• Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/

"What we are up to" - Feb 3rd edition

You should have said that from the beginning instead of arguing based on personal bias.



From what I remember, originally it was supposed to be two presets: relaxed realism (now RO2 regular) and normal/realism (what seems to be RO classic) with a third option to the server owner of customizing anything. TWI has since been quiet on the third customizable option for reasons I don't know. Maybe they ran into problems? Not sure. But going back to what was originally planned would seem to solve all problems. It's really odd to see such a lack of clear direction from the team week after week, especially when original plans seemed perfectly fine.


correct. What I was getting at is that we would now have ( if we ever see the complete customize mode ) four modes, two of which ( the current two ) would be extremely close. And if you just let players tweak their hud, say to turn off certain bits of info, they could get the current 'hardcore' mode while playing the relaxed mode. ( Save the pistol that I just remembered ).


Also, to who ever down voted my and amikaners post, why dont you grow some cahonies and add to this discourse?
 
Upvote 0
It appears almost 75% of all the forum members "been in the army" lol xD


It also appears that 99.5% have been award winning game developers,coders,mappers, lawyers and business marketing exec's. :D

(all stats courtesy of Nether Regions Inc.)

And 90% of those are combat hardened expert marksmen that can consistently drive tacks at 200 yards while under threat of loss of life.......
 
Upvote 0
Oh +1 there. The Realism mode in my opinion, is not really realism. That is why I was suggesting that the implementation you mentioned would be great for it(i.e. it would make it better).

No its not, but doesn't seem like RO classic is going to be really realism either. This is why I think the introduction of RO classic mode is a good thing since now RO1 vets who dislike realism can't complain about changes that they will hopefully make to realism after RO classic comes out to make it more realistic. Sure some those changes will be shared with RO classic more effects from stamina and more effects from wounds like leg wounds slowing movement speed. Others can be different like no kill messages to confirm kills, a stamina bar that lets you run realistic distances for a fit soldier instead of an obese asthmatic, but has worse effects when its lower/empty, masking exact reinforcement numbers left for the enemy, etc.

Obviously true combat realism will never be achieved in RO because of the value difference in a human life vs a virtual characters life. In real life its rare for soldiers to stay exposed for long if at all, which leads to them taking quicker shots by popping from behind cover for a seconds shooting at someone behind cover which leads to more misses. If your target is standing 100m away (or even 150 or 200m) in the open the first bullet is likely to him from a rifle. RO1 and RO2 take two different approaches to dealing with this problem, RO1 adds extra inaccuracy and sway so that your less likely to hit your target standing in the open giving you a firefight that would usually only happen if both targets were quickly popping from behind cover and firing when your not behind cover. RO2 takes a different approach which adds a cover system to let you hide and pop, blind fire more accurate weapon accuracy for rifles the 100m (although a bit fast iron sight times). this means if your not using cover and minimizing your exposure your going to die quickly if enemies are nearby. Even then cover is vulnerable to flanking, or accurate shots when you pop, its not going to protect you from all bullets, just more than if you were standing out in the open. Since we can't do it realistically its really just two different approaches to try to be realistic which you prefer depends on the player there's no right answer in this regard. Although the other features of the mode also affect its realism.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Comrade Kaizer
Upvote 0
Mm. Wrong.

Realism aka simulation fidelity is one thing that can in fact be objectively determined. And limiting in-game visibility to something moderately nearsighted guy without glasses would see isn't that realistic. Ditto for complaints about "too fast gameplay".. I've linked before to the study where sprinting speed was measured for full combat gear with body armor and just clothes. In-game speed falls between the two so I don't see a problem with base speed. It would needs adjustment on stairs, rubble and so on, of course. Also falling flat on your face is completely missing, try running down a flight of stairs with a stick in your hands sometime..

You should know that Simulator fidelity can be summed up into 3 points.

Physical fidelity - Things being physically the same as reality
Perceptual fidelity - Things being perceived the same as reality
Behavioral fidelity. - Things/People behaving the same as in reality

(and for all 3 there are loads of generally accepted testing methods being applied to various simulators today).

The effect of changing zoom is not something your eyes can do in reality. And functionally your eyes are able to view with a 180 degree fov.

Going for real physical fidelity would mean that both things show the same size as in reality, fill up your whole real fov as in reality, and being as detailed as you can maximally see in reality. Preferably combined with stereoscopic vision.

Zoom got some advantages in the realistic sense such as:
- Ability to see things at a size comparable to the realistic size if your monitor fills in around 45 degrees of your real life fov.
- Ability due to seeing things closer to realistic size to see enemies when zoomed at a realistic size, allowing you to possibly spot enemies at a realistic size.
- Ability to see things with more detail (still not enough) so your eyes can easier discern between things at realistic distances.

Zoom got disadvantages in the realistic sense as well.
- Things in reality don't ever change size with your eyes. You always see things in the same size.
- You do not have a multitude of views, you see things in a big and detailed size while having a wide field of view at the same time. At long range you can still use your peripheral vision, and at short range you can still make out loads of detail. You do not have to choose which property of your eyes you are going to use, you use it all at the same time.

-------------
In the end the primary reason for picking whatever viewing method you use comes down to taste, based on what you want the end user to act like and experience.

Personally I prefer an average view, so I never have to switch between viewing modes. So like in real life personally I can use my real eyes to decide to scan the entire picture or focus on something specific on screen.

However if zoom is implemented, it should be such that the end user can control when he thinks a wide fov is more important or a bigger picture is more important. Whether you are running or looking down Ironsights.

Next to that, an issue that can easily occur with zoom is that, the zoomed in view becomes completely useless for short range, and the wide fov view becomes completely useless for long range. As normally both views are available at the same time, its probably best to try and find an optimum in the differences between modes.

Such that for the most common engagement ranges (and in stalingrad that is quite short range) that you can still use your wide fov effectively to spot enemies or other things. Using your narrow fov primarily for further identification of the target, and being able to pull of a better aimed shot.

However when zoom is constricted to when you are standing still, it acts no different than a sniper rifle does in other games. And there whether realistic or not, most people don't like playing a game where every body acts and is forced to act like a sniper.

When zoomed is always enabled when going into iron sights, with no way to disable or enable zoom at will. Then at close quarter combat you are missing your wide peripheral view making the system work against you.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Mike_Nomad
Upvote 0
Just keep listening for future news/reveals from Yoshi

Just keep listening for future news/reveals from Yoshi

Though, now we'll have 3 seperate game modes and I think it'll be an unnecessary complication. Isn't it a good idea to get rid of "Realism" and replace it with "RO Classic"? Realism mode was supposed to be "RO Classic" after all.

No, the realism mode was intended to be... realism mode. "classic" is intended for those old hands who want more of the original RO feel to the game - warts and all, in some cases.

Also, remember this is going into beta. They made add or remove things before it goes "final."

Exactly... That is the point of dropping it into the Beta again.

Isn't that a bit 'going against' the results of the community poll, where "more realism" scored over 50%? But anyhow, the list looks promissing!:IS2:

Back to the first point (and subsequent rantings): Classic and Realism are (certainly for now) two different things. We may find they converge over time - in the office, we don't think so. Pretty much all of us prefer the Realism mode over the Classic. We'll see how the two things develop.

Sounds excellent Yosh, is there any news on being able to have native German/Russian voices when you're on that team instead of the English rendition.

Under discussion. See more of Yoshi's posts over the next couple of weeks.

I always read before I post. "Network issues" is pretty vage,don`t you agree? I`m asking about fixing the net code. I didn`t hear a word about lag compensation did you?

You know our views on lag comp. It potentially creates at least as many issues as it solves, so we're homing in on "network issues". And as said many times before, a lot of those issues are caused by overloading the servers. Plenty of work still going on around these topics - and will be more.

I'm complaining about the fact developers are wasting time on something that won't improve the selling points of RO2 for me IE; realistic ww2 combined arms warfare.

We already had two modes, where one was unneeded and died off. Instead of improving realism mode they're splitting the already small community to die-hard OST-players | new people and those seeking what I was seeking - the realistic ww2 combined arms experience. I fear there are more of the former than latter.

Well, I will agree with you, that I would have preferred they actually improved Realism mode instead of making a new mode. But that is TWI's decision.

I will disagree with you that ROHOS is a more realistic experience, but as has been pointed out, that is more in a players perception of things.

I will also disagree with you that I want a ROOST copy.

For 4 months i have been waiting for all bugs to be ironed out, Refinement of the game play and extra content.

Which, if you actually stopped to read the original post, rather than entering the fray with rant mode set to "On" in a few cases, you would see that this is also going on alongside the work on Classic mode. See Yoshi's upcoming posts for more on those topics. Realism mode is/will be worked on at the same time.

Yoshiro, can you give us a "time window" for releasing the new beta with "Ro Classic"?

I think he did - this stuff will start dropping into the Beta over the next few weeks. More detail as it happens.

What I learned from this entire post is TWI will never be able to please everyone. No matter what TWI does, someone will always find fault in it. There will never be that perfect game that satisfies everyone and you will never play a FPS today, or 10 years from now that is "realistic".

Bingo :)
 
Upvote 0
Thanks TW I'm really happy all these will be implemented. I almost ditched RO2 completely beacuse of the initial design. Now there's a hope to get all the players back and create some sensible gameplay.

Would there be possibility of penalting the speed of running when drastically taking turns to prevent the players running around too fast inside the building while the speed remains the same if you run straight and uninterrupted (on an open field). It's obvious in real life you can't retain the same speed of runing if you swerve too much. Would be good if running up the stairs was slower too. And hopefully you'll get convinced to slightly hamper the players start momentum. So that it urges players to not advance too quickly but to use covering methods more than the risk of running and shooting as it's currently advantegous and prevalent in RO2.

Overall I hope the changes to this mode won't involve just tweaking and adjusting few parameters but that we will regain what made RO1 so great. That cumbersome feeling of slowly working and advancing the objectives, and where an overbold approach straight into a capzone would usually end up in failure so players have to try to flank and use more strategic ways.

Also I hope the loadouts will have realistic number of smg and mgs like on good old Kaukasus where you had 2 smgs and 1 mg per team and the battle felt just amazing.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Project reality is not what RO should go for, aside of its clumsy implementation into the BF engine. There is no teamplay, only point playing it with clans. Suppression and the other effects work because there is few and short engagements. That's not how RO is, never were.

The way they are going now is for the best imo. But how it will work out is uncertain, but I am looking forwards to with tension and happiness. I doubt I'll give twi a third chance...

We clearly aren't playing the same Project reality.... No team play, are you kidding?

Stick together in a squad or you die alone, mics are almost always preferred and if you don't have one a squad normally ignores you.
 
Upvote 0
Which, if you actually stopped to read the original post, rather than entering the fray with rant mode set to "On" in a few cases, you would see that this is also going on alongside the work on Classic mode. See Yoshi's upcoming posts for more on those topics. Realism mode is/will be worked on at the same time.

This needs to be HAMMERED into everyone here...
 
Upvote 0
No, the realism mode was intended to be... realism mode. "classic" is intended for those old hands who want more of the original RO feel to the game - warts and all, in some cases.

Back to the first point (and subsequent rantings): Classic and Realism are (certainly for now) two different things. We may find they converge over time - in the office, we don't think so. Pretty much all of us prefer the Realism mode over the Classic. We'll see how the two things develop.

Right here is a perfect example of a business trying to make money by catering to twitch console clients and failing at it upon release, now trying to make amends getting the pissed client base back.

Now its just official so we know what they think and what type of game they wanted from the beginning, which is 100% their say so it makes sence and I give them credit for which brings me to say that I hope all of you pissed off clients can now see it and all you twitch console clients can be pissed of or simply remain back in Reaslim mode.

Me, I wont lie I like semi trolling here, you guys are fun. I grinded 400 hours in RO2 via TWI logic in Realism mode and I'll probably grind 400 hours more in Classic mode.

Right onto my main point. Eather play TWIs game or go uninstall it.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
I'd like to know under what conditions they play it under "in the office", because if you have say 10 guys sneaking around with bolts thats kinda different to 64 players with very relaxed class limits. I wonder how they knew it would work with large numbers when they did their testing pre release
 
Upvote 0
I'd like to know under what conditions they play it under "in the office", because if you have say 10 guys sneaking around with bolts thats kinda different to 64 players with very relaxed class limits. I wonder how they knew it would work with large numbers when they did their testing pre release

Big difference there, true.

Still, agree or not with Alan, personally I'm glad he leant his voice to the discussion.
 
Upvote 0
Which, if you actually stopped to read the original post, rather than entering the fray with rant mode set to "On" in a few cases, you would see that this is also going on alongside the work on Classic mode. See Yoshi's upcoming posts for more on those topics. Realism mode is/will be worked on at the same time.

Dude....4 months. How else am i supposed to react when yoshiro has been saying so much but you guys have delivered so little.

And then to sweeten it for me you seem to have made "classic mode" a paralleled priority to the general fixes and adding content. ...fix the bloody game first!! ...and ignore the classic mode it is stupid.

Dont come on to my board and start telling me how it is, this if for me to vent and unless you have a good response that will calm me....dont start telling me im the one not listening..or reading correctly.
 
Upvote 0