Mapping Contest Phase 1 Winners
- Thread starter [TW]Wilsonam
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![[TW]Ramm-Jaeger](/data/avatars/s/0/2.jpg?1568638684){kind=avatar}
All I can say to the guys upset about how long the judging took is that we'll work hard to do better for the next phase. It's REALLY difficult to squeeze map judging into our schedule of game development and updates (one thing that side tracked us was busting our nuts to get Steam workshop support in to help support the mod community for our games), and we always underestimate just how much work judging a map contest is. You don't just play the map, you have to play them over and over again to really get a good feel for them and to give all the maps a fair shake.
Then you have to spend hours writing up feedback. I personally spent 6 hours today writing up feedback for the mappers. Detailed feedback with screenshots, and suggestions that could very well help the mappers win in the next round if they take the suggestions to heart.
So it is my hope that those that wish they had done better take a deep breath, cool down, listen to the feedback we'll be giving them tomorrow, and give it all they've got for phase 2. You can't win if you don't try, and in the end it's really the community that wins if you don't give up!
Then you have to spend hours writing up feedback. I personally spent 6 hours today writing up feedback for the mappers. Detailed feedback with screenshots, and suggestions that could very well help the mappers win in the next round if they take the suggestions to heart.
So it is my hope that those that wish they had done better take a deep breath, cool down, listen to the feedback we'll be giving them tomorrow, and give it all they've got for phase 2. You can't win if you don't try, and in the end it's really the community that wins if you don't give up!
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http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?p=1123660#post1123660
Page 9 is the interesting part.
Don't know what to say really. Now the 2 most supported and liked custom maps until the deadline were Coldsteel and Bridges. Deadline passed and Bridges did not support CD.
Now if TWI did read this thread and Harley's statement, I would've thought they are smart and EITHER let Harley's map not enter the phase 1 of the contest and make it become a strong contender for phase 2. OR, let it enter phase 1 and change the rules of it (no CD support required), but then not let it win.
I totally understand the frustration of Drecks and also Six_Ten. I totally cannot understand TWI on this yet again. Right now, the results of phase 1 don't look like a contest, but rather a giveaway to the community. Like: "If the crowd wants to hear Bridges win, well then Bridges wins".
That's a cheap shot in my eyes. Cheap on gathering player support. And a stupid mistake to the modding community. I know that if I was Drecks, I would right away abandon the game and sink any map project I am currently working on. I would simply feel betrayed.
The changes of the rules of the mapping contest had to happen though in TWI's eyes, because otherwise there were what, 3-4 maps fullfilling all conditions? According to the initial rules, I could have gained a position in the money spot for submitting a RO1 remake with 2 objectives, poor graphic and gameplay that supports countdown. Not because it was good, but because it fullfilled the requirements and was lacking valid submissions.
Finally:
11_HARLEY_11, congratulations for winning. Your map is outstanding. Please don't assume that I am not loving and appreciating your work. It's just frustrating to see that no matter what happens to this game, it's always going wrong.
Page 9 is the interesting part.
Don't know what to say really. Now the 2 most supported and liked custom maps until the deadline were Coldsteel and Bridges. Deadline passed and Bridges did not support CD.
OK thanks guys. I must have read it wrong.
Oh well if they're the rules then I shouldn't be given any special treatment for being a dumba$$ and not reading properly.It's not fair on the guys who did enter the CD version.
Now if TWI did read this thread and Harley's statement, I would've thought they are smart and EITHER let Harley's map not enter the phase 1 of the contest and make it become a strong contender for phase 2. OR, let it enter phase 1 and change the rules of it (no CD support required), but then not let it win.
I totally understand the frustration of Drecks and also Six_Ten. I totally cannot understand TWI on this yet again. Right now, the results of phase 1 don't look like a contest, but rather a giveaway to the community. Like: "If the crowd wants to hear Bridges win, well then Bridges wins".
That's a cheap shot in my eyes. Cheap on gathering player support. And a stupid mistake to the modding community. I know that if I was Drecks, I would right away abandon the game and sink any map project I am currently working on. I would simply feel betrayed.
The changes of the rules of the mapping contest had to happen though in TWI's eyes, because otherwise there were what, 3-4 maps fullfilling all conditions? According to the initial rules, I could have gained a position in the money spot for submitting a RO1 remake with 2 objectives, poor graphic and gameplay that supports countdown. Not because it was good, but because it fullfilled the requirements and was lacking valid submissions.
Finally:
11_HARLEY_11, congratulations for winning. Your map is outstanding. Please don't assume that I am not loving and appreciating your work. It's just frustrating to see that no matter what happens to this game, it's always going wrong.
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My apologies--that was very, very, very poorly stated on my part. The idea I meant to convey is that the ultimate criteria important for the spirit of the contest is quality, not compliance.
I have no mapping experience and can't even begin to judge which map should be first, second, etc... but at least as far as deciding between which maps should and shouldn't be eligible for a competition, I believe that the spirit of the contest should come first.
I am a college athlete, a fencer. There is a US fencing association rule that at independent competitions where you compete as an individual, you can't have any school-related logos on your equipment. In practice, this rule is un-enforced, because not all of us students have personal equipment and some of us are issued school equipment and can't compete in anything else. In theory, however, a referee could walk up to us before, during, or after the competition and forbid us from participating. However, the logo has zero effect from an ethical standpoint, or on how good of a fencer an athlete is.
Didn't mean to sound accusatory at all. Sorry!
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Congrats to all the winners. I havnt had a chance to play all the maps, but hopefully this will change soon. As for Bridges, it deserves its victory. As fine a map as I have seen, granted I have the time to play it to its conclusion.
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WOW!! Thanks so much TripWire!
I must admit reading the first post I was like this!!
then I was like....
then it was more like....
and more of this.....
Thanks to TWI for holding this comp and to the community for generating more maps to play. I imagine it wasn't easy to judge when there's a diverse range of maps with different strengths to take into account.
Thanks for all the supportive comments and congratulations to all the mappers in both categories!
Obviously this is really awkward for me, reading a couple of people's reactions.
I'd like to make it clear that I didn't deliberately leave off CD, I honestly thought it wasn't needed for phase 1, I thought it was part of the different requirements for phase 2. It wasn't until well after submitting the map for the competition that I realised it was required.
Even though I'm very grateful to TWI for including me in the contest, I understand why Drecks would feel frustrated about the rules being changed regarding CD so late in the game. I'm open to any resolutions that the community and TWI come up with, if it gets down to that.
The main thing for me is that the map was what I'd hoped it would be. Enjoyed.
Thanks again TWI, and thanks everyone for playing and supporting my map.
I must admit reading the first post I was like this!!
then I was like....
then it was more like....
and more of this.....
Thanks to TWI for holding this comp and to the community for generating more maps to play. I imagine it wasn't easy to judge when there's a diverse range of maps with different strengths to take into account.
Thanks for all the supportive comments and congratulations to all the mappers in both categories!
Obviously this is really awkward for me, reading a couple of people's reactions.
I'd like to make it clear that I didn't deliberately leave off CD, I honestly thought it wasn't needed for phase 1, I thought it was part of the different requirements for phase 2. It wasn't until well after submitting the map for the competition that I realised it was required.
Even though I'm very grateful to TWI for including me in the contest, I understand why Drecks would feel frustrated about the rules being changed regarding CD so late in the game. I'm open to any resolutions that the community and TWI come up with, if it gets down to that.
The main thing for me is that the map was what I'd hoped it would be. Enjoyed.
Thanks again TWI, and thanks everyone for playing and supporting my map.
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Hey guys, congrats to all the winner that worked hard in that damn editor
I wish I could still find time to map but you gotta have priorities in life!
I wish I could still find time to map but you gotta have priorities in life!
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WOW!! Thanks so much TripWire!
I must admit reading the first post I was like this!!
And so you ought to remain! Congratulations.
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Congrats to all entries, original and remake. You are all contributing to the ongoing improvement and enjoyment of this game. Even maps that didn't make it onto the podium, pat yourselves on the back. It is because of the hard work of you and your kind that we now have so many fantastic maps, mods and mutators, and so many more to look forward to.
Kudos to TWI for supporting the community and giving that extra incentive. I don't know of many devs that go to the lengths you have gone to encourage custom content. You have given us a brilliant game which is simply getting better and better with your ongoing support.
On another note, this:
I personally love all the entries on the podium and I am most certainly not out to get anyone, but I think that changing the rules after the submission date is pretty dodgy. Rules, despite the cliche, are not made to be broken - by competitors or organisers.
We Aussies have a notion of giving everyone a 'fair go'. That is to say, that everyone should be given an equal opportunity, that there should be a level playing ground, and that fairness should prevail. In my humble opinion, changing a ruleset post-submission does not comply with this notion. TWI, it's your competition and your money to give away, but I'm going to be a bit of a Jiminy Cricket and say, 'Not really fair.'
Kudos to TWI for supporting the community and giving that extra incentive. I don't know of many devs that go to the lengths you have gone to encourage custom content. You have given us a brilliant game which is simply getting better and better with your ongoing support.
On another note, this:
I personally love all the entries on the podium and I am most certainly not out to get anyone, but I think that changing the rules after the submission date is pretty dodgy. Rules, despite the cliche, are not made to be broken - by competitors or organisers.
We Aussies have a notion of giving everyone a 'fair go'. That is to say, that everyone should be given an equal opportunity, that there should be a level playing ground, and that fairness should prevail. In my humble opinion, changing a ruleset post-submission does not comply with this notion. TWI, it's your competition and your money to give away, but I'm going to be a bit of a Jiminy Cricket and say, 'Not really fair.'
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After a few hours sleep I can't really say it changed my point of view. And reading this quote
gave my earlier post more value.
When you do it do it good. To mappers this is serious and they will try all to make a good looking level. Polish it and check all other criteria written.
So when I submitt a map for a contest I will try to make everything in the map work like and polish as in stock maps. These criteria are mentioned in the contest rules.
And so I did. As I see it now and we forget the Countdown rule. I can't see where I have to polish and tweak Coldsteel some more when it has all required RO HOS features, good performance and full of detail and did not make it to a map which did not have full working spawnprotection, no map zone textures, and needed more polishing and detail afterall.
Only to add these mapzone textures and tweak them was a pain in the butt
To get rid ot that Spawnprotection Red screen thing was the same. You can get rid of it by remove your spawnprotection but is that the solution ? So i seeked another solution for it and it worked out fine.
I really hoped this Phase 1 contest was done better. But as you mentioned above. You guys "will work hard to do better for the next phase" Tells me enough. I already have taken multiple deepbreaths. Not only during the contest. But as I explained above when judged like its judged now I don't see any reason to give more of what I got for phase 2.
I tried to deliver a map as closed as finished as possible with all available gametypes. It turned out it wasn't enough.
As it seems criterias have some flexability I don't see where to give more. For now I have said all I wanted to say.
gave my earlier post more value.
When you do it do it good. To mappers this is serious and they will try all to make a good looking level. Polish it and check all other criteria written.
So when I submitt a map for a contest I will try to make everything in the map work like and polish as in stock maps. These criteria are mentioned in the contest rules.
And so I did. As I see it now and we forget the Countdown rule. I can't see where I have to polish and tweak Coldsteel some more when it has all required RO HOS features, good performance and full of detail and did not make it to a map which did not have full working spawnprotection, no map zone textures, and needed more polishing and detail afterall.
Only to add these mapzone textures and tweak them was a pain in the butt
To get rid ot that Spawnprotection Red screen thing was the same. You can get rid of it by remove your spawnprotection but is that the solution ? So i seeked another solution for it and it worked out fine.
I really hoped this Phase 1 contest was done better. But as you mentioned above. You guys "will work hard to do better for the next phase" Tells me enough. I already have taken multiple deepbreaths. Not only during the contest. But as I explained above when judged like its judged now I don't see any reason to give more of what I got for phase 2.
I tried to deliver a map as closed as finished as possible with all available gametypes. It turned out it wasn't enough.
As it seems criterias have some flexability I don't see where to give more. For now I have said all I wanted to say.
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I have to thank each and every one of the mappers who entered this competition, and every mapper who has either released a map or is working on one, even if it wasn't entered.
I agree that rules set before a deadline should have been followed, but at the same time, I think it's true that the competition needed every entry it could get, because at the moment not many people are working on maps - and I can kind of understand the relaxing of some rules to enable more entries.
However, there are many elements that make a map 'good' and while some mappers had to make sure some elements (let's say technical) conformed to the rules, other mappers didn't have to spend that time, and could focus more on other elements (let's say cosmetic), and I can imagine that some mappers didn't even enter their maps because they didn't think they were polished enough in all respects that the rules required.
The problem here is that alienating these guys by modifying the rules after the deadline puts RO2 on shaky ground in the future because we all want new maps to play. These people are the future of RO2 and they should be encouraged in every way possible!!
Having said all that, congratulations to all the winners, and thanks again for making RO2 a better game because of your maps!
I agree that rules set before a deadline should have been followed, but at the same time, I think it's true that the competition needed every entry it could get, because at the moment not many people are working on maps - and I can kind of understand the relaxing of some rules to enable more entries.
However, there are many elements that make a map 'good' and while some mappers had to make sure some elements (let's say technical) conformed to the rules, other mappers didn't have to spend that time, and could focus more on other elements (let's say cosmetic), and I can imagine that some mappers didn't even enter their maps because they didn't think they were polished enough in all respects that the rules required.
The problem here is that alienating these guys by modifying the rules after the deadline puts RO2 on shaky ground in the future because we all want new maps to play. These people are the future of RO2 and they should be encouraged in every way possible!!
Having said all that, congratulations to all the winners, and thanks again for making RO2 a better game because of your maps!
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A big well done to all those who entered.
I really hope that we see some of these maps being pushed into an official TWI community mappack.
I personally thought ColdSteel was by far the most complete map entered into the competition.
Very polished, all the relevant gametypes and more over it plays extremely well.
Thats not saying that other maps were not similarly accomplished I just personally thought Coldsteel was the most complete package according to the rules.
Anyway I am just very happy so many talented mappers decided to enter and I really hope many of them move onto phase 2.
I really hope that we see some of these maps being pushed into an official TWI community mappack.
I personally thought ColdSteel was by far the most complete map entered into the competition.
Very polished, all the relevant gametypes and more over it plays extremely well.
Thats not saying that other maps were not similarly accomplished I just personally thought Coldsteel was the most complete package according to the rules.
Anyway I am just very happy so many talented mappers decided to enter and I really hope many of them move onto phase 2.
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110%, 2nd place and still not good enough...
That's our Dutchman! ;=)
Drecks, you're really needed in this community and your work is valued by us all, keep it going and be the Dutch we knew.
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Because your maps are always fun to play. I really like Cold Steel, and I've spent many hours in RO1 enjoying Zhitomir.
Because I am looking forward to the remake of Rakovice.
Because your experience in mapping is valued.
Just to name you a few reasons.
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Drecks is right, TWI is wrong.
Changing CONTEST rules after starting a contest is just not done.
Sorry [TW]Ramm_Jaeger but your answer to this is just very cheap.
If TWI can change the rules, they can also change the prizepool. So the least you can do is raize the prize pool and lets say add 2 more winners places.
It may sound a bit low, but your game is getting great maps for cheap money now.
I'm confident other contestants like Drecks did not do it only for the money, also for the honour and recognition. The community is clearly recognizing their efforts. Now since TWI changed the rules, they should show some love to those contestants as well, don't you think?
Add 2 more winners in both categories, give em 200$ and 150$ + an RO2 T-shirt + the recognition they deserve from you TWI. I guess that would not weigh too much on your corporate budget ?
Changing CONTEST rules after starting a contest is just not done.
Sorry [TW]Ramm_Jaeger but your answer to this is just very cheap.
If TWI can change the rules, they can also change the prizepool. So the least you can do is raize the prize pool and lets say add 2 more winners places.
It may sound a bit low, but your game is getting great maps for cheap money now.
I'm confident other contestants like Drecks did not do it only for the money, also for the honour and recognition. The community is clearly recognizing their efforts. Now since TWI changed the rules, they should show some love to those contestants as well, don't you think?
Add 2 more winners in both categories, give em 200$ and 150$ + an RO2 T-shirt + the recognition they deserve from you TWI. I guess that would not weigh too much on your corporate budget ?
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Congratulations to every mapper! In my eyes there are only winners. It's you guys that keep this game fresh and alive. Thank you for your efforts!
(I do agree some of you are not treated fair by TW though. I'm not going to say anything more, or I can dive for some cover).
cheers
(I do agree some of you are not treated fair by TW though. I'm not going to say anything more, or I can dive for some cover).
cheers
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