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Will HoS present the netcode disadvantages of UE3?

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#28
[TW]Ramm-Jaeger said:
Finally, there are the games with the so called "lag compensation". I've never been a fan of this so called lag compensation because of the side effects it causes. If you have ever been playing an online game and walked completely around a corner only to die when noone could possibly have shot you, it was likely do to lag compensation. With these systems the server stores a list of locations and where a player was at a particular time. Then when a player shoots on his client it sends the firing info and a timestamp to the server. So when the server receives this information it basically "rewinds" back to the point in time when the client fired and checks to see if the shot from some time in the past would hit the player back then. The problem with this system is, that depending upon players ping everyone playing the game has a different view of where the other players are at a particular time. This is why on your machine you could be behind a wall, but the player (who you may not even be able to see on your machine) who has a higher ping than you sees you where you were a short time ago and shoots and kills you. So this is why I think lag compensation sucks :)
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This is something i am very glad to hear Ramm, what you just described is one of the major flaws in for instance BFBC2, i can't stress how annoying it is to constantly get killed after you've run around a corner or into cover, just because the lag compensation.

It's something i've always found annoying, and thats why i love games that give me instant feedback instead.

Another thing which happens quite regularly in a game like BFBC2 is that you kill each other with bullets at the exact same time(two players on opposite teams) something that should be very very rare, instead in BC2 it can happen quite often and i suspect its related to this lag compensation.

In RO 1, i've never been in a situation where i kill an enemy solider and he kills me at the same time with bullets, and thats how it should be. Can't wait for RO2 with some decent netcode :D
 
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#29
[TW]Ramm-Jaeger said:
If you had to do it in ROOST then you had to be playing with a bad ping or packetloss or some other issue.
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I think what he means is that you have to lead the target due to the bullet flight delay caused by lag. In close quarters of course the delay will be a lot less because the bullet flight duration due to ballistics is negligible, but then players will also traverse the screen much more quickly when they are close.
 
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#31
Volodnikov said:
I have, although it happens rarely.
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I have as well. It happens reasonably often for me in RO1, but that's because I'm unfortunately an American and have to suffer pings of 160 or higher which results in pretty nasty bullet lag. I've heard the same exact things from alot of my American friends that I play RO with.

Still not super common, though. The biggest result of the lag is just that I have to aim way ahead of moving targets and spray a lot more in CQB.

Hopefully RO1 will have alot more US servers and I won't have to experience this kind of thing again!
 
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#33
I love how informative this thread got. I can attest to RO having superior netcode and I would expect nothing different than RO2.

Nothing is more infuriating in a shooter than being positive you hit someone only to have nothing happen after which you, of course, die resulting in more rage. Option 1 sucks.
 
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#35
[TW]Ramm-Jaeger said:
If you had to do it in ROOST then you had to be playing with a bad ping or packetloss or some other issue.
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If someone runs at 7m/s and got 100ms ping. then that means that when a target shows on screen in reality he is .7 meters further away.

Now .7 meters doesn't mean a lot at long range as .7 meters is then just a few pixels. But if an enemy is within a few meters of you this easily means that you need to aim 200 pixels ahead of someone. And especially if someone is quickly changing direction it can really become difficult to hit someone close by.

Its one of the reasons (together with free aim after releasing your bayo) why you often see those bayo fights where people completely cannot hit each other and run around in circles.

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Personally for me I'd prefer to play just with my regular ping at local low ping servers. But optional anti lag would be great for being able to enjoy matches overseas or as a college student with crap college internet, and especially with players hosting a local coop campaign on their shabby home connection.

Although it looks like the unreal engine got anti lag as well by your statement by means of forward prediction. Do you mean just for visually showing that someone moves rather than showing individual server ticks. Or real forward prediction that takes ping into account?

[TW]Ramm-Jaeger said:
I prefer the Unreal net code methodology which uses client side prediction instead of lag compensation. When a programmer knows what they are doing and uses the Unreal net code properly client side prediction gives all of the clients connected to a server a very very close picture of where the other players are actually at on the server at all times. It does this by predicting the physics and movement of the other players. It does this pretty good for super-fast games like UT, and when you slow this down to real world movement speeds like in Red Orchestra this system is rock solid. In other words, in RO when you shoot at someone you can pretty much guarantee they are at where you see them at (up to a ping of 200ms). Likewise when you get SHOT by someone on RO, it was because they could see where you are currently at, not where you WERE a short time ago.
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So is that forward prediction as in lag compensation, or just continuing the states of a player so he doesn't move in stop motion?
 
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#36
Somehow I feel it happens reasonably often in RO that you shoot the enemy and him you with bullets. At 40 meters distance it is not that strange that we both fire off a killing bullet within 0.05 seconds. Many times it is a 50/50 who shoots first, so it is only natural that it many times is very close like that. For me it happens a lot more in distances around 100 meter than around 20 meter :D.
 
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#37
I've played enough on European servers to where I know roughly how much to lead a target, if at all. I can enjoy myself with up to 200 ping as long as I know my limitations. Ex: as a rifleman, stay out of close quarters combat and get into long and medium range combat. Half the time the players are running straight at you anyways and you don't need to lead a target.
 
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