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RS Scandalous amount of Japanese SMGs

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#61
potehto said:
Increasing rifle caliber recoil is another thing which would help with balance (and something I think you would like). Higher recoil won't affect japanese bolt actions nearly as much as semi autos (by the time you're done bolting there's no more recoil also the 6.5 doesn't have that much recoil compared to the 30-06), the americans also have their BARs which could probably use more recoil as well. Increasing realism on the american side seems like it would do a good job with balancing. The map design and mortars all seem to do a good job of giving the japanese a better chance. I think with these changes and less m1919s/flamethrowers (realism) the type 100s could be brought down to a reasonable level. Also the thompson, while already at a low recoil state (I think it needs more) should have a peep sight in all the maps except maybe guadalcanal.
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Yes! I actually haven't play RS yet due to all the negative things I've heard, but if it's anything like HOS, then rifle recoil is probably too low. In HOS, basically the SVT-40 and G-41 handled like the M1 carbine should be handling now - like an intermediate cartridge instead of full power.

The SVT-40, G-41, and Garand should handle like their counterparts in RO1 - full power, heavy recoil. This would reduce the advantage over bolt-actions; you can put well-aimed shots down range about twice as fast as a bolt-action, but if you mag dump, you're looking at a significant accuracy loss due to recoil. If the RS Garand is anything like the HOS SVT-40, it's probably way too easy to mag dump accurately.

So basically to put things in perspective, let's say... the M1 Carbine and Mkb-42 should have per-shot recoil like the current PPSH in semi-auto. The BAR should have recoil like the current SVT-40 and G-41. The Garand, SVT-40, and G-41 should have at least twice the recoil that they currently do. The PPSH and Thompson should have just a bit more recoil than the MP40 currently does. The Type-100 should probably be pretty similar in recoil to the MP40. This would reflect their real life recoil values much more closely.

Tangent: Yes, the 6.5 cartridge indeed has light recoil compared to other bolt cartridges; in fact, it was used in the Federov Avtomat assault rifle which predated the Mkb/Stg by ~30 years.
 
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#62
300px-Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg

-Everyone suggesting super high recoil for exceptionally heavy rifles.
 
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#63
Get a clue dude. The Garand, SVT-40, and G41 are not exceptionally heavy rifles. When you total their recoil energy vs. their weight you get the following amounts of free-recoil energy:

SVT-40: 12 ft-lbs
M1 Garand: 15 ft lbs
G41: 18 ft-lbs

By comparison, the free recoil of an M1 Carbine or Stg-44 is around 3.5 ft-lbs.

The BAR is an exceptionally heavy rifle, which is why the free recoil is 7 ft-lbs, even though it shoots the same cartridge as the Garand; it's twice the weight.

This is why we need a better recoil structure in the game; the M1 Carbine and Mkb should have 2-4 times the recoil of the SMG's, and the semi-auto rifles should have 2-4 times the recoil of the M1 Carbine and Mkb.

Some sources:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm
http://forums.jackbootgames.com/sho...te-Recoil-Calculations-for-the-Game-s-weapons

Protip: facts make a more convincing argument than macros.
 
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#64
vamisk said:
300px-Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg

-Everyone suggesting super high recoil for exceptionally heavy rifles.
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Sorry dude, but the recoil on the M1 Garand is ridiculously low. People just spam the **** out of it like in that Saving Private Ryan monstrosity. Can you honestly tell you have held a Garand and, unsupported, shot all eight rounds in quick succession? Much less actually hitting anything?
 
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#65
^ Right, people who base their idea of the M1 Garand's handling on Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers have the same problem as those who claim the MG-42 is fireable standing from the shoulder because they saw re-enactors do it.

Blanks don't have the same recoil.

With a full power cartridge on a ~10lb rifle, you can pull the trigger as fast as you want, or even bump fire, but that doesn't mean it's going to stay on target. The U.S. military learned this when they developed the Garand into the M14, and then immediately removed the fire selectors on issue and dumped it for the M16 shortly thereafter. Intermediate cartridges revolutionized rifle design for a reason.
 
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#69
Even in the video where the devs show off the guns, you notice the recoil in real life when he shoots the garand but ingame they go slow mo so that it shows the recoil in game because if it wasn't it slow motion there would be basically no recoil, especially once the garand is lvl up. here is the video for those who haven't seen it.
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=91176
 
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#70
Now that I've been playing RS for a couple of weeks, I find myself agreeing that the Nambu Type 100 should be reserved for TL & SL's... not because I hate them, just that it 'feels' wrong for them to be so easily available all the time.

While I don't know how upsetting to the game balance it would be, I'd like to see the assault troops using a Arisaka Type 44 Carbine (short bolt action) with added option of a Fusil M-1908 "Mondrag
 
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#71
I agree the rifles in the game are lacking in proper recoil, probably in part why you can get kills and killed so easily...and yes the T-100 should be almost non-existant except to TL and (on a select map or two) to SLs...and if they make an Okinawa map, it could be avalible to assault class, because they were issued almost at squad level in that battle and the final months of the war (even though the quality, reliability and popularity of the weapons were shotty and lackluster)
 
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#75
GnaM said:
Get a clue dude. The Garand, SVT-40, and G41 are not exceptionally heavy rifles. When you total their recoil energy vs. their weight you get the following amounts of free-recoil energy:

SVT-40: 12 ft-lbs
M1 Garand: 15 ft lbs
G41: 18 ft-lbs

By comparison, the free recoil of an M1 Carbine or Stg-44 is around 3.5 ft-lbs.

The BAR is an exceptionally heavy rifle, which is why the free recoil is 7 ft-lbs, even though it shoots the same cartridge as the Garand; it's twice the weight.

This is why we need a better recoil structure in the game; the M1 Carbine and Mkb should have 2-4 times the recoil of the SMG's, and the semi-auto rifles should have 2-4 times the recoil of the M1 Carbine and Mkb.

Some sources:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm
http://forums.jackbootgames.com/sho...te-Recoil-Calculations-for-the-Game-s-weapons

Protip: facts make a more convincing argument than macros.
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Bar shoots full auto though, shooting a M-1 rapidly (Mag dump derp close range style) should have HUGE penalties

cant tell you how many times a US derp player can just spray with 3 or 4 rounds and get an easy kill at sub 30 yards
 
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#76
gimpy117 said:
Bar shoots full auto though, shooting a M-1 rapidly (Mag dump derp close range style) should have HUGE penalties

cant tell you how many times a US derp player can just spray with 3 or 4 rounds and get an easy kill at sub 30 yards
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Yes, I agree recoil should be higher on semi-auto rifles, because they are half the recoil of the BAR and other LMG's.

Try this mod:
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...ad.php?t=91184

This is how HOS and RS should have shipped, recoil-wise.
 
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#77
Nambu Type 100 : 24,000 – 27,000 produced.

Imperial Japanese Army : 6,095,000 troops.

6,095,000/27,000 = 225.74

There should only be around two type 100's on the battlefield. Taking into account people get reinforced, the only class that should get a type 100 is the Commander, as there's only one of him, and he gets reinforced.
 
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#80
gimpy117 said:
ever shot .380 auto????

not much recoil there really. My Bersa .380 auto is minuscule. the first 2 rounds i ever put though it went though the same hole.
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Huh, my uncle owns a Bersa .380. Nice gun, slim, cute bark... but even though the round isn't all that powerful, the thing is short enough that my impression from the fifty or so rounds I've run though it is that it'd be a pretty poor pick for delivering two rounds rapid--it doesn't move much, but the short distance between the rear sights and front post means a little movement goes a long way. Then again, I'm not the best shot you'll ever meet--you sound like you know what you're doing. :D

Great piece, though. I'd consider picking one up if it fit better in my hands.

And sorry for going off topic, heheh. Remember that on top of the light round, the Type 100 also has some heft to it, along with a stock. I'd imagine managing recoil would be a breeze.
 
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