Classic to replace all other modes

[melipone]

Well the counter-argument to any suggestions of changing RO2 were that "you just want RO1 with better graphics", no matter what people actually said. To me RO1 did some things better, in terms of tactical options for players, damage of weapons, difficulty of shots, immersion in WW2 environment, "gritty" realism etc. But I always wanted RO2 with more RO style gameplay, not just RO1 with better graphics. I would take RO1 with better graphics any day of the week though compared to RO2 in the first months after release.

The position TWI were in though was one were it was easier to use RO1 as a base to start from, and build from there. People wanted RO2 to be more realistic, but realism is quite subjective. Its easier to get people to agree on what RO1 felt like as a game rather than how it should be changed in terms of realism

I had no problem with unlocks, player progression, different gameplay, relaxed realism etc. But the implementation and the resistance from TWI to listen shortly after release made people just decide they wanted none of it. We had more Mkb42's than Bolt action rifles early on..this is after people like Wilsonam promised and said "trust us" like 5 times in 1 post about the rarity of these weapons 3 months before release.

There are people who just want RO1 with a better engine and better graphics/more content though and theres nothing wrong with that either. I mean we came to RO for RO gameplay, not all this cod/bf stuff

 

[luciferintears]

i prefer classic but i guess there are people out there who like the other modes so why ruin their fun?

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

Sez history.

If that is indeed true, you could easily back up such a claim with sources.

I've already proven one person wrong on their claims that RO ripped off CoD..... I can easily prove you wrong as well...... might as well do it now to save us all some time:

[URL]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=67681[/URL]
^ Good amount of people liked the game at launch dispite glitches.

[URL]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=66273[/URL]
^ Majority in the poll were pleased with the game. Those who weren't vary in their reasons, which span from unlocks, performance issues, it not being RO1 Reskinned, Not having the things that were said to be in at launch, etc. etc.

[URL]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=67656[/URL]
^ Many saying the game is quite immersive and they love the gameplay, not including those complaining about performance issues and bugs.

[URL]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=67564[/URL]
^ More love towards the realism in RO2, ie: immerssion.

from that thread - Raptor341:
"I just wanted to say im sorry to TWI to getting on the RO2 sucks bandwagon a little too early. Now, to my understanding there are still outstanding issues such as unhistorical weapons numbers ( that we all know well about here ) and anyone who knows me the number 1 thing in a wargame is REALISM, pure historical unbalanced realism. However, i was wrong to judge so quickly. The first time i hit the battlefield i came under intense suppression fire, so much i could barely see, and for a moment, i was there. After relocating to a burned out house, i leveled my MN at a fascist and watched as my round went clean through his neck, as he collapsed along a short wall. The first person cover system, the look, the feel, the sound. I am in short impressed. You have outdone yourselves. Though im sure there will be issues along the way, i was wrong to point a finger so quickly. Lets make this the best historical wargame it can be, through TWI and modding, but also ourselves, we want better teammates and tactics, demand it from ourselves first. Stalingrad will be freed the fascist invader! To victory!"

And a few more threads at launch of the game:

[URL]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=67551[/URL]

[URL]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=67963[/URL]

[URL]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=68383[/URL]

Most of the complaints so far are over the prone/action/puckup combo key..... or even Lockdown.... but few complainers are complaining about RO2 not being a carbon copy of RO1. They exist, but they are in fact, the small minority who eventually just became the most vocal.

I could keep going with samples, as the above are just snippets from September alone..... but I think my point has been made.

Heck look yourself and check out the first two months of posts just focusing on complaints and you'll see that there's barely anyone complaining about RO2 not being like RO1.... thus your so-called Fact isn't much of a fact at all and have been proven wrong.

Hopefully Tripwire looks at these above examples, as well as other threads from the first few months of release to see just how many people actually liked the game just as it was (with exclusions of glitches and bugs of course) and doesn't forget about them.

A few would indeed have been happy with a re-skinned RO1 but fact is that the vast majority did not want that, and posted repeatedly to try and drill that point home

If it's a fact, you can prove it. I don't take people's claims of "Fact" at face value just because they say it's a fact.

Just because you have the same 5 forums members spamming the forums for months on end, doesn't make them the majority of the community. They may be the majority of posts in the community, but not the majority of members.

There's a difference.

- not that it sank in to ears that didn't (and still don't) want to listen. Small wonder that most of them no longer post or even play the game any more.

Good.

I listened, I debated with them, I've attempted a number of times to hash out a middle ground and make suggestions so they get what they want...... and whether it was due to this or others or something else, TW actually gave them what they wanted and it's still not good enough..... and now they want to suggest their game mode takes over everybody else's game modes, so you know what?

They can kiss me arse, they get no more support from me and if they leave, GOOD.

I no longer care what those selfish, self-entitled, ingrateful moaners want or don't want.

 

[melipone]

Time to draw a line under it all and move on Praxius. I had a big *** post ready but its just not worth it to me anymore. Just wait and see how it turns out. All the cards are played, theres no point going on about stuff like this anymore.

Lets just get behind the free weekend and see how it goes. I think you will be relieved and will have been worrying over nothing

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

Time to draw a line under it all and move on Praxius. I had a big *** post ready but its just not worth it to me anymore. Just wait and see how it turns out. All the cards are played, theres no point going on about stuff like this anymore.

Oh I'm just killing time on work breaks

But I'd still like to get some better clarification on what is exactly planned for these various game modes, whether they're all going to be in the game, or if certain game modes are going to be replaced by others, or if existing game modes are going to be modified to be closer to the other game modes, etc.

Lets just get behind the free weekend and see how it goes. I think you will be relieved and will have been worrying over nothing

One can hope

 

[Golf33]

Sez history. A few would indeed have been happy with a re-skinned RO1 but fact is that the vast majority did not want that, and posted repeatedly to try and drill that point home - not that it sank in to ears that didn't (and still don't) want to listen. Small wonder that most of them no longer post or even play the game any more.

This - although I'd like to point out that I've kept playing the game, even though Classic is far more fun, and in fact I've kept playing longer than CPT-Praxius (at least judging by his own posts). I've posted suggestions for tweaks, and tested the betas despite my appalling ping to the US and EU, and I'm helping test Rising Storm, and I have NEVER asked for RO2 to be just like RO1.

It gives me the ****s when someone whinges about the dreadful roosters and what we've done to the game - because it wasn't us, it was a handful (like about 6) of RO1 zealous plus a similar number of RO2 zealots who created the impression that TWI ended up going with.

If people had bothered to read our posts - or had the integrity to refrain from misrepresenting them - then I doubt any of this angst would have been needed.

 

[defektive]

They can kiss me arse, they get no more support from me and if they leave, GOOD. I no longer care what those selfish, self-entitled, ingrateful moaners want or don't want.

You need to calm down. You'll live longer.

 

[Golf33]

I love the way that post starts off with an argument then forgets the point half-way through and ends up arguing with itself. Good to see that it's not just a failure to read other people's posts that'shappening here, but also a failure to read his own.

 

[defektive]

If people had bothered to read our posts - or had the integrity to refrain from misrepresenting them - then I doubt any of this angst would have been needed.

It only takes small groups of shouty people on both sides of the ravine to create a schism and sadly the often more numerous moderate voices get drowned out by the said shouty few.

I don't understand what the long term philosophy is behind ROC but it has given the disenfranchised (the Roosters, largely) some small cause for renewed enthusiasm and despite Praxius

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

This - although I'd like to point out that I've kept playing the game, even though Classic is far more fun, and in fact I've kept playing longer than CPT-Praxius (at least judging by his own posts).

Based on what?

I've been a forum member since the old Mod Forums (prior to switching to the Tripwire Forums) approx. around Red Orchestra Combined Arms 2.0 when I first heard about the Make Something Unreal Contest for UT2004.

And what does it matter how long who has played what?

I've already explained that I stopped playing in the month of December for the most part, not because I hate the game, but because I've played too much and became bored with the limited content.

You may enjoy ROC and it keeps you playing because it's something different.... my position is that I don't like ROC and have no interest in playing it anymore than I already have.

I've posted suggestions for tweaks, and tested the betas despite my appalling ping to the US and EU, and I'm helping test Rising Storm, and I have NEVER asked for RO2 to be just like RO1.

It gives me the ****s when someone whinges about the dreadful roosters and what we've done to the game - because it wasn't us, it was a handful (like about 6) of RO1 zealous plus a similar number of RO2 zealots who created the impression that TWI ended up going with.

Which is what I have been saying.... a small minority of the community, and I already clarified previously that I am not painting any one whole group with the same brush. There are different people with different likes for different reasons for each game mode...... my comments are directed to those my comments apply to and they know who they are.

If you don't think my comments apply to you, then they don't.

If people had bothered to read our posts - or had the integrity to refrain from misrepresenting them - then I doubt any of this angst would have been needed.

And it wasn't needed for 2-3 threads to be created through the forums to suggest or to tell people ROC should take over all other game modes and for everybody to be forced to play ROC simply because those OP's like ROC.

You need to calm down. You'll live longer.

Funny, you seem to think I'm stopping my whole life over all of this or getting my blood pressure up over a video game..... I'm just saying what's on my mind, to the point, no punches pulled.

I need to calm down?

You need to read better..... I've already said:

"You asked for our opinion..... you got it."

"No threats.... no demands.... just mere reaction to action."

"Oh I'm just killing time on work breaks "

To make it more simple, you can think of it as computer code.... If Action A is Executed > Then Take Action B.

No more, no less.

 

[defektive]

I need to calm down?
You need to read better.....
No more, no less.

Your increasingly crazed rants suggest otherwise. I'll tell you what I see and why I find it difficult to fully appreciate the things that you say these days: I see someone who hasn't played the game since December posting more walls of noise than just about anyone else here. Perhaps it would be wise to back off for a few more months, let things settle, then return to see if things are more to your satisfaction.

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

I love the way that post starts off with an argument then forgets the point half-way through and ends up arguing with itself. Good to see that it's not just a failure to read other people's posts that'shappening here, but also a failure to read his own.

Oh really?

I've read in detail each post in this thread I have quoted and responded to each part of each quote in detail.

When claims have been made, I have refuted them, as well as provided plenty of sources to back up my refutes and counter-claims..... even backing up my own claims..... yet it's pretty funny those who claim I don't read other's posts, obviously don't bother to read mine.

Otherwise I wouldn't have to keep repeating myself.

But hey.... if you want to avoid everything I have been saying, avoid trying to prove me wrong & just want to resort to trivial little personal quips (ie: target the poster and not the post), then be my guest..... saves me time proving you wrong when you do a good enough job all on your own.

Your increasingly crazed rants suggest otherwise. I'll tell you what I see and why I find it difficult to fully appreciate the things that you say these days: I see someone who hasn't played the game since December posting more walls of noise than just about anyone else here.

Well that seems to be going around here a lot these days.... and until something actually comes into the game that interests me (the actual game, not the beta) then there's no reason or logic for me to keep playing the same, un-patched game that's the exact same as when I last played.

But keep on thinking that some how disqualifies my own opinion and position if it makes you feel any better. Ignorance is bliss it seems.

And for the record, yet again... I have tried the beta and I have tried RO Classic.... I didn't like it, and since the Beta is basically just running RO Classic the whole time, with the odd day of Action Mode, again, there's no reason to keep playing.

When the Beta goes live, I'll probably try the new map and I'll check out the various performance patches in "Realism Mode" or "Relaxed Realism" if it still exists.... other than that, I have no interest in playing until then.

But hey, if you want to split hairs, me not playing for the last 3-4 months or so isn't as bad as half the people who continually spammed the forums for the last 7 months until they got what they wanted.

Perhaps it would be wise to back off for a few more months, let things settle, then return to see if things are more to your satisfaction.

I have, which is why I uninstalled the game for the time being to save on HD Space and Bandwidth from patches..... but I continue to check in here to see if something comes along that brings me back.

I won't know that if I just leave completely and not check in.... and apparently that was perfectly fine to do for those who just spent the last half a year trashing TW and RO2 the whole time

But anyways, I will agree with many others in here and come to the conclusion that this thread pretty well ran it's course. The above poll is pretty obvious in its results and I've killed enough time in this thread to lose any interest in it..... time to make some more long winded posts elsewhere, since I know you guys love them so much

The point has been made.... and if some here didn't get it by now, they probably never will.

 

[Sensemann]

Hey Praxius,

We are having a very different opinion in most views upon RO 2 for the majority of time. However I always supported that you should bring up your points. But for the last couple of weeks, you act like a butthurt person that tries to get attention by posting on every single thread that you will only return once you see "progress" in the game and it's content. We all know by now that u have deleted RO 2 to save bandwidth because of the regular updates. Here is the trick: tell steam to stop auto-updating and please minimize repeating to post what you have already written 100s of times: u don't like updates and u r waiting for new content.
We got it. Please consider to post productive posts again as u did before, even we have different opinions. For the moment u act pretty childish. Sorry...

 

[Cwivey]

You could say he's the other end of the spectrum, he's asking for content rather than complete changes to the game and dropping features. But at least he's more civil about the whole thing, even if it is a chore to read some of his posts sometimes...


The beta has a Classic Server and a Realism server up currently.


Let us not dwell on this anymore, no mode shall be removed entirley!

Relaxed Realism settings will still be in, but as a set of choices and check-boxes for Server operators running the Realism mode, rather than it's own mode.

 

[Holy.Death]

While the climate in the topic seems lighten up a bit I have to remind that question of the topic is if the Classic should replace all the other mods. It's either yes or no and why. There is no reason to make it personal so please, stop arguing about one another's style of posting and focus on the subject at hand.

 

[Cyper]

If I were Tripwire I would come up with a final solution to settle this once and for all. That solution would be to remove all modes and replace them with RO CLASSIC. I would then rename ro classic to MULTIPLAYER. You don't have to browse servers and go through a horde of different modes. You don't to use the filter in the same way; empty, a few people, bots, bots, a few people, full server. With one mode it will be possible for Tripwire to focus on one thing at time instead focusing on a horde of different modes and release it half made.

One goal, one mode, one game, one community.

The super niche audience who want this mix between Red Orchestra formula and COD gets filtered out and the game can finally focus on its core audience exactly like arma. This is not selfish and I tell you why! Because the roosters were the minority. The mainstream is not! Mainstream is mainstream, its huge, and thats why its not fair to cater to it!

Its not even about becoming RO CLASSIC. Its about going back to the roots of Red Orchestra. One audience like it was in the beginning with Roost. Just imagine if ALL the time TWI have spent on all these different modes were put to use in ONE, single mode. IMAGINE if all the time we have spent here discussing were to improve: multiplayer. No Classic, not realism, not action, not relaxed realism - not this or that - but Red Orchestra multiplayer! The outcome would be a more polished and balanced game, instead of this unstructured mix of everything that have driven away loads of players (roughly 7000 from the 10,000 it was in the beginning). ROladder was lost aswell.

It is stupid to wander around this soup of different modes and it ain't gonna save the community it will only make things worse than it really is. I remember that people stated that RO was in an identity crisis. This was neglected and refused in the beginning by most people. Well, if THIS - all modes - and the obvious codificatios of RO2 (recon planes, faster pace, unlocks, perks and even the front picture) that makes your brain go for a trip, isn't an identity crisis, then I dont know what.

 

[melipone]

For a different game maybe, but not for something this long into release. Its just not possible. Imagine if you bought a game that you liked and played regularly, and then 8 months on they take away your game and replace it with something you don't really like so much. You'd be pissed. It just can't be done for a game this old

A couple game modes won't be so bad. It allows TWI to test the water with various changes and additions without annoying their whole playerbase. They may have an idea that will be more suited to one mode more than another, roll it out there and then find that its actually something that may be welcome in the other modes too

Plus they can reach more players with different tastes in gameplay. Where it can get a bit murky though is going too far from the RO format. You could argue that current realism is too far, but we can't change that since we are already in this position. Just need to be wary for future games and probably try them out before buying, and don't take what you read seriously until you actually have the tried yourself or people you trust have given their opinions

 

[Cwivey]

One goal - Provide solid semi-realistic WW2 multiplayer gameplay. <----The root of the RO franchise, Ro:OST is not the root, that's the mid-point between games.

Three modes - Give everyone the chance to play something other than X (Insert Generic WW2 game here) And don't say it's not different, it is in so many ways. Not a single mode pushing out the actual players of the game.

One game - Red Orchestra 2: Heroes of Stalingrad

One Community - The forums wont be sub-divided into Classic / Realism / Action, people can input on what ever they want where ever on the forums, any thread, any topic. As long as people act mature and don't hate on another person for playing the mode of their choice, the community will be one.


How are you not getting it?

What gives YOU the right to think you can throw the current players of the game on their asses? It's entirley selfish.

 

[Golf33]

Based on what?

Based on this:

I've already explained that I stopped playing in the month of December for the most part, not because I hate the game, but because I've played too much and became bored with the limited content.

I'm still playing RO2 vanilla on the Aussie servers. You say you stopped doing so over 5 months ago. There have been updates (including to the vanilla game) in the time that you haven't been playing.

I like to think of it as helping to keep the game alive so I don't lose touch with the good blokes on the Aussie servers, until Classic comes out and some of my other mates (who stopped playing because of the design inconsistencies in RO2 Vanila) may hopefully return.

It's a real shame you didn't keep going with Karlovka 2 - the progress you had made was looking really nice. It seems like TWI are working on SDK and custom map cooking problems during this beta (as well as working on tank AI and anti-lag). Do you think you might take Karlovka 2 back up once those issues are resolved?

And it wasn't needed for 2-3 threads to be created through the forums to suggest or to tell people ROC should take over all other game modes and for everybody to be forced to play ROC simply because those OP's like ROC.

Agreed. I don't support that either. Failing a max of 2 game modes that at least make everyone mostly happy and only tolerably unhappy (something I believe could have been achieved at release but wasn't) then having 3 game modes may be the only way forward.

 

[Golf33]

One goal - Provide solid semi-realistic WW2 multiplayer gameplay. <----The root of the RO franchise, Ro:OST is not the root, that's the mid-point between games.

Three modes - Give everyone the chance to play something other than X (Insert Generic WW2 game here) And don't say it's not different, it is in so many ways. Not a single mode pushing out the actual players of the game.

One game - Red Orchestra 2: Heroes of Stalingrad

One Community - <snip>

Well put.

As far one One Community goes - I'm looking forward to the day when the most active part of these forums is the TACTICS board. That'd be just lovely.