On Splitting The Community

[Mike_Nomad]

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I am on a development team for a living. You can't look at it one way. This was a caustic fault in the original development path.

The times, they are a-changin'. Especially the computer/console gaming world's business plans, growth patterns, overall market and technology.

If developer groups, publishers and entrepreneurs fail to embrace current trends, patterns and indicators, they'll fall by the wayside. What is considered normal for at least the past few years will unfortunately, be old news in the very near future. If the key players don't keep up with the times, they'll soon be left behind hollering "Wha Happen???" (Just look at how MOH, BF and CoD have evolved not only in the games themselves but in the marketing, PR approaches and innovations we now see.) We are witnesses to the beginnings of massive change... the entire gaming platform, both online and single play, is rapidly evolving.
​

TWI has been and is on the right track - The unforgiving track of survival of the fittest. Go off track and you're history.

TWI has it right.

 

[Ducky]

I hope they whitelist and include the antilag mutator into the next patch. its another thing that splits the community really badly. Also the tank/no tank servers split the community terribly. I dont mind even the AI mgers.

Uhmm... You might want to read the change logs in the beta section of this forum ([url]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/forumdisplay.php?f=123[/URL])

 

[Holy.Death]

Just tell him that client-side detection hit has been released as server-side option in Beta already and it'll go live for vanilla when Beta is released (before the end of May, no exact term known as of yet). If I am not mistaken that's what anti-lag mutator was doing from the start (or close enough).

 

[Ducky]

Just tell him that client-side detection hit has been released as server-side option in Beta already and it'll go live for vanilla when Beta is released (before the end of May, no exact term known as of yet). If I am not mistaken that's what anti-lag mutator was doing from the start (or close enough).

I could have told him that. But I prefer to point him to the location where he can find what has been changed, or else his next question/remark might be about something that already has been changed in the beta too.

 

[Holy.Death]

Perhaps, or he won't understand the change and will ask why you have shown him that log as there are no mentions about anti-lag mutator... I prefer straightforward approach. It leaves no room for misunderstanding.

 

[Victhor-ASH]

They did the same thing to Mass effect 3 they wanted to make the game to please all the gamers of the American public, you can't do that because there are too many player tastes. In my opinion a game should have something atractive that anyone should play it.

Counter strike as an example is the oldest and most popular game that anyone plays it, not because of the graphics, but because of the amount of maps and how easily is to mod the gameplay and add more weapons and features. Maybe the mods are supposed to make you relax from when lets say you worked all day. I play Call of duty Modern warfare 2 to relax after a stresful day not because I like it. It is a very weak game.

In my opinion if Red Orchestra would need new mods, it should first make the game mode that made it popular and keep it that way. Of course if other people want to add other mods they should state theyr opinion on the forums. But first of all they need to put the most work on finishing the original mode.

 

[>< f4ct0r...13]

The times, they are a-changin'. Especially the computer/console gaming world's business plans, growth patterns, overall market and technology.

If developer groups, publishers and entrepreneurs fail to embrace current trends, patterns and indicators, they'll fall by the wayside. What is considered normal for at least the past few years will unfortunately, be old news in the very near future. If the key players don't keep up with the times, they'll soon be left behind hollering "Wha Happen???" (Just look at how MOH, BF and CoD have evolved not only in the games themselves but in the marketing, PR approaches and innovations we now see.) We are witnesses to the beginnings of massive change... the entire gaming platform, both online and single play, is rapidly evolving.
​

TWI has been and is on the right track - The unforgiving track of survival of the fittest. Go off track and you're history.

TWI has it right.

Abandoning the success paradigm of the parent title, whilst jumping into a big pool as a small fish was a terrible marketing decision, and it shows in how the community has been split.

 

[ButchCassidy]

Abandoning the success paradigm of the parent title, whilst jumping into a big pool as a small fish was a terrible marketing decision, and it shows in how the community has been split.

I fail to see how TWI have abandoned anything?

The game is still being patched and TWI are still actively improving it..
And you are still posting in a forum, on a topic about a game made by a small fish who made a terrible marketing decision that is still supporting its community with new content, fixes and improvements..Which is by far and away more than these dev teams did for their titles.

I paid

 

[Spacehogking]

I am not sure if that's possible.

Group A: There are people who play Realism and are quite content with the game design.

Group B: There are people who play Classic are like it much more than vanilla.

You can't claim that A and B can be merged together, because for some B is too slow and for some A is too fast. Making a single game mode with values set somewhere in the middle will make both groups unhappy and forcing one group to play the mode of another group is worse solution than making two separated modes for them. You can't accomodate fire and ice.

I fail to see why it's a bad idea. Except for the argument of splitting the resources between game modes, which is true to a degree. It can create larger potential playerbase, if the whole project will succeed. It's a risk, but who won't risk he won't gain anything. I think weeks after the release of Beta should bring an answer to a few questions.


You put wrong questions and present inaccurate conclusions. Going on crusade to "defend RO2 original" would be just as wrong as creating polls to remove Classic from the game. It'd serve no real purpose. In the end the effects of the poll are speaking for itself. That's the best defense. Furthermore Realism can be "RO2 original". There are people playing RO2, quite a number of them. They simply don't post so much. The game itself will soon give us answers we seek.

If this is your paradigm, why do we need multiple gamemodes now? Because TWI tried to accommodate fire and ice in the first place, and now the people expect this, and now a consolidated gamemode doesn't seem likely. This is the root of the problem, we all know it, and there is only one way of I know to fix it, though many would disagree.
Classic should be chosen as the base gameplay, though I do admit it needs tweaks to feel more polished rather than just the vanilla with a bunch of things subtracted. This consolidated Classic could become "Realism", and if a relaxed mode MUST exist, 'action' and 'relaxed' and 'realism' could be consolidated to create "Relaxed"

 

[Holy.Death]

If this is your paradigm, why do we need multiple gamemodes now? Because TWI tried to accommodate fire and ice in the first place, and now the people expect this, and now a consolidated gamemode doesn't seem likely. This is the root of the problem, we all know it, and there is only one way of I know to fix it, though many would disagree.

Incorrect. When the game was released hardcore and relaxed modes weren't too different from each other. Now each game mode plays differently (for fans of Realism Classic is too slow, for fans of Classic Realism is too fast, etc.), so fire and ice are now put in a different, separated, game modes. What you propose is accommodating fire and ice, because you want to merge Realism and Action together... It's the same thing you advocate against, so I don't really understand your reasoning.

What am I missing?

Classic should be chosen as the base gameplay, though I do admit it needs tweaks to feel more polished rather than just the vanilla with a bunch of things subtracted. This consolidated Classic could become "Realism", and if a relaxed mode MUST exist, 'action' and 'relaxed' and 'realism' could be consolidated to create "Relaxed"

Can you give (objective, if possible) reasons why it's Classic that should be chosen as the base gameplay and why people playing Action and Realism should be put together into a single Relaxed mode? In a different thread Action and Realism have more players than Classic, if I remember correctly...

 

[Victhor-ASH]

Splitting wouldn't solve anything. In my opinion Classic mode is the best mode that could be added in a game like Red orchestra but the problem is that it has many bugs. Many times it is very hard to find specific teammates with specific roles when playing 30 vs 30. Also it is very buggy many times icons don't appear something needs to be done.

Also the compass is the most usless implementation in classic.

 

[TrOOper]

The classic mode supporters were the ones that split the community in the first place. It didnt matter to them as long as they got what they wanted. Their normal retort was "you dont have to play it!"

Now they push this classic only because the realization has hit them that maybe classic isnt as popular as they thought and they cant fill many servers.

i find it laughable they worry about the community being split, so they propose that classic be the only mode.......I like classic ok, but i like realism better.....And yes, I am an RO1 vet of many years...I didnt like the movement then and I dont like movement in classic now...

i liked ROHOS when it first came out without the classic mode and I like it better now that the realism mode has been tweaked further.

Why dont you guys give it a break for a while and see how it plays out...

 

[defektive]

The classic mode supporters were the ones that split the community in the first place.

Classic mode was TWI's idea.

 

[TrOOper]

Classic mode was TWI's idea.

yes, it was after the whining and crying by the roosters...the vocal minority won out....I was here, i saw how it went down...Look, i dont care that classic is here, i just dont want classic the ONLY mode which is what they are trying to do...If the roosters had bent a little bit , we might have ended up with one mode...

 

[defektive]

yes, it was after the whining and crying by the roosters...the vocal minority won out....I was here, i saw how it went down...Look, i dont care that classic is here, i just dont want classic the ONLY mode which is what they are trying to do...If the roosters had bent a little bit , we might have ended up with one mode...

Actually I think you'll find that if TWI bent a little bit we'd have one mode. Look, TWI did state that a Classic mode was always on the cards so this so-called 'split' in the community was always going to happen, and yet here you are still trying to offload a metric f_ckton of blame onto the wrong people. Nice one.

Honestly, never have I seen such a systematic collective character assassination of a former player base than what has happened here over the last few months. Is there really any great wonder why so many Roosters still wouldn't touch RO2 with a sterile barge pole even if the game does go on to cure at least two forms of cancer.

 

[Holy.Death]

Actually I think you'll find that if TWI bent a little bit we'd have one mode.

That's probably the argument that can apply to any side and a perfect example of having one mode (or almost the same) is what happened at release of the game - with all sides being not satisfied.

 

[TrOOper]

Actually I think you'll find that if TWI bent a little bit we'd have one mode. Look, TWI did state that a Classic mode was always on the cards so this so-called 'split' in the community was always going to happen, and yet here you are still trying to offload a metric f_ckton of blame onto the wrong people. Nice one.

Honestly, never have I seen such a systematic collective character assassination of a former player base than what has happened here over the last few months. Is there really any great wonder why so many Roosters still wouldn't touch RO2 with a sterile barge pole even if the game does go on to cure at least two forms of cancer.

Just call it like I see it! You make it sound like this is all one sided..Thats hardly the case. Honestly, i dont give a rats behind if the roosters that left ever come back...Im a rooster and i stayed.....Its there loss, not mine.
Im playing the game and having a good time.

 

[tixhal]

imho the new gamemodes didn't split the community, if anything they made it grow (remember the time during the goty beta? there were considerably less than 1k peak players for quite while, server choice was pretty limited if you wanted to play against real people).
it is still one game, with lots of options. in theory it can offer some combination of server settings that would suit any fps-player. the community may be diverse, but at least now there are more servers that aren't populated by 2-5 players and a few dozen bots (which was the very common a while back).

 

[defektive]

Honestly, i dont give a rats behind if the roosters that left ever come back...Im a rooster and i stayed.....Its there loss, not mine.

As a player you can afford to not give a rat's ***, as a developer you can't. Blame the Roosters for your perceived 'split' in the community and for RO2 not doing as well as many may have liked if it makes you feel better, but that doesn't change the fact that TWI were going to split the game up like this from the get-go. I'm a Rooster, and I stayed too.

However, if you'd thought about this for longer than three seconds you'd come to realise that even as a player you can't afford to blanket blame a group of people for something that they didn't do (cf. force three game modes). When Rising Storm and In Country come out then you'll see what a split player base looks like, and this should concern you because I doubt that all three games are going to survive based on the average numbers we see playing now. Luckily, a fair number of the Roosters may yet return to give RS and IC a fair crack of the whip; I genuinely hope that turns out to be the case.

 

[Barber[FG]]

There has always been a divide in the community between those who can’t handle or don’t like the difficulty and dynamics of the classic mode, and those who can’t handle or don’t like the the fast pace run and gun of the other game modes.

If anything, the flexibility that RO2 now has does nothing but to build upon the overall player-base enjoying the game. My personal preference is for extreme, hard core, simulation of the battlefield. For some reason some people don’t enjoy that. I do, and I’m glad that I can somewhat get that in RO2 classic.

When Rising Storm and In Country come out then you'll see what a split player base looks like, and this should concern you because I doubt that all three games are going to survive based on the average numbers we see playing now. Luckily, a fair number of the Roosters may yet return to give RS and IC a fair crack of the whip; I genuinely hope that turns out to be the case.

Really good point. Look even now at RO1 and DH. My clan played DH because that mod allowed you to do a lot more. Like climb over walls, ride tanks as infantry and much, much more.