Hey Ramm-Jaeger what happened to hero status & MkB42H/AVT40 being rare weapons?

[LMAOser]

Of course what is really funny is the cries of "RO2 is already dying", "look at the Steam stats, the player counts have dropped off". This is really funny for a few reasons... So before everyone starts shouting "look RO2 is dying" you need to realize this is just part of the normal life cycle of the game.

Though it's admittedly difficult to determine someone's tone through text, I always get the impression that you're being slightly condescending.

In many of your posts, you use quotations that overgeneralize our arguments that subsequently diminishes the argument's legitimacy. I feel as though when you're using these quotations, you're primarily using a caricature of what you assume to be the typical person on the forum. Usually, this caricature seems to represent the more extreme people on the forums and not the average person. We've presented a decent point here - that the Mkb-42 is not wanted by many of the people on the forums. I think that is perfectly reasonable to question.

By saying that something is funny, you're implying that we are somehow on a lower field of a intelligence than you. I'm not trying to say you aren't intelligent, but I think you should avoid language that gives the impression that you're presumptuous. I think this will solve some of the developer bashing and add legitimacy to what you're saying.

 

[[TW]Ramm-Jaeger]

I'm not sure if you really have the first bit of that. I'm still thinking that the future size of the game's playerbase is uncertain at best. With BF3 around the corner it'll certainly take more to get those numbers up.

Well you are entitled to your opinion of course, but given the actual data and not opinion that I gave you showing that RO2 is the most popular game Tripwire have ever released in regards to player counts I'll have to disagree And there is always some other game around the corner - how many COD and BF games came and went and were never able to kill RO1. When you offer players something unique that they can't get anywhere else, there is always a market.

 

[Kosigan]

All our hopes in terms of rare weapon access depend on the SDK then. Figures.

 

[Lanter]

I see the week of vacation did you good, ramm. Really got your cool back. Anyway, I am satisfied by the explanation you guys offered. With the stats fixed and later on an option to disable rare weapons this might just really be a game I will end up playing for years. The beta before the unlocks were unlocked was some of the most fun I ever had with a shooter. Now all I want is a server side option to disable countdown and I will be a happy panda :lol

 

[[TW]Ramm-Jaeger]

Though it's admittedly difficult to determine someone's tone through text, I always get the impression that you're being slightly condescending.

I don't aim to be condescending, but I do point out sillyness when I see it. And guys claiming that RO2 is dying falls into the "tin foil hat wearing" category to me. This is mainly due to my experience of having people pop up after every game release I've ever done for the past ten years saying "game x is dying". Go search for "Killing Floor is dying" posts in the KF forums you'll find a bunch of them. The only problem is KF player counts keep going up and up Same thing with RO1 going back to the mod in 2003. RO1 had almost 4 years of consistent player counts (I can see the player count history in my dev Steam page), yet there were RO is dying threads every few months. I have been known to be sarcastic or joking at times as well. I don't believe devs have to be stuffy all the time

 

[[TW]Ramm-Jaeger]

All our hopes in terms of rare weapon access depend on the SDK then. Figures.

Yes that is exactly what all of these posts said

 

[melipone]

Well you are entitled to your opinion of course, but given the actual data and not opinion that I gave you showing that RO2 is the most popular game Tripwire have ever released in regards to player counts I'll have to disagree And there is always some other game around the corner - how many COD and BF games came and went and were never able to kill RO1. When you offer players something unique that they can't get anywhere else, there is always a market.

I'm glad you guys sold the game well. RO2 was an automatic purchase for me and I actually was happy to pay the full price just because I want to support good companies. I played Red Orchestra: Ostfront solidly for years, its the best WW2 game I've ever played. I helped spread the word on other forums about TWI and RO2 based on my expectations from RO1 and Killing Floor. I just expected a different type of gameplay from RO2. I fully expected it to be more accessible and I don't actually mind leveling and unlocks. It just feels lacking in some areas, especially the easier gameplay for semis/smgs and sheer volume of them, and the lower feeling of authenticity in the WW2 setting (some unlocks).

There are many good things about RO2 though, just some areas of gameplay really need to be tweaked for me to start getting properly involved in it. I hold RO2 to a VERY high standard, higher than other company's games. I'm sure RO2 could be doing a lot better if some things were changed. The number of sales is great and it is being played, but the bar could be set a lot higher

 

[Lanter]

There are many good things about RO2 though, just some areas of gameplay really need to be tweaked for me to start getting properly involved in it. I hold RO2 to a VERY high standard, higher than other company's games. I'm sure RO2 could be doing a lot better if some things were changed. The number of sales is great and it is being played, but the bar could be set a lot higher

Some less semis most certainly wouldn't hurt no. It would be fantastic if there was a system that would allow server side weapon distribution tweaking. I am all for choice. Or that the devs would at least more use of the difference between realism and regular mode. I would love to see more sway when fatigued for example, to promote careful movement. But I can see this having no place in relaxed realism. Then agian, I am not a dev. I might be forgetting other impacts this would have on gameplay. I'll see how the game turns out in the coming months

 

[Das Bose]

Thanks Ramm I'm enjoying it a lot so far and looking forward to all we have to come. Great to see HOS is a success and thanks for keeping us up to date :IS2:

 

[Party Plane Jones]

Having played through the original UT2004 mod and through Ostfront and through this beta I have to say you could have avoided 95% of the MKb whining issues by actually making the default PPSh the drum one, or by switching the Soviet DDE weapon to the PPS-42/43. As it stands with the reset it is going to be fun to watch Soviet teams be massacred because they have the box mags and uncontrollable AVT-40s against the hipshot miracle that is the MKb. It's not so much rarity as parity, the Soviet side feels vastly underpowered since they don't get nearly the breadth and depth of useful upgrades that the Germans do.

 

[Nenjin]

I don't believe devs have to be stuffy all the time

I'd just like to point out that when fans measure your ever word and phrase, "not being stuffy" can backfire. The best way to avoid the kind of feedback you got in this thread you don't want.....is to be stuffy because it's safe. Having been one of the first posters on the KF board.....these are different times for you guys and perhaps that calls for a slightly less informal treatment of fan feedback.

I know you guys have a tradition of straight contact with your fans and that's cool...but I think as times changes you need to re-evaluate exactly how you talk to fans as well.

 

[Kashash]

You can clearly see the majority of ppl based on a poll, comments, that do not want the MkB42/AVT40 and whatnot. Yet you seem to disregard them and keep dwelling on being impervious to any arguments as if RO2 is great no matter what. The small percentage of the people on the forum doesn't necessarily mean the rest of the community isn't of the same opinion. I think the poll just in another thread very accurately represents more or less the entire base of players.

 

[Crusher]

I wasn't bothered by the MKB being in the game, just that we weren't told about the pretty big game change that made the rare weapons not rare at all. It sounded pretty good: rare weapons will be actually rare, quite an improvement from RO1. But atm only bolts are rare for all the wrong reasons.
For me there are too many specialized classes and not enough riflemen. It's a completely different gamestyle compared to RO1 and even in RO1 people were complaining there were too many SMGs. But RO2 is fun in it's own way, but lockdown kind of ruins it for me. I know the logic behind the feature but it stresses me too much to play while checking a short timer, a long timer and reinforcements. Might be just me ofcourse.

 

[Couac]

Remember the PPD40 and the MP41? They were rare weapons, but were featured in almost every map. And yet there was almost never a mention of the PPD40, and just only a slight murmur over the use of the MP41.

Well that is because those two weapons weren't overpowered like the MKB is.
With the MP4x and the PPD40 you were very lucky if you managed to hit a target 300ft away, or you had to empty a clip to do so.
The Mkb is superior to almost every weapons of the game in any situation :
For long range combats it is almost as accurate as any rifle or semi auto rifle, even if you don't aim that well you can't miss your target with a 30 bullets clip.
It is also very good at CQB not as good as the PPSH, but far better than any AVT, SVT, or any other rifle/smg for that matter.

I still think this matter needs to be fixed and I really hope it will be.

 

[greenlemonade]

One of the things I always loved about RO1 was it required less suspension of disbelief than other WW2 games. I think that is the unique product that you offer and what will keep people coming to RO2 for years.

That said, its very obvious that people don't like the prototypes being so common. Wouldn't it make most people happy if in Realism mode, prototypes were Elite Rifleman only weapons?


Also, in regards to "could this weapon have been there", I can't find any pictures from Stalingrad of PPSHs with stick mags. Only drum mags. Making the stick mag the rare optional unlock with fast reloading would bring loads of realism and shut up a lot of the people complaining about the German bias.

 

[DiedTrying]

As Jared has said regarding the weapon loadouts, we changed our mind during the course of the development. The original way that we were planning to do it wasn't looking like it was going to fit in as well as we'd like. So we implemented it a different way. Given that Ostfront used STG44's in a similar amount (or more) I'm quite surprised at the outcry. There weren't any 100 page threads in Ostfront with tons of people in an uproar over having "too many assault rifles" in Danzig and similar maps. We designed RO2 with pretty close to the same realism measures that we did in RO1. We've always had some odd weapons in the game, and we've always done things where we abstracted functionality to make it fun to play. The question we always asked was "can this weapon have possibly been there". If the answer was yes, it was fair game to put it in there. Remember the PPD40 and the MP41? They were rare weapons, but were featured in almost every map. And yet there was almost never a mention of the PPD40, and just only a slight murmur over the use of the MP41.

I think what the main problem is, and something none of you have addressed is that this "change" was never really made public before release. This thread is the first I've heard confirmation of a change.

Was it not important enough to tell the community you were essentially scrapping the whole hero idea (at least for the time being; lets face it heroes are practically pointless) and allowing numerous players to carry a weapon that would influence all future military firearms (Nah, that wouldn't piss off any potential buyers....)?

In RO1, I didn't see as many (smaller servers; I know) STG's or see them dominate like they do (perhaps something with recoil...I didnt use STG much in ROst) I've never had a problem with the ppsh and still don't, but the MKB is a bit of a nuisance. One or two per map would have been bearable and it appears you are wising up.

I believe this thread has morphed into more than just "Omgz MKB" and more like a general thread where all of our frustrations are focused and intensified on one aspect.

 

[dweeb]

All our hopes in terms of rare weapon access depend on the SDK then. Figures.

Uh, in THIS VERY THREAD there is a post by a dev saying that a feature is coming that will allow servers to lock out/limit weapons. (Which one can presume virtually all realism focused servers will do once available) Explain to me how that dosen't solve the problem?

 

[Crazyeyes24]

My question is, when the server settings that limit the weapon/class loadouts are finished and release, will it have any affect on the ranking status of a server? (Although I feel like almost everyone else already has their stats up to the max except for myself )

Thanks for the replies, you guys did need some rest!

 

[Stahlhelmii]

Uh, in THIS VERY THREAD there is a post by a dev saying that a feature is coming that will allow servers to lock out/limit weapons. (Which one can presume virtually all realism focused servers will do once available) Explain to me how that dosen't solve the problem?

Because it would pigeon-hole players into a limited number of servers, limit their options or even ability to enter a game when they'd like to play, etc. Conversely, one could ask: Why not have a "feature that will allow servers to INCLUDE those weapons?" We're talking about the core essence of the game. Hell, Black Ops has hardcore, but it's still Black Ops (no, not call this Black Ops, I'm making a point).

 

[dweeb]

Because it would pigeon-hole players into a limited number of servers, limit their options or even ability to enter a game when they'd like to play, etc. Conversely, one could ask: Why not have a "feature that will allow servers to INCLUDE those weapons?" We're talking about the core essence of the game. Hell, Black Ops has hardcore, but it's still Black Ops (no, not call this Black Ops, I'm making a point).

I'm sorry this just dosen't make sense. It will pigeon hole you how? By not forcing all servers to have the settings you prefer? It will limit your ability to play how? Because you will refuse to play on any server that dosen't have the exact # of automatics that you prefer? Most of the servers are run by people who played ro1. I'm sure lots of them will limit weapons.