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Immersion Overhaul Mutator Information

my little wish...
change weapon-role system for classic ( or make it as option for classic mode ), because stock one is 100% balanced ant this is absolutely wrong. Before suggest my system i will write approximate numbers of produced ww2 weapons, so you can understand:
_____
MP-40 1,2-2 million ( different sources say different number );
PPSh-41 over 6 million;
SVT-40 1,62 million, over 1 million before the war was started;
PPS-42 44 000 before Leningrad blocade was finaly broken in 1944, production was started at 1942 summer in Leningrad siege.
PTRS - 63 000 to the end of 1942, 190 000 for all war;
PTRD - 202 000 to the end of 1942, 281 000 for all war;
PzB-39 - about 40 000 ( 25 000 before the war was started );
MkB-42 - 5200 - 11 800 ( different sources ), 316 for 1942, 25 for november ( keep in mind that Stalingrad battle was started in summer 1942 and 6th army was blockaded in november ), first oficial use was in Kholm poket that is far away from Stalingrad;
SVT-40 scoped - about 50 000.
HHL-3 magnetic mine - 8500 for 1942, production started in november.
My suggestion is also based in watching lots of photos, i have seen that some weapons were captured often.
So, my suggestion about weapons-roles:
____
REMOVE MKB42 ( because it couldnt get in Stalingrad theoretically ), PPS42 ( because it couldnt get in Stalingrad and even if some PPS were here, it would be VERY RARE, just single things ), G-41 scoped ( because even if it was in Stalingrad, it was really too rare. i didnt find even a single photo of german sniper with scoped g-41, i am not talking about proofs that it was in Stalingrad ), HHL-3 ( because it is absolutely 100% wrong and it wasnt in Stalingrad. ) and german captured overpowered PTRS ( for known reasons )
Soviet side:
TL - mosin/mp-40/PPSH-41
1 SL - mosin/mp-40
another 2 SL - mosin
another 1 SLs - PPSH-41, mosin;
5 Assaults - PPSH-41;
1 elite assault - AVT-40, MP-40, PPSH-41
1 elite assault - MP-40, PPSH-41;
3 elite riflemen - SVT-40, mauser 98k, mosin;
2 MGunners - DP;
1 sniper - mosin with 4x scope
1 elite sniper - SVT-40 3.5x, mosin 4x;
2 sappers ( on some maps) - + mosin

German side:
TL - MP-40, mauser, PPSh-41
1 SL - MP-40, mauser 98k
2 SL - MP-40, SVT-40, mauser
1 SL - MP-40, PPSh-41, mauser;
2 Assaults - Mp-40
2 elite assaults - MP-40, PPSH-41
1 elite rifleman - G-41, mosin, mauser;
3 MGunners - MG34;
1 Sniper - mauser ZF41
1 elite sniper - mauser ZF39
2 sappers ( on some maps ) - + mauser
___
AT -class
AT class is very bad made thing in ro2 and you know why. Sadly, at this moment is just impossible to make good AT classes in ro2 even by adding/removing weapons and reducing/increasing role number. It can be done only when PTRD will come. If we would have PTRD and PzB39, AT-classes would be something like that:
1 german - pzb39/PTRD
1 soviet elite - PTRS
2 or 3 soviet - PTRD
but now, without PTRD and PzB39, that should like this:
1 german - PTRS ( NOT CAPTUED "PZB"!1111)
2 or 3 soviet - PTRS
of course these " only PTRS" roles must be done only for short ( i hope ) time untill PTRD will come.
And of course AT class only for maps with tanks
P.S. dont scream about balance.. real war doesnt have it. And RS doesnt have it, everybody is happy.
:cool:
 
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REMOVE MKB42 ( because it couldnt get in Stalingrad theoretically ), PPS42 ( because it couldnt get in Stalingrad and even if some PPS were here, it would be VERY RARE, just single things ), G-41 scoped ( because even if it was in Stalingrad, it was really too rare. i didnt find even a single photo of german sniper with scoped g-41, i am not talking about proofs that it was in Stalingrad ), HHL-3 ( because it is absolutely 100% wrong and it wasnt in Stalingrad. ) and german captured overpowered PTRS ( for known reasons )
:cool:

Hmm again:
It just my opinion, so I speak for nobody else, but I
 
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We have already completed a system for weapon role changes for the next update... here is a post I made about it a while ago. It has been slightly tweaked since then by Dibbler, but the majority remains the same.

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=1284829&postcount=1014

wow nice, i see this post first time. really good that you make this, but i have several questions:
1)why do you remove AVT?
2)why you dont remove G-41 scoped? not only because its too rare, but also because all german snipers can choose it, so it is more popular than scoped mauser...
3) why you dont remove HHL3?
4) why you dont remove pps42 for same reason as mkb42?
5) will you replace your german PTRS on pzb39?:rolleyes:
 
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good luck in playing late maps about 1944/45 with G41, MkB42, t34-76, PTRS, PPS-42 but without G43, STG44, T34-86, panzerfaust, panzershreck and PPS-43.

If you dont understand me - there is no reason to say " we want play all ww2" when there is no content for all periods. Now all content in RO2 is made for Stalingrad battle period (summer1942-feb143 ), some content is missing ( PTRD< for example ), some content is wrong ( MKB42), but the closest period of content that is now in game is Stalingrad battle. And it is much better and easier to just finish 1 thing, MAKE SOMETHING ONE GOOD and then play good game about something small, but well made without complaining of bad historical accuracy; and THEN
do another periods with its own blackjack and waffen SS, its much better than doing ALL at 1 time and in result get everything, but not finished with lots of problems.

Haha you are really funny :D I don
 
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oh I forget about a AT-AT Walker and of course the Death Star OMG.
Spoiler!

I know you were kidding but that would be pretty funny.


All kidding aside, I think the game should stay in the early war. Late war thing has been done to death.
 
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wow nice, i see this post first time. really good that you make this, but i have several questions:
1)why do you remove AVT?
2)why you dont remove G-41 scoped? not only because its too rare, but also because all german snipers can choose it, so it is more popular than scoped mauser...
3) why you dont remove HHL3?
4) why you dont remove pps42 for same reason as mkb42?
5) will you replace your german PTRS on pzb39?:rolleyes:

1) Not enough of them used at time of Stalingrad

2) G41 scoped is given a 1.5x scope instead of 4x like in Classic, can be used as a Marksman Rifle. It'll be pretty uncommon in the mod due to the real problem being the 1.5x scope.

3) We will likely change this when new AT grenades / etc.. are available

4) PPS42 is available because it is common for battles outside of Stalingrad at the time (Leningrad 1942.) MkB42 *may* be put back in when we develop system to allow maps to define classes, but for next update it will stay out.

5) We will if we can. I don't think the model was ready yet.
 
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4) PPS42 is available because it is common for battles outside of Stalingrad at the time (Leningrad 1942.) MkB42 *may* be put back in when we develop system to allow maps to define classes, but for next update it will stay out.

I'm confused, Mappers can define classes and weapons those classes use. Unless the mod has changed that...
 
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1)
4) PPS42 is available because it is common for battles outside of Stalingrad at the time (Leningrad 1942.) MkB42 *may* be put back in when we develop system to allow maps to define classes, but for next update it will stay out.

Are you saying that the plan is to allow IOM to override the defined classes to all maps both custom and stock in favour of whatever the server admin decides?
 
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As it stands I could see the IOM actually being able to eliminate one of the 3 modes (classic) with its ability to customize realism into a hybrid that both classic and realism players could get behind.......What i would hope to see at some point is the elimination of all but one mode which is based on the IOM...

Yes, it is that good and certainly the potential to do just that should be what the community should push for.......RO2 needs a major shot in the arm!
 
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Are you saying that the plan is to allow IOM to override the defined classes to all maps both custom and stock in favour of whatever the server admin decides?

Sort of. The mutator will override the defined classes (here meaning roles) on all maps because it must use new roles that use the changed weapon classes (Unrealscript classes) and also to include new weapons for a particular role. It does this because no map is going to use our RORoleInfo classes from the start.

It's easy enough to copy the original roles' loadouts and simply use the new weapon classes in those. We're also creating a set of 'authentic' loadouts more akin to classic mode. Toggling between these two sets of loadouts would be an admin option.

A system allowing an admin to micromanage weapons on a per role basis would be considerably more complicated but I wouldn't call it impossible. Actually, it would be easy if those changes didn't need to be communicated to the user in the role selection menu!

It may be possible to somehow generate loadouts based on a map's existing RORoleInfo classes. I think that would be the best solution for the case when a mapper has defined his own set of roles. This way the weapon changes could be made and new gear could be added while preserving the mapper's vision for the roles.
 
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Sort of. The mutator will override the defined classes (here meaning roles) on all maps because it must use new roles that use the changed weapon classes (Unrealscript classes) and also to include new weapons for a particular role. It does this because no map is going to use our RORoleInfo classes from the start.

It's easy enough to copy the original roles' loadouts and simply use the new weapon classes in those. We're also creating a set of 'authentic' loadouts more akin to classic mode. Toggling between these two sets of loadouts would be an admin option.

A system allowing an admin to micromanage weapons on a per role basis would be considerably more complicated but I wouldn't call it impossible. Actually, it would be easy if those changes didn't need to be communicated to the user in the role selection menu!

It may be possible to somehow generate loadouts based on a map's existing RORoleInfo classes. I think that would be the best solution for the case when a mapper has defined his own set of roles. This way the weapon changes could be made and new gear could be added while preserving the mapper's vision for the roles.

Interesting premis and I do genuinely hope that it plays out that way.
My only concern would be the overriding of weapons load outs on already balanced custom maps, as an aweful lot of hard work is put into these by the authors which could end up as totally wasted if weapons simply became a free for all at an admin server level.
Thereby ruining the original design intent.

I will look on with interest as to how this feature will progress. ;)
 
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It may be possible to somehow generate loadouts based on a map's existing RORoleInfo classes. I think that would be the best solution for the case when a mapper has defined his own set of roles. This way the weapon changes could be made and new gear could be added while preserving the mapper's vision for the roles.

If I understant it right, this solution would be pefect. I hope it is possible some times.
So every mapper can edit every role like he wish. So every map could have a unique class/weapon loadout.

e.g. remove smoke nades from SL and add them to sapper, so every sapper is able to smoke a target before he try to destroy it.
Or remove At-nades from sapper when there is no tank on the map.
etc. so many options :D


But with the next update you really want to remove the Mkb-42/AVT-40 from every map?

I mean I don
 
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