AK74s, not 47s.

In other words what you talking about here in relation to the firearms in the game is just complete nonsense.
 
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