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Classic to replace all other modes

Classic to replace all other modes


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While I'm all about TWI trying to please their customers, at this point I really wish they would have just focused on the game they released back in September, fixed the issues and released content. This includes really getting the SDK in top notch condition.

I can understand wanting to please a fan base that wasn't satisfied with the game (ala' Classic Mode) but if the SDK was ironed out I don't doubt that the community who wanted a Classic Mode would have probably made it. Those are some dedicated dudes.

Right now it feels like TWI is trying to please everyone and ultimately alienating people. If you're going to do different game modes for different styles of play, just go Relaxed and Realism. Make relaxed as accessible as possible and make realism as hardcore as possible.

I like some of the aspects of Classic and I applaud TWI for wanting to please their fans, but I do feel sometimes you need to stay with your focus whether that pleases everyone or not. To me (not a Rooster) Classic feels, overall, a step backwards.

As for Classic being the only mode, I'll go with no.
 
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It's not that simple.

Yes, you can make one audience happy and make review score high because review will be written by people playing the game. People who will buy, play and review hardcore titles are few (when you compare them with other player bases), so they'll be mostly written by enthusiasts and keep the score up. Such high score is, in a way, fake. Because when reviews are written by the people who like the game then they tend to give it higher notes than the other people. The other people who won't play hardcore games.

And who here actually buys a game, let alone enjoys a game, based on what some random internet game reviewer scores it?

I don't and I couldn't care less if they rated RO2 a perfect 10 or a -5.... what matters to me is if I enjoy the game and continue to play it because I enjoy it.

If some random button pushing internet reviewer doesn't like the game, I couldn't give a rat's arse..... and if post online my view of a game and whether or not I like it, I never once expect anybody to blindly follow my opinion and determine to buy/play that game based on my own view.

Just because I like or dislike a specific game, that doesn't mean everybody shares my view.

While I'm all about TWI trying to please their customers, at this point I really wish they would have just focused on the game they released back in September, fixed the issues and released content. This includes really getting the SDK in top notch condition.

Exactly my position and my view..... I enjoyed the game that was released, despite the bugs and performance issues. Once all that was fixed up, I was more than ready to have new content added into the game, as the game was fine as it was.

If more content started to come out earlier, chances are the end result would have been more players staying on to play and more players who left, would start to come back, because the content that should have been in at the start would have started to make its way back in sooner.

Now while they work on RO Classic and this Action Mode, they may bring in that group of players who wanted those things, but those who've stuck around and enjoyed the game as it was, now risk leaving due to over playing the same limited content and no known dates of when new stuff will make its way into the game..... ie: boredom.

It's understandable that it's a tricky situation for TW to determine which way they should go in order to keep players and gain more, as whatever path they decide to take, they risk losing other players.

If they work on RO Classic and Action Modes the whole time, they risk losing their current player base that has stuck around, with the hope the other group of players comes back when these two modes go live.

However, if they didn't work on this Action Mode and RO Classic & kept working on new content and variety for the game, they wouldn't have lost anybody in their current player base.... and they couldn't lose the Action/RO Classic players, cuz they weren't playing in the first place, and with working on new content, they stood a greater chance of bringing in new players and the players who left because they were missing the things they wanted in the game.

Just my thoughts.....

....To me (not a Rooster) Classic feels, overall, a step backwards......

Agreed.

Classic should have been the only game mode to start. The community would either train the CoD'ers, or they would have self-deported.

This community is hugely splintered. It needs to rally around one version of the game, that is as faithful to OST as possible.

I've played the Mod, RO1 and of course, RO2.... I don't like CoD in the slightest (I didn't even care for the original CoD)..... yet I don't like RO1's game play compared to the Mod or RO2, yet I do enjoy Relaxed Realism and Realism as they are.

I wouldn't need some RO'Ost Fans to "Train" me as some "CoD'er" because #1 - I'm not a CoD'er and #2 - I already know how to play RO1.... I simply didn't like RO1's gameplay.

And it's that narrow view you have (as well as Cyper's) that screws up your logic & argument.

Basically you're saying that if you don't like RO Classic or RO1, then you're some CoD fan and don't know how to play RO.... sorry, it doesn't work that way.

The players should have rallied around one game mode and that should have been RO2's Realism Mode.... all this crap about being faithful to how RO:Ostfront was is indeed.... crap..... as RO:Ostfront wasn't the original Red Orchestra for all RO's to adhere to in the first place.
 
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Classic should have been the only game mode to start. The community would either train the CoD'ers, or they would have self-deported.

This community is hugely splintered. It needs to rally around one version of the game, that is as faithful to OST as possible.
Classic is too faithful, and that's my problem with it. It's essentially RO1 with better graphics, smoother movement, and less authenticity weapon-wise (G41/ZF4...). I didn't want RO1 with better graphics, I wanted RO1 with improvements. RO2's realism mode would easily deliver that if some tweaks were made there, rather than making a whole new gametype and going out of their way to make it like RO1.

I was excited about Classic the first time I played it because it felt like RO1. People were moving as squads and covering each other. With subsequent patches, though, it's rapidly losing its appeal for me. The latest version's sprinting is broken as all hell and suppression isn't much better off, for instance.
 
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Classic is too faithful, and that's my problem with it. It's essentially RO1 with better graphics, smoother movement, and less authenticity weapon-wise (G41/ZF4...). I didn't want RO1 with better graphics, I wanted RO1 with improvements. RO2's realism mode would easily deliver that if some tweaks were made there, rather than making a whole new gametype and going out of their way to make it like RO1.

I was excited about Classic the first time I played it because it felt like RO1. People were moving as squads and covering each other. With subsequent patches, though, it's rapidly losing its appeal for me. The latest version's sprinting is broken as all hell and suppression isn't much better off, for instance.

And *this* is where the devs went wrong.

What about RO classic, that stayed faithful to OST, with the following:

Bullet Penetration
More/Funnier Ragdoll
More Fidelity in Wounding
Real structure damage, including walls falling, and doing damage
Spreadable Fires
Flamethrowers
Real hero paradigms (not grinding), with buildable table of potentials
Meaningful honor system
global stats on all possibilities
Better maps, meaning no arbitrary (Barracks) maps
Real avatar voice options
ad infinitum

I admit, RO2 is better than RO1 in pure shooterness, but the CoD crap has GOT to go.
 
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I've played the Mod, RO1 and of course, RO2.... I don't like CoD in the slightest (I didn't even care for the original CoD)..... yet I don't like RO1's game play compared to the Mod or RO2, yet I do enjoy Relaxed Realism and Realism as they are.

I wouldn't need some RO'Ost Fans to "Train" me as some "CoD'er" because #1 - I'm not a CoD'er and #2 - I already know how to play RO1.... I simply didn't like RO1's gameplay.

And it's that narrow view you have (as well as Cyper's) that screws up your logic & argument.
Basically you're saying that if you don't like RO Classic or RO1, then you're some CoD fan and don't know how to play RO.... sorry, it doesn't work that way.

The players should have rallied around one game mode and that should have been RO2's Realism Mode.... all this crap about being faithful to how RO:Ostfront was is indeed.... crap..... as RO:Ostfront wasn't the original Red Orchestra for all RO's to adhere to in the first place.

My 10 yr old son plays CoD. I know what it looks like. If you don't think RO2 is a blatant rip-off of CoD, then you are perhaps...the least perceptive person in the gaming community.

You went very wrong trying to basically summarize my point. You are totally wrong. If you must have computer aids to play a game, either a: You don't belong there or B: You can be trained by people who understand how to play without computer aids.

RO2s realism mode isn't bad, but isn't close. Overall, RO2 play isw much better than OST.

In my response to ross, you will see an economic term described. It is called "Opportunity Cost". Opportunity cost is the challenge now, and how to mitigate it should be the plan. The people who don't need computer aids are here, there are more than me, and they need to keep saying what they've been saying: be faithful to the title, and then put in something *really* original.
 
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My 10 yr old son plays CoD. I know what it looks like. If you don't think RO2 is a blatant rip-off of CoD, then you are perhaps...the least perceptive person in the gaming community.

All it takes is watching RO2 and COD side-by-side to see how ridiculously wrong that statement is. Or comparing all the actual numbers in the game mechanics. Their similarity pretty much ends with "you shoot people with your gun."
 
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My 10 yr old son plays CoD. I know what it looks like. If you don't think RO2 is a blatant rip-off of CoD, then you are perhaps...the least perceptive person in the gaming community.

Call of Duty's first release was in October 29, 2003
[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_of_Duty[/URL]

The Original Red Orchestra Mod on UT2003 was first released Oct 9, 2003
[URL]http://www.moddb.com/mods/red-orchestra[/URL]

Do the math.... and tell me who possibly ripped off who..... unless the guys at Tripwire had a time machine or had a spy within Activision, they didn't rip off Call of Duty, because that's kind of impossible when you check the dates.

And you complain about my perception? :rolleyes:

You went very wrong trying to basically summarize my point. You are totally wrong.

Stomp your feet and pout your lips s'more..... doesn't change reality.

If you must have computer aids to play a game, either a: You don't belong there or B: You can be trained by people who understand how to play without computer aids.

I don't need computer aids... which is why I have no interest in playing the Action Mode.

At the same time, I don't need computer handicaps such as those in RO Classic to make the game feel "More Real" because my character is now a fat slob who can't run half a block before getting winded and can't handle a mere bolt rifle for a period of time without swaying around and acting drunk because the rifle's "Tooooo Heavy"

That's not real for me..... the current Realism Mode in RO2 is.

And as I said, I already know how to play Ostfront and I already know how to play RO Classic.... I've played Ostfront for a few years now and was pretty good actually, as I was usually in the top five of my team at all times (unless I was just screwing around).... I just don't like it and I didn't buy RO2 wanting a re-skinned RO1, thank you very much.

Back in the mod days, I was usually in the top two, even when I wasn't trying.

*toot toot* ~ Haven't used my horn in a while :cool:
 
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I didn't buy RO2 wanting a re-skinned RO1, thank you very much.
To be fair, very few people did.

The conversations that took place over the pre-ROC months almost entirely supported the notion that RO2 clearly had the potential to be a worthy RO successor but it fell short largely as a result of a number of pretty bizarre design choices (w/ permanent ability perks/unlocks being at the heart of most of the complaining), and that in order to realise that latent potential all that was required was for a few tweaks to be made to the ‘Realism’ mode. Very few people asked for an entirely separate re-skinned RO1 game mode yet somehow TWI interpreted that to mean that most people wanted a re-skinned RO1 then subsequently cranked out the ROC beta. I don’t know what TWI’s long term vision for ROC is but already we’ve seen some of the much-called-for tweaks implemented in ROC bleeding over into the Realism mode, which is all that the Roosters were asking for in the first place.

RO2 should have shipped with only two distinct modes, as was clearly the original intention: ‘Relaxed’ to entertain the current Relaxed and (potential) Action players, and ‘Normal’ to keep the current Realism and Roosters busy. Now that’s easy to say with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight but a lot harder to do in practice today because TWI have now somewhat painted themselves into a corner with this ‘multitude of modes’ approach: they can’t easily consolidate Action with Relaxed, and Realism with ROC, without certain players understandably feeling that some of their game is being taken away from them. I don’t know what the solution is now but I do know that it’s going to take some ballsy leadership to get it done. (I would probably endeavour to merge Action with Relaxed, Realism with ROC, take the flak from a vocal few for a month or so -- they’ll soon get over it -- then at long last settle down getting back to the business of devoting maximum effort into building much needed extra content for the game. You can bet your left Wellington boot that V:IC and RS will not be shipping with a similarly philosophically confused set of game modes; those devs will be taking careful note and learning from all of this and will ensure that they don't make the same mistakes.)

TL;DR: Having four game modes when only two are necessary (as per original intent) is an unsustainable position for RO2. Look at this through the eyes of a new player to see how needlessly complicated this is all threatening to become. All current ideas need to be merged into only two genuinely distinct game modes: ‘Relaxed’ and ‘Normal’.
 
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To be fair, very few people did.

Sez you..... The actual greater majority who had issues with RO2 didn't have issues over it being not like RO1 or because TW added some new features, the greater majority of people had issues due to performance problems when they had pretty decent computers, bugs, glitches, crashing to desktop..... and once all those things were ironed out, those who stuck around to try it again actually enjoyed the game and were ready for new content.

But what happened was RO Classic and now Action Mode...... and those who have been waiting for new content, such as myself and a number of other members in here, have grown bored of the same old limited content and just simply stopped playing due to repetition.

The conversations that took place over the pre-ROC months almost entirely supported the notion that RO2 clearly had the potential to be a worthy RO successor but it fell short largely as a result of a number of pretty bizarre design choices (w/ permanent ability perks/unlocks being at the heart of most of the complaining),

I'll admit that was some people's issue, but nothing that came out of RO2 should have been a surprise by Beta or even the Sept Launch, as TWI informed everybody on what to expect in the game, not just with posts in these forums, but many screenshots, multiple gameplay videos, and interviews..... and hearing all of what they were planning for the game before I even touched the Beta, I was really looking forward to it, as it sounded, looked and was indeed, above and beyond RO1.

RO2 not being a carbon copy of RO1 (but with better graphics) was the issue of some of the more vocal members in here, while others had issues with content missing at launch..... and others had issues with performance and bugs..... and the rest actually liked the game and kept quiet, mostly because they were too busy playing.

and that in order to realise that latent potential all that was required was for a few tweaks to be made to the ‘Realism’ mode. Very few people asked for an entirely separate re-skinned RO1 game mode yet somehow TWI interpreted that to mean that most people wanted a re-skinned RO1 then subsequently cranked out the ROC beta. I don’t know what TWI’s long term vision for ROC is but already we’ve seen some of the much-called-for tweaks implemented in ROC bleeding over into the Realism mode, which is all that the Roosters were asking for in the first place.

So not only have they made RO Classic..... Not only are they replacing Relaxed Realism with Action Mode..... but now they're changing Realism from what it was.

Is there anything going to be left that I actually liked?

RO2 should have shipped with only two distinct modes, as was clearly the original intention: ‘Relaxed’ to entertain the current Relaxed and (potential) Action players, and ‘Normal’ to keep the current Realism and Roosters busy. Now that’s easy to say with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight but a lot harder to do in practice today because TWI have now somewhat painted themselves into a corner with this ‘multitude of modes’ approach: they can’t easily consolidate Action with Relaxed, and Realism with ROC, without certain players understandably feeling that some of their game is being taken away from them.

Such as myself.

I don’t know what the solution is now but I do know that it’s going to take some ballsy leadership to get it done. (I would probably endeavour to merge Action with Relaxed, Realism with ROC, take the flak from a vocal few for a month or so -- they’ll soon get over it --

I sure as fk won't get over it, because I enjoyed Relaxed Realism and Realism AS THEY WERE.

I have Zero interest in RO Classic and Most Certainly DO NOT want it to take over Realism.... It's bad enough that Action Mode is going to take over Relaxed Realism and cut my options.

If this so-called Vocal Few get over it, it'll be by leaving the game.

This so-called Vocal Few were the only ones actually playing the game and supporting TWI & RO2 this whole damn time while the real Vocal Few constantly spammed these and the Steam Forums until they got what they wanted.... and now those who actually liked the game as it was and who've kept the damn game alive this long are going to be abandoned?

Yeah.... That'd certainly be a Ballsy move, since Action Mode and RO Classic are both made in the "HOPE" that it will bring in more players...... there is no assurance that they will.

It may bring in a hand full of players back into the game, but if the group who's stuck by the game so far get screwed over in the process and their game modes they enjoyed are taken away from them, any gain in players will be countered by the departure of anybody who's still left playing the game.

and the hours I played in RO2 will cease to progress, just as it did with RO1.

then at long last settle down getting back to the business of devoting maximum effort into building much needed extra content for the game.

Which should have been done right after the bug fixes, and most certainly would have not only kept the current player base, but increase it, either equally or better than these additional game modes.

The only reason why I am not playing now is because of the lack of content and being bored from waiting. When new content comes in, I'll certainly play again...... but if I come back and find the game modes I enjoyed are gone or butchered to please those who took off months ago and just trashed the crap out of TW & RO2 the whole time..... then I don't see any reason to keep coming back to a game I no longer enjoy.

You can bet your left Wellington boot that V:IC and RS will not be shipping with a similarly philosophically confused set of game modes; those devs will be taking careful note and learning from all of this and will ensure that they don't make the same mistakes.)

Don't know who those initials stand for, and I don't honestly care what they do.

TL;DR: Having four game modes when only two are necessary (as per original intent) is an unsustainable position for RO2. Look at this through the eyes of a new player to see how needlessly complicated this is all threatening to become. All current ideas need to be merged into only two genuinely distinct game modes: ‘Relaxed’ and ‘Normal’.

Indeed.... there should have been two game modes.... the original Relaxed Realism and Realism, and those who didn't like them should have sucked it up, or go somewhere else as they threatened to do this whole time.

Now they get what they want, and the rest of us get one big dildo jammed up our butts for our support this whole time.

Brilliant idea.
 
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I don't like the idea of 'Action' mode either, but last I saw they said they were only just tossing around the idea of some changes. Did they actually say they were going ahead with that as a replacement for Relaxed Realism?

With all that's going on now, I have no friggin idea what they're planning or not planning to do..... all I do know is that based on this useless poll above, obviously a majority of people don't like the idea of RO Classic taking over the entire game.

Funny thing is, several of the polls in the past made by the same people who wanted RO Classic, kept using their polls as evidence for having it in the game, as they got a lot of numbers to support their demands...... now looking at this poll, obviously the shoe is on the other foot and those who've kept quiet this whole time have finally started to voice themselves against RO Classic, or at the very least, against RO Classic taking over and forcing everybody to play that back-tracking, wrong-direction game mode.

If others want to play it.... all the power to you and I hope you all have fun..... but if it comes to the point where RO Classic takes over Realism or worse, takes over the entire game as it was..... then I'd rather RO Classic get tossed in the trash and those who've created this entire mess to just go and play some other game.

I've already accepted the fact that my server options, although limited right now, will be reduced further..... but if it's going to get to the point that all the game modes I actually enjoyed are going to be butchered or just completely replaced, then y'all can kiss me arse.

I've accepted the needs of the minority in here who wanted RO Classic and I actually gotten to the point of supporting them..... now it seems they were given and inch and decided to take 10 damn miles and screwed everybody else who actually let them have their foot in the door in regards to having this game mode at their expense.

People wanted a rift between the community?

They're sure as hell going to get it with this kind of selfish, self-entitled attitude of theirs.

Sure.... those who bought RO2 might have expected one thing due to their ignorance and not checking out the available information before purchasing, and got another, thus got all angry and upset..... but what's worse is that you have people who bought the game knowing what it was, enjoyed it for months and supported it.... and it seems are now facing the possibility of having it all taken away from them in one big "FU" because of some vocal princesses who spammed, cried and trolled for months until they got what they wanted.... and now want more...... and TW is catering to their cries and foot stomping while abandoning those who kept this game alive.

So Mr Moe.... I honestly don't know wtf is going on with this game anymore and until I do know what the hell is going on with RO2 and its future, I won't be re-installing the game.

It seemed to work for these more vocal RO Classic people.....

And my modeling is being put on hold as well. I see no reason in spending my time and my effort in making things for a game that isn't going to be the game I remember or I enjoy anymore..... there is no reason in supporting a game or a game dev by working on content for RO2 if they're just going to take away everything I actually enjoyed in the game.

And unlike these RO Classic people who've continually threatened to get refunds or threatened to leave the game, I'm not threatening.... it's just reality and logic.

If there isn't even the Realism game mode left as it is for me to play and Relaxed Realism is being switched to Action Mode and RO Classic is going to take over Realism.... or even if Realism is going to be heavily modified to be closer to RO Classic, then there is no logic in me continuing work for a game I will no longer enjoy and there is no logic in me re-downloading it.

Not threats.... no demands.... just mere reaction to action.

Trying to start to model some weapons and new content for RO2 was my last ditch effort in trying to keep involved in the game and try to get things in the game I have been waiting for for months now..... RO Classic taking this long and the lack of content getting into the game so far was the third last straw.... the possibility of Action Mode taking over Relaxed Realism was the second last straw..... Having Realism getting screwed around with, or even worse, being possibly replaced by RO Classic will most certainly be the final straw.
 
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Praxius all you can infer from the poll is that the majority don't want to restrict everyone to Classic only by force. Thats just not fair for a game that is this old now, it just can't be done like that as it would destabilise the playerbase

If you look at people who voted not to restrict it to classic only you can see some of the people who are stronger advocates of classic too, even me if I bothered to vote. That doesn't mean I won't be playing classic, but I don't think you should ram it down everyone's throat this long into release. It will be an organic change if the majority want that OR a mix of servers, which is the most likely outcome

I think you're not looking at what the poll is really asking, and possibly getting apprehensive about the future of RO2. You will still have realism mode. You may have liked relaxed realism too but lets face it, how many servers were there with that anyway?

If classic were to take over, well making realism playable for classic fans is a good compromise, that way you get at least some realism server still. In what way do you think realism mode has been made worse anyway?
 
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I agree with melipone in that all the poll says is that players don't want Classic to replace all the other modes. That is how I voted, that it should NOT replace the other modes yet I will be playing Classic mode almost exclusively unless I see a super map running in one of the other modes.

Quite honestly, this particular poll is ridiculous considering the other modes already existed since the release of the game. No explanation needed why, if someone can't figure it out then you are just blinded by your own selfishness.
 
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The only thing I get from the poll is that the majority of those who did vote don't want ROC to be the only game mode available.

Everything else I went on about was based on what I know of Action & ROC in regards to how they play & that I don't like either. It was also based on what I've heard, as well as what others heard / claim and what they think should happen.

I'm pretty sure that it isn't likely Realism will be replaced or be heavily modified into something that is closer to ROC, because that would be foolish & would burn the bridges of many who've supported TW/RO2 this whole time.

But at the same time, with TW shifting gears so often, spending so long on ROC, now working on this Action mode with the possibility of replacing Relaxed, and so many speculations & interpretations from many members on what will/should happen, I honestly don't know where TW will draw the line, let alone their position.

All I'm saying is that "If" some of these thing do happen, I will do what I've said.

Over the last few months, I've had PM's from various members who feel the same way. Most no longer get involved in these debates because they have no interest getting dragged into arguments (which I obviously have no issue with)

It's not my position to name names either. If they really wish to speak up, I'm sure they will.

But TWI needs to clarify some of the positions & rumors going on around here towards these game modes & let people know exactly wtf is going to happen with Action, Relaxed, Realism & ROC, because until I know what the heck is really going on, I see no reason to keep working on content for something I won't play.

And at least 1/3 (possibly 1/2) of the servers in my area ran Relaxed. Can't say I kept records, but I didn't have issues finding either game mode.
 
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Sez you.....
Sez history. A few would indeed have been happy with a re-skinned RO1 but fact is that the vast majority did not want that, and posted repeatedly to try and drill that point home - not that it sank in to ears that didn't (and still don't) want to listen. Small wonder that most of them no longer post or even play the game any more.
 
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