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Tactics terrbile design choises that bother me to no end

Jolly Jew

Grizzled Veteran
Apr 16, 2014
94
0
israel
sorry for my hostile tone but the following problems caused me a lot of anger and broken nerves and i really need to get this off my chest.

while the game is awesome, it has quite a few horrible issues simply caused by bad choises and nothing more, problems that simply sprang from bad ideas and can easily be fixed.

*not being able to cancel bandaging . - why? is my soldier in some bandaging trance that he just has to sit still staring down the enemie's barrel? there is no reason why i shouldn't be able to stop bandaging and shoot/run even if the bleeding will continue

*not being able to melee/switch weapon while cycling the bolt - oh no, a jap is charging at me, and i missed a shot, well i better just stab hi...- nope! gotta cycle the bolt first! oh now you're dead, what a shame, if only you could interupt the bolting to melee...
and no, don't tell me to use manual bolting, you are still stuck while operating the bolt and players should not be forced to use a feature they don't like in the first place.

*not being able to see spawn protected areas. why? does it really hamper the gameplay to paint in red all the areas you are not allowed to go to? te amount of times i died because i ran into spawn protection and got shot because i ran in panic is outrageous.
the amount of times i needed to constantly fix arty marks because i didn't know what areas are spawn protected is also outrageous.


*being able to request ammo if you are not holding an MG. why? it really feels terrible to run up to a guy in the front line, risking my life in hoping to resupply an MG only to realize he was some lousy rifle that was spamming the command wheel.

*the entire reload animation canceled because in interruption in the last second.
i know it's made to prevent animation canceling that modern CoD's are so notorious for, but come on! if the fresh clip is already inside and all i forgot is to cock the gun, i shouldn't be forced to repeat the same long animation again!
do you know how frustrating it is when you think your gun is fully loaded only to charge into battle unable to shoot anything?
if it's not possible to make the game remember was stage was gun in (loaded, empty, unloaded, uncocked) then at least have the basic decency to make the cocking at the START of the reload animation

and these are just the problems that come off the tip of my head.

please explain why these problems are not fixed or what twisted logic is used to keep these 'gameplay elements' in tact

EDIT: deleted a few less important issues that everyone were focusing on
 
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*not being able to melee/switch weapon while cycling the bolt - oh no, a jap is charging at me, and i missed a shot, well i better just stab hi...- nope! gotta cycle the bolt first! oh now you're dead, what a shame, if only you could interupt the bolting to melee...
and no, don't tell me to use manual bolting, you are still stuck while operating the bolt and players should not be forced to use a feature they don't like in the first place.

in the Options you can change from Auto to manuel reload, so that you have to click the lmb to pull the bolt instead of automatically i guess that could help you with this
 
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A lot of ideas...
My opinion:
1. Artillery is fine. I love that its rather unpredictable. It was even harder in real WW2 (With sightings of probe shots etc.) to hit a target.

2. Spawn protected areas should be made visible somehow. Maybe on mapscreen if you press a certain button there?

3. Stopping bandages should black you out but it would be nice if it would be possible. On the other hand its your fault/enemies luck you dont know the surroundings.
If I would be bandaging myself I would probably take some time to get my weapon back in my hands.

4. Satchels... TKs with them is a problem for your class but I would rather see TK limits expanded than satchels made easier to use. I love them though.
 
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Apart from being able to stop bandaging mid way through the process I think the rest are part of the game's appeal - the unknown.

Perhaps bandaging could be interrupted in much the same way as reloading can be interrupted.

As for more on screen bling telling my about out of bound zones and where friendly explosives are I think player skill and situational awareness needs to come into play here.

If your team mates are throwing satchels willy nilly without communicating then its not a game design problem its a player problem.

Do we really need to be spoon fed more information?
 
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Apart from being able to stop bandaging mid way through the process I think the rest are part of the game's appeal - the unknown.

Perhaps bandaging could be interrupted in much the same way as reloading can be interrupted.

As for more on screen bling telling my about out of bound zones and where friendly explosives are I think player skill and situational awareness needs to come into play here.

If your team mates are throwing satchels willy nilly without communicating then its not a game design problem its a player problem.

Do we really need to be spoon fed more information?

what do you mean player skill and situational awareness??? there is absolutely no way to know where the enemy spawn protection is unless you played the map 100 times. there is absolutely no reason not to have red section on the minimap to indicate spawn protection
it's annoying and unrealistic as it is, so why make it even more frustrating?

again, with the satchels, what player skill? calling it out? no one listens! why should you be kicked for other player's mistakes? -and now i don't throw them at my teammates, i throw them in empty areas, and suddenly someone oblivious runs in- how will it hamper the game if you will be informed of friendly satchels 10 meters away from you?
 
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It's good that people bring these things up were they then angry or not. There are many things indeed which needs improvements and best way to make TWI know it is to write to forums.

Cancelling the bandage animation and loading animation could be nice improvements indeed. Seeing the protected areas.. I don't know, perhaps on tactical view, perhaps. Knowning the aoe of artillery barrages.. "real commanders know roughly.." well indeed, you'll learn it, I learned it. I got kicked because of friendly artillery many times when I was new, but I got better. You don't have to play same map 100 times. Ofc knowning the map and its areas helps, but you'll learn "the touch" where you can go and put your markers. Usually not on enemy spawn.
Satchels are marked in tactical view and you usually shouldnt use them to kill enemy, only to destroy obstacles. If friendlies are too close to obstacle you can ask them to move away, it usually works for me. If they don't, its up to you will you throw the satchel.

Tips for artillery using:
-Use binoculars only if you're aiming far, otherwise its faster, safer and more accurate to use orders widget.
-Pressure your squad leaders to give you artillery markers, their job is to stay at frontline providing spawns/smoke & MARKERS. Commander is at the frontline from time to time, but he doesn't allways have time to get markers or he gets killed. So, its better that SL gives markers while commanders meanwhile provides recon. "Recon up, squad leaders check your maps and give me those coordinates. Hold the marker right there SL1. SL2 could you move your marker a bit closer to objective?".
-Usually its best idea to place artillery a bit behind to objective or at least to enemy side of the objective. Now your men can get to the objective, while artillery bounds the enemy on their side of the obj. or their reinforsement route.
-Keep keen eye on map where your men are advancing. If the first barrages took out the enemy team, and your men are now capturing the obj, you should cancel the artillery.
-Allways tell beforehand where you're shooting, what kind of artillery and is what's the goal. I use naval barrage/rocket artillery sometimes, and when I do that, I tell my team to hold their ground on safe distance and take cover. When the last barrage or last rounds are going in, you can already tell your team to move in.
 
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not being able to cancel bandaging

I definitely don't like "the trance," but if you were bandaging a wound, your gun would be on the ground and both your hands would be occupied. If you noticed an enemy, it would take a couple seconds to get your gun in hand again, so I do think there should be a delay.

One option would be: you can cancel, but if you do, your gun is placed on the ground. That mixes the ability to cancel, with the realistic delay of needing to pick your weapon back up. Or the possibility of running around a corner without grabbing your gun--hope you had a sidearm, or things could get ugly! :D

You would still probably get killed most of the time, but at least you wouldn't be stuck watching helplessly as your guy is executed while in "the trance." I think the choice of grabbing your gun or running for cover would make things interesting in those situations.

not being able to melee/switch weapon while cycling the bolt

In regards to switching to your sidearm/other weapon, do exactly what a real soldier would do in that situation: drop your rifle. You can toss your rifle to the ground even mid-bolting and you will switch to your next gun. I think that's realistic and reasonable for a situation so desperate that you had to stop mid-way through cycling the action.

In regards to trying to bayonet while cycling the action, you choose to let the game take actions for you, and that comes with drawbacks. In the situation you described, in the real world, you would have made the decision to try your bayonet after you missed your shot, and you wouldn't have even started trying to cycle the action. But you give up that control when you let the game take actions for you.

If you had started cycling the action and tried to change your mind part way through, you'd probably fumble while fighting the muscle-memory of such a quick and practiced action, and then the half or fully open bolt would be hanging out the back, in the way of getting a proper grip with your right hand, which would probably distract you just long enough to get you killed. I don't think there's anything wrong with not being able to bayonet while the action was being cycled.

not being able to know the AOE of artillery barrages.

These weren't precision strikes, I think only having a rough idea of size helps compensate for the fact that the real ones would have been less precise and predictable.

not being able to see friendly satchel charges

I dislike icons and things like that on my screen, they ruin the sense of immersion. People can already see the icon with tactical view, I don't think it should be forced on people who aren't using tactical view. I've spent my fair share of time as an Engineer, I'm quite familiar with the idiots that pile on top of satchels, but I still wouldn't force an icon outside of tactical view.

One thing I do think would help, but isn't likely to happen, would be 3D VoIP. It would be more realistic, and I think more people would respond to warnings of a satchel, grenade, etc. if they knew the warning was coming from someone nearby rather than the current setup where it's just someone on their team who could be anywhere on the map. Even if you say where you put it, newer players often won't recognize where you're talking about, so a system where they knew the person talking was near them would make them far more likely to pay attention.

being able to request ammo if you are not a MG'er. why?

The reason everyone has the ammo request call is because resupply isn't actually class-specific, it's the weapon. I've been resupplied as a Rifleman because I had a BAR or LMG I grabbed off the ground. I suppose they could disable the button if you don't currently have a BAR or LMG on you, but I'm not sure how complicated that would be. I don't actually see that many people using the ammo request function though, so I rather doubt this would come in as a high priority change.
 
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What you call "terrible design choices" are for many people the appeal of RO.
The game can be brutal and not being spoon fed info or being forced to make a choice on where to bandage or not make the difference between RO and many other easier to play games.
RO is not an easy game to play and I thank TWI for that because the sense of achievement you can gain from playing this game well is incomparable to so many other more tedious fps games.

One mans meat is another mans poison as they say..;)
 
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-Pressure your squad leaders to give you artillery markers, their job is to stay at frontline providing spawns/smoke & MARKERS. Commander is at the frontline from time to time, but he doesn't allways have time to get markers or he gets killed. So, its better that SL gives markers while commanders meanwhile provides recon. "Recon up, squad leaders check your maps and give me those coordinates. Hold the marker right there SL1. SL2 could you move your marker a bit closer to objective?".

Actually, TL usually has far more freedom to get around (except for a couple of maps, like Barashka, where the arty timers are very short, or as attackers on Bridges, where the radio is way too far) than SLs do.

If a TL dies, the team loses one ticket. If a critical SL dies, the team can lose an objective or lose, full stop.

Planting markers is certainly not the most important task that SLs do, and they should focus on doing this only if it's safe or if they have an empty squad.
 
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Highlighting word "MARKERS" was only context-sensitive. I'd add the words for it if it was most important task for SL, but it doesn't change the fact that it's one of the important tasks of good SL. I have noticed many times as a SL how much easier it is sometimes for SL to pick good targets since he is the guy who doesn't have to use time for messing with the radio. If he's under heavy fire and cant pick targets, then other SL does it. I'm not saying that he should risk his spawn support for the team for the sake of the marker.
Teamleader might have good opportunity to pick targets in various maps and objectives, but this is case sensitive. Sometimes the target is behind the hill, house or something else, and he might die several times before he gets his marker. After getting the marker he has to get back to the radio and he has two choices: die or try to go back for radio which might be far away. After using recon it might turn up that his marker is not at good spot, and he has to run again to the front (unless in case sensitive matters he can reach it from the radio with binos).
Perhaps the SL is not in the spearhead of the attack , but very close to very fronline anyways. Also some of the teams SLs goes for flanks where they have very good view to put their marker to enemys reinforse route.
It's not that teamleader shouldn't pick his own markers, he should, but he can do it more often from the radio with binos and SLs can give him more markers around the map. This give you target variety and saves time when you're not dying and wasting time for respawn/running to radio. The times when commander should get involved into frontline fighting is the times between artillery cooldown. Now he can be throwning his huge smoke walls and marking the markers for future use.
Sometimes your SLs are dumb or they simply just can't get good markers because of the heavy resistance. Then you have to be satisfied with your own markers and come along with them. Still doesn't mean that you should give up with the hope of getting markers from SLs and be quiet about the matter.
Excuse my english :)
 
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What you call "terrible design choices" are for many people the appeal of RO.
The game can be brutal and not being spoon fed info or being forced to make a choice on where to bandage or not make the difference between RO and many other easier to play games.
RO is not an easy game to play and I thank TWI for that because the sense of achievement you can gain from playing this game well is incomparable to so many other more tedious fps games.

One mans meat is another mans poison as they say..;)

so denying basic game information like where there is spawn protection or forcing your dumb character to do nothing and stare like an idiot at the enemy while bandaging is realistic and immersive?
broken features are now adding depth to the game?
what the hell, if i didn't know any better i would say you are just a fanboy.

"In regards to trying to bayonet while cycling the action, you choose to let the game take actions for you, and that comes with drawbacks. In the situation you described, in the real world, you would have made the decision to try your bayonet after you missed your shot, and you wouldn't have even started trying to cycle the action. But you give up that control when you let the game take actions for you."

every other FPS out there allows you to interrupt the cycling animation at any given time.
hell even CoD1 could do it, and the game even remembered that the bolt was not cycled so you had to operate it after you switched back to it.

there is no reason why it shouldn't be the same here, and again, don't tell me it adds realism or emrasion, it only takes away from it while you ponder at how retarded your character is for not being able to do basic actions
 
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In game, you bleed out in approx 2 to 5 seconds. Usually you've already used up half the time before you even get to a spot to bandage without being instantly shot. You are almost guaranteed to die very quickly if you cancel it halfway through. It's a tactical decision whether you bandage or not in a particular circumstance, if the area isn't safe then tough luck, the guy that got you probably would've jabbed you in the rear end at some point anyways.
 
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In game, you bleed out in approx 2 to 5 seconds. Usually you've already used up half the time before you even get to a spot to bandage without being instantly shot. You are almost guaranteed to die very quickly if you cancel it halfway through. It's a tactical decision whether you bandage or not in a particular circumstance, if the area isn't safe then tough luck, the guy that got you probably would've jabbed you in the rear end at some point anyways.

just because it's a tactical descion doesn't mean my soldier should just stand like a bloody idiot staring at the enemy while he's pointing a gun at his head.

if i die from the bleeding let me die from the bleeding and not from a broken game feature.

not to mention that i can be left completly helpless even when im bandaging a none-lethal wound in the shoulder.

seriously how can you support a compeletly unrealistic game problem in an intetionally realistic game/??
 
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so denying basic game information like where there is spawn protection or forcing your dumb character to do nothing and stare like an idiot at the enemy while bandaging is realistic and immersive?
broken features are now adding depth to the game?
what the hell, if i didn't know any better i would say you are just a fanboy.

Where did I write realistic and immersive?
What you call broken is only broken because it does not work the way you want it too!
I am a fan but I am hardly a boy which only goes to prove you don't know me at all!
So stop trying to ridicule people because they disagree with you by using a term often used to denigrate the opinions of others because they happen to post positive feedback about a product they like.
For your information we are all fans in one form or another (even you) or we would not be taking the time and trouble to post on these game forums.
 
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