![[TW]Wilsonam](/data/avatars/s/0/10.jpg?1568638684){kind=avatar}
One of their devs will be in our office next week - one of the key criteria being that it has to work with the Steam overlay...
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Heroes of Stalingrad
- Thread starter nKM
- Start date
I never really realized some people like the crosshair so much. For the last year or so the 3 games (ro, bc2, kf) I've played most don't have it and I manage just fine.
Its just a another thing you get used to, but I guess some competitive players don't want to acquire new skills. It was nice to see many of them want something new and their interest in RO2 aiming mechanics.
Any game can be competitive, red faction 1 is just as competitive to me as RO. Even though the gameplay and mechanics are nothing alike.
I find it strange many people seem to think for a game to be competitive it needs almost quake like shooting mechanics.
Its just a another thing you get used to, but I guess some competitive players don't want to acquire new skills. It was nice to see many of them want something new and their interest in RO2 aiming mechanics.
Any game can be competitive, red faction 1 is just as competitive to me as RO. Even though the gameplay and mechanics are nothing alike.
I find it strange many people seem to think for a game to be competitive it needs almost quake like shooting mechanics.
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Baseball isn't enough like rugby? I would love to see some ear tearing violence in baseball. 
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+1 Said better than I could.
Why bother with a war setting if you're going to have rail guns? I remember those that thought bunny hopping was a valid military tactic because it was "in the game." If you didn't like the bunny hopping it was because you sucked at it and didn't has the skills......
Why not just play Painkiller?I hope TW will not stray too far from what makes RO RO for us.
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Just read the RO Clan Match Support Info List and have to say it looks VERY sweet.
AND you can get some more NEW info about RO2 out of it...
AND you can get some more NEW info about RO2 out of it...
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As has been said the atmosphere in the room was comfortable , with the mix of expert's on game building and those that use whats being built.
I found that as a RO player that TWI know's exactly what and for whom there builing this game , the element's in the game to allow competative league play are there.
For those clans that wish to play a realism based historical roleplay , its all there.
Those that wish too set up a 5 v5 / 8 v8 league match its there , or a full scale clan war np.
For pub's that want all the nicknaks and candy theres a shop full of recognition.
None of the above will interfere with each other , all will be abled to be filtered out or in of the browser.
As many in the room were as of yet non RO players there was stunned silence if only momentarly at the understanding nature of the dialog that was happening.....no real supprise too those in the room that know RO.
I thoroughly enjoyed the 2+ hrs of the dialog , and my few concerns put too rest.
The tide has turned and for those for whom WWII stuff is not there thing then the mods are following up......did i just hear the sword being drawn for a knighthood , probably not.....but the cracking of many a smile for sure
I found that as a RO player that TWI know's exactly what and for whom there builing this game , the element's in the game to allow competative league play are there.
For those clans that wish to play a realism based historical roleplay , its all there.
Those that wish too set up a 5 v5 / 8 v8 league match its there , or a full scale clan war np.
For pub's that want all the nicknaks and candy theres a shop full of recognition.
None of the above will interfere with each other , all will be abled to be filtered out or in of the browser.
As many in the room were as of yet non RO players there was stunned silence if only momentarly at the understanding nature of the dialog that was happening.....no real supprise too those in the room that know RO.
I thoroughly enjoyed the 2+ hrs of the dialog , and my few concerns put too rest.
The tide has turned and for those for whom WWII stuff is not there thing then the mods are following up......did i just hear the sword being drawn for a knighthood , probably not.....but the cracking of many a smile for sure
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So how this "PB+VAC" thing will work?
Isnt it really pointless having VAC if you use PB already, being there is no advantage in VAC and why would you need two programms scanning the same thing twice?
To go even further wont this lead to more potential problems e.g. both hinder themselves in their work or even leading to false detections (detecting eachother)?
For example some league anti-cheats even dont work in conjunction with other anti-cheats like VAC/PB or else it would lead to a ban/kick by PB/VAC !
Also PB already needs many resources - i remember having cpu usage of 20-40% (PnkBstrB.exe) while playing Bc2 !
(http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/5806875.page[url]http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/5806875.page[/URL])
and now you have two of them doing basically the same !
Valve alreday did contact evenbalance to fix this problem long time ago, but nothing happend since then! (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14082166&postcount=54[url]http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14082166&postcount=54[/URL])
So why would they change their mind now?
Isnt it really pointless having VAC if you use PB already, being there is no advantage in VAC and why would you need two programms scanning the same thing twice?
To go even further wont this lead to more potential problems e.g. both hinder themselves in their work or even leading to false detections (detecting eachother)?
For example some league anti-cheats even dont work in conjunction with other anti-cheats like VAC/PB or else it would lead to a ban/kick by PB/VAC !
Also PB already needs many resources - i remember having cpu usage of 20-40% (PnkBstrB.exe) while playing Bc2 !
(http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/5806875.page[url]http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/5806875.page[/URL])
and now you have two of them doing basically the same !
Valve alreday did contact evenbalance to fix this problem long time ago, but nothing happend since then! (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14082166&postcount=54[url]http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14082166&postcount=54[/URL])
So why would they change their mind now?
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Apparently not, as not every game has it's own section in ESL for instance. There is theory and there is reality, we live in reality.
I don't find it strange at all. If you have never played a game competitively that does not have crosshair, it is fully understandable that you might wonder how it would really work.
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I'm not even sure that crosshairs would serve any purpose due to the freeaim built into the game. TWI, you should have let him play the beta and done the old admin trick where you type a "+" into admin chat and make them think they have a working X-hair.
The funniest thing is that it will actually satisfy them.. talk about a placebo effect
Why not get a marker and write an + in the middle of your screen
Also wanting to hear what BF2 ppl want and feel about what they heard, recording?
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One of the main ideas behind competitive gaming is to try and remove random elements and leave skill. A random element example could be map artillery that is fired randomly.
But as we've touched on earlier that doesn't mean RO has to become some kinda railshooter or cs 1.6 2.0. Ro competitive play will be different from both Bf2, and Cod and hopefully it catches on in a new direction instead of the same old same old.
There are so many other elements that play a key role in RO like tactics, sure tactics matter in cs and cod on a competitive level as well but in RO.. bunnyhop-acing a team of 8-15 players isn't really gonna work on a daily basis. Ro2 competitive play will be something different as Ramm said.
The support by TWI is quite awesome tbh, i really hope the community embraces this game and the opportunity given.
But as we've touched on earlier that doesn't mean RO has to become some kinda railshooter or cs 1.6 2.0. Ro competitive play will be different from both Bf2, and Cod and hopefully it catches on in a new direction instead of the same old same old.
There are so many other elements that play a key role in RO like tactics, sure tactics matter in cs and cod on a competitive level as well but in RO.. bunnyhop-acing a team of 8-15 players isn't really gonna work on a daily basis. Ro2 competitive play will be something different as Ramm said.
The support by TWI is quite awesome tbh, i really hope the community embraces this game and the opportunity given.
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There's RO2 areas now in many of the more popular FPS forums.......... Some have been there since the very first announcement for RO2. :IS2:
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Judging from my experiences with realism units and matches in RnL, I could say that competitive gameplay in RO2 has the potential to not rely on individual skill so much as teamwork.
If you have shown that you are particularly proficient with a certain firearm, you may have been promoted to a designated marksman or machine gunner. But once you're in a match, the most important thing to do is to do your job correctly.
If you have shown that you are particularly proficient with a certain firearm, you may have been promoted to a designated marksman or machine gunner. But once you're in a match, the most important thing to do is to do your job correctly.
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Really nice discussion, it was a blast to be there and talk with the guys for another 2+ hours.
Everybody except one guy were very polite, disciplined and respectful!
Everybody except one guy were very polite, disciplined and respectful!
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My impression also.... Teamwork, at first for many, will be difficult to acclimate to. They'll learn. Those who use teamwork will always win over the free rollers.
NO CROSSHAIRS please, no crosshairs. :IS2:
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Hi everyone,
I'm nKM, I hosted the conference with Ramm-Jaeger and Wilsonam.
I just read through this thread and I would like to clear up some of the comments made herein:-
Well, the conference was specifically for competitive gamers, and many of the attendees and those I consulted in the Battlefield community about the game were not RO fans or indeed aware of it. TWI has made an effort to make HoS more accessible to those not familiar with RO, and I was asked to host the conference by TWI and invite gamers from non-RO gaming scenes to ask questions.
In reality, the turn out was quite low - a combination of it being Saturday night and the Dreamhack Summer event going on in Sweden meant that some of the people I really wanted to be there could not be there, including for example, reps from ESL and H2KTV. Hopefully in a subsequent discussion they will be able to make it and give thier input.
I don't think that is a fair comment to make. Did you listen to the discussion?
There was a bit of disagreement on certain points of the discussion, yes. I wouldn't go as far to say that it was 'lame and unnecessary'. Prior to the meeting, John Gibson, Alan Wilson, UmPato and I had exchanged a number of emails, Skype chats etc. and it was said that the discussions would be frank and honest, and I'd say that is what these kinds of meetings will always become.
A number of people started to flame Klasbo publicly and privately to me. He made certain comments disagreeable to the RO contingent in the channel, however I would not say that he was being lame. He simply had an opinion in the minority. He wasn't abusive, and he wasn't detracting from the discussion - he simply didn't see the point in certain features in the game and is perfectly within his right to say so. Any games developer will have consumers who disagree with thier outlook on and it's not unreasonable to expect that there will be disagreements.
In summary, he wasn't offensive, so he wasn't muted, as some of you asked or expected.
To your second point - Yes, the game does have a lot of the functionality that we need in a competitive game, but if you think that we want HoS to be BF2 or COD4 then you need to do a bit of research on our community. Nobody wants TWI to turn out another BF2 game, we just want to have the competitive support from the developers.
As was detailed in the thread title, it was a competitive discussion.
I don't understand where this 'unappreciative' tone is coming from. I think it was said a number of times during the conference that we were delighted to see a developer listening to the community. I think it's rather short-sighted to presume that because the particular BF guys involved don't consider everything TWI has done to be appropriate for competitive gaming that some how we don't appreciate that TWI has got a lot of things right and giving us something that AAA devs won't.
For example, someone queried the value of the Heros in the game, from a competitive standpoint. I clarified with him and others that it's not the Heros itself that is important, it's more the fact that we have the ability modify its effect in the game. So, we can have 1 hero per team, or 4, or indeed none at all. The ability to change the variable itself is more important than what Hero actually does, and for that we are grateful.
I've got some choice articles here that detail some of the issues we had in our scene:- [url]http://www.cadred.org/Users/Details/Articles/82873/[/URL]
Exactly, if everyone was in the channel backslapping each other and talking about how great John and Alan are, they would get nothing useful out of it. I would defy anyone to say that last nights discussion wasn't productive for TWI.
Again, a few people were on IRC saying they'd be told they'd get beta keys for joining in the chat. I have no idea where that came from. The chat was for Competitive Support only. Sorry to anyone who was misinformed.
It was - we'll edit it into something listenable over the next few days I expect, and post it here.
...which can hopefully be used in conjunction with Steam IDs to make competitive matches as secure as possible. I'm very pleased about this myself.
No worries. It was very informative for those not involved in RO, and yes it is exciting to see this kind of support pre-beta.
Crosshairs are a staple in FPS games. There will always be people who dislike the lack of it, regardless of the aiming mechanics.
I don't agree. I never once felt that anyone had to be muted or kicked from the channel because what they said. Disagreements are normal in this kind of environment. RO is not going to win everybody over, in the same way that I would expect some RO players or not fond of BF or COD4.
I don't believe the person in question was disrespectful, I just think it appears that way because some people had inflated expectations of what the discussion was going to produce, and somehow any animated discussions with the devs over gameplay features or functionality was somehow going to jeapordise that?
I'm sure if Alan or John felt threatened enough by someones opinion they could have responded appropriately to it. I'm sure they will come here and clarify that themselves.
Yes, we literally opened that forum a couple of days ago and the awareness in our communty of HoS is very low, hence the inactivity. Hopefully discussions like this and the articles I'm going to write to support it will change that.
Me too. I'm glad you grasped the topic of the discussion as well as you did. Thanks for taking part.
*applaud*
This is exactly why people wanted to query it.
In summary, those that took part conducted themselves well. I hope that we can have further meetings like this and we can help shape the competitive features of the game.
I do hope that the RO veterans don't feel we are in someway diluting the RO experience by getting involved. We're attracted to RO2 because of its competitive support and our scene has a lot of talented modders, mappers and veterans of its own that would like to help you guys get the best out of competitive gaming and give our own ideas on how to make it great.
An example of that was the discussion on including in-game advertisments somehow in the game (in the geometry, or welcome screen, or overlay), to help stimulate interest from sponsors. It's been proven before that this works and helps competitive gaming flourish.
I hope to see you all on the battlefield when RO2 comes out - I'm sure we can give the veterans a run for thier money
I'm nKM, I hosted the conference with Ramm-Jaeger and Wilsonam.
I just read through this thread and I would like to clear up some of the comments made herein:-
Well, the conference was specifically for competitive gamers, and many of the attendees and those I consulted in the Battlefield community about the game were not RO fans or indeed aware of it. TWI has made an effort to make HoS more accessible to those not familiar with RO, and I was asked to host the conference by TWI and invite gamers from non-RO gaming scenes to ask questions.
In reality, the turn out was quite low - a combination of it being Saturday night and the Dreamhack Summer event going on in Sweden meant that some of the people I really wanted to be there could not be there, including for example, reps from ESL and H2KTV. Hopefully in a subsequent discussion they will be able to make it and give thier input.
I don't think that is a fair comment to make. Did you listen to the discussion?
There was a bit of disagreement on certain points of the discussion, yes. I wouldn't go as far to say that it was 'lame and unnecessary'. Prior to the meeting, John Gibson, Alan Wilson, UmPato and I had exchanged a number of emails, Skype chats etc. and it was said that the discussions would be frank and honest, and I'd say that is what these kinds of meetings will always become.
A number of people started to flame Klasbo publicly and privately to me. He made certain comments disagreeable to the RO contingent in the channel, however I would not say that he was being lame. He simply had an opinion in the minority. He wasn't abusive, and he wasn't detracting from the discussion - he simply didn't see the point in certain features in the game and is perfectly within his right to say so. Any games developer will have consumers who disagree with thier outlook on and it's not unreasonable to expect that there will be disagreements.
In summary, he wasn't offensive, so he wasn't muted, as some of you asked or expected.
To your second point - Yes, the game does have a lot of the functionality that we need in a competitive game, but if you think that we want HoS to be BF2 or COD4 then you need to do a bit of research on our community. Nobody wants TWI to turn out another BF2 game, we just want to have the competitive support from the developers.
I just saw the link recently and jumped in, had hoped it was an RO clan interviewing instead of some random bf2 guys that haven't even played the first game.
This is my opinions*
As was detailed in the thread title, it was a competitive discussion.
I don't understand where this 'unappreciative' tone is coming from. I think it was said a number of times during the conference that we were delighted to see a developer listening to the community. I think it's rather short-sighted to presume that because the particular BF guys involved don't consider everything TWI has done to be appropriate for competitive gaming that some how we don't appreciate that TWI has got a lot of things right and giving us something that AAA devs won't.
For example, someone queried the value of the Heros in the game, from a competitive standpoint. I clarified with him and others that it's not the Heros itself that is important, it's more the fact that we have the ability modify its effect in the game. So, we can have 1 hero per team, or 4, or indeed none at all. The ability to change the variable itself is more important than what Hero actually does, and for that we are grateful.
I've got some choice articles here that detail some of the issues we had in our scene:- [url]http://www.cadred.org/Users/Details/Articles/82873/[/URL]
Exactly, if everyone was in the channel backslapping each other and talking about how great John and Alan are, they would get nothing useful out of it. I would defy anyone to say that last nights discussion wasn't productive for TWI.
Again, a few people were on IRC saying they'd be told they'd get beta keys for joining in the chat. I have no idea where that came from. The chat was for Competitive Support only. Sorry to anyone who was misinformed.
dam i missed it
Hope it was recorded
It was - we'll edit it into something listenable over the next few days I expect, and post it here.
...which can hopefully be used in conjunction with Steam IDs to make competitive matches as secure as possible. I'm very pleased about this myself.
Thanks guys for a great, informal and very informative chat. I am starting to feel just a little itch of excitement.
Also to hear you talking so openly about listening to the community and making changes based on feedback is very encouraging! Even though I knew that about you already
Oh and thanks to nKM for the heads up!
No worries. It was very informative for those not involved in RO, and yes it is exciting to see this kind of support pre-beta.
Crosshairs are a staple in FPS games. There will always be people who dislike the lack of it, regardless of the aiming mechanics.
I don't agree. I never once felt that anyone had to be muted or kicked from the channel because what they said. Disagreements are normal in this kind of environment. RO is not going to win everybody over, in the same way that I would expect some RO players or not fond of BF or COD4.
I don't believe the person in question was disrespectful, I just think it appears that way because some people had inflated expectations of what the discussion was going to produce, and somehow any animated discussions with the devs over gameplay features or functionality was somehow going to jeapordise that?
I'm sure if Alan or John felt threatened enough by someones opinion they could have responded appropriately to it. I'm sure they will come here and clarify that themselves.
Yes, we literally opened that forum a couple of days ago and the awareness in our communty of HoS is very low, hence the inactivity. Hopefully discussions like this and the articles I'm going to write to support it will change that.
Me too. I'm glad you grasped the topic of the discussion as well as you did. Thanks for taking part.
*applaud*
This is exactly why people wanted to query it.
In summary, those that took part conducted themselves well. I hope that we can have further meetings like this and we can help shape the competitive features of the game.
I do hope that the RO veterans don't feel we are in someway diluting the RO experience by getting involved. We're attracted to RO2 because of its competitive support and our scene has a lot of talented modders, mappers and veterans of its own that would like to help you guys get the best out of competitive gaming and give our own ideas on how to make it great.
An example of that was the discussion on including in-game advertisments somehow in the game (in the geometry, or welcome screen, or overlay), to help stimulate interest from sponsors. It's been proven before that this works and helps competitive gaming flourish.
I hope to see you all on the battlefield when RO2 comes out - I'm sure we can give the veterans a run for thier money
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Unedited recording of last nights meeting (Parts 1 and 2 linked on top right).
Starts about 1h:10
http://www.justin.tv/teamrush/b/288337891
Starts about 1h:10
http://www.justin.tv/teamrush/b/288337891
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Martin,
Thanks for hosting. As you've seen, some of our fans are DEEPLY protective of their family (us) and their baby (RO). So don't be too surprised by the potentially rabid reactions to anyone who doesn't "get it" straight off the bat! And some people (blasphemy) just won't like the game!
To the point that "any" game can be competitive: not entirely. Games with randomizing factors don't work so well - cone-fire and random artillery being a couple of examples that spring to mind. We don't do cone-fire - there is bullet drop to account for, as well as items such as the destabilizing of rounds as they go trans-sonic, but that is both predictable and learnable. Random artillery in maps can be removed easily enough.
There was also a point about teamwork: very interesting one - and correct. RO isn't a completely individual game. It can be played that way, but a team that is well co-ordinated and commincating will usually decimate a group of individuals.
And, after all is said and done - people need the chance to try the game and see if they like it. All the comp support we can offer is worth nothing if the game sucks big hairy ones! Obviously, we think they will love it once they try it
Thanks for hosting. As you've seen, some of our fans are DEEPLY protective of their family (us) and their baby (RO). So don't be too surprised by the potentially rabid reactions to anyone who doesn't "get it" straight off the bat! And some people (blasphemy) just won't like the game!
To the point that "any" game can be competitive: not entirely. Games with randomizing factors don't work so well - cone-fire and random artillery being a couple of examples that spring to mind. We don't do cone-fire - there is bullet drop to account for, as well as items such as the destabilizing of rounds as they go trans-sonic, but that is both predictable and learnable. Random artillery in maps can be removed easily enough.
There was also a point about teamwork: very interesting one - and correct. RO isn't a completely individual game. It can be played that way, but a team that is well co-ordinated and commincating will usually decimate a group of individuals.
And, after all is said and done - people need the chance to try the game and see if they like it. All the comp support we can offer is worth nothing if the game sucks big hairy ones! Obviously, we think they will love it once they try it
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Yesterday I asked if you guys are planning to implement an option to turn random arty off, no answer
Within the competitive RO scene I had the idea to make special maps for clan matches where I would indeed edit out random arty by hand. The problem with that is though, that people would need to download a huge amount of maps which would be quite a big amount of megabytes in total as well.
I'm sure it can be done with a mutator but having it as a vanilla feature is the best option.
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Saying things like this is what makes people believe in TWI.And, after all is said and done - people need the chance to try the game and see if they like it. All the comp support we can offer is worth nothing if the game sucks big hairy ones! Obviously, we think they will love it once they try it
Thanks a lot.
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