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Radar on RO HOS - Big Error of Tripware

I think displaying the range of a kill is unnecessary, and possibly detrimental.

In RO currently, you can get shot without knowing where the shot came from. This is the shooter's reward for finding a nice hiding spot. A range indicator could possibly reveal your killers location.
 
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I think displaying the range of a kill is unnecessary, and possibly detrimental.

In RO currently, you can get shot without knowing where the shot came from. This is the shooter's reward for finding a nice hiding spot. A range indicator could possibly reveal your killers location.

I'm hoping we don't get Death Messages on "Realism" servers. Since the IS view is closer to what one would really see, we should be able to get a realistic idea if we shot the guy or not. Otherwise, it's magical info we shouldn't receive - letting one know the "coast is clear" to move out of cover.
 
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I'm hoping we don't get Death Messages on "Realism" servers. Since the IS view is closer to what one would really see, we should be able to get a realistic idea if we shot the guy or not. Otherwise, it's magical info we shouldn't receive - letting one know the "coast is clear" to move out of cover.

I bet death messages on/off will be one of those features that will depend on the server mode
 
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I bet death messages on/off will be one of those features that will depend on the server mode

I hate death messages, but unfortunately for me I haven't seen a single server with death messages disabled since October '09. The last one I saw them disabled was DH's 29th ID. So I think death messages should only be enabled in relaxed realism, and I really hope to see very, very few relaxed realism servers.
 
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I have mixed feelings about death messages

having them turned on kills immersion, but feels rewarding when you kill enemies, and the battlefield is more lively, it gives you a perspective of what is going on.

when they are turned off, the immersion is great, but it feels like you are playing a single player game and there is nothing really happening in the rest of the map, as you don't see the DM activity.

is taking one thing and letting go of the other, you can't have both.

But if my speculation is right, and DMs are off in the hardcore realism mode, it would be great news for you fans of no DMs
 
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I have mixed feelings about death messages

having them turned on kills immersion, but feels rewarding when you kill enemies, and the battlefield is more lively, it gives you a perspective of what is going on.

when they are turned off, the immersion is great, but it feels like you are playing a single player game and there is nothing really happening in the rest of the map, as you don't see the DM activity.

is taking one thing and letting go of the other, you can't have both.

But if my speculation is right, and DMs are off in the hardcore realism mode, it would be great news for you fans of no DMs

Personally what I feel to be the best trade off is a slight delay (like say 5 seconds) in the displaying of death messages. So you see the kills of enemies and yourself a few seconds after the enemies died.

This way if you hit someone and he actually survived you won't notice immediately that he's still alive, and would buy a person enough time to get away or fire back. And if you killed someone you still would have doubt whether to rush through the street or not, as you cannot always wait 5 seconds before crossing a street.

Yet you can still comment on the fun part of someone taking down a filled up half-track with a Faust. It just minimalizes the effectiveness of the aspect of utilizing death messages to check whether you actually hit someone.

However I think that details such as the distance someone was killed at should be left out of the realistic realism mode at least.

It is however important that if deathmessages are disabled or delayed, that the Scoreboard appropriately only updates with either a delay, or when the round is over or you died. Otherwise people would end up checking the scoreboard to see if they made a kill.
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In the old rohos gamescon video available at gametrailers only deathmessages for the player himself showed up. Which in my opinion is the worst case scenario.

When you kill someone you then immediately get feedback whether you killed someone. Which is the primary issue made against death messages.

And the entire social aspect on commenting others for their kills and the rivalry involved in killing each other was left out. Which is the primary reason to be for death messages.
 
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I don't know whats wrong with showing the range...

you play a map 2 times and you already memorized all the spots on it, and most of the time those spots are all filled, so basically you end up in situations when 5 guys are shooting at you at the same time. Range would only show the distance that the one bullet that killed you, traveled.

When you know a map and know all the spots thats already unrealistic, because thats player knowledge and not character knowledge, so what is the problem about knowing the range? it only shows how good of a shot someone can be.

for example, if you get killed from 400m... will you be trying to look for that same guy that is 400m away?, or will you try to deal with the other 24 guys that are at 20m?

As far as I know, RO:HoS is not gonna be an open ended sandbox game where surprise attacks matter, and range doesn't even tell you the spot.

In current RO, you can tell the range more or less by the sound so you will immediately know where you were shot from most of the time (except for extreme range) but how helpful would it be to know the exact extreme range? IMO, knowing the range is no less unrealistic than knowing the name of the shooter, acually, is more realistic (and you could tell the range by the sounds, but I doubt many Russians and Germans had their names printed on the bullets.
 
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the thing is there is a social aspect in knowing who killed you yet it doesn't show anything about his whereabouts. (although based on someone's class you can deduct his location). Aka although it might be unrealistic to show this info it doesn't have any affect on the actual game play in any unrealistic terms. The unrealistic part is mostly knowing immediately whether someone is dead or not without actually checking him out first.

If you know the range of friendlies that were shot. You know how close his attacker is. And if you didn't know his location you can then deduct it based on the range.

RO isn't a stealth game, but I don't think it should be a game that tells you information automatically about enemy whereabouts. Nor tell you immediately when someone is capping or in the cap zone before someone has spotted him.
 
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But you can already tell by the sound, knowing the exact number wont tell you anything new as you don't have a ruler that measures the map in real time.

This game is gonna be about epic battles, with cover system and intense firefights... if this was a 1 on 1 duel when both players take positions I could understand your concerns but this is not the case, and as I say knowing the distance in meters wont really help unless you play with the game without sounds... which would be already a handicap for you.

If you are so concerned about hypothetical "what ifs" situations in a serious competitive match, just take the hardcore option without the death messages and problem solved (well, I'm assuming that the option disables DMs here, but I'm quite faithful about it)
 
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But you can already tell by the sound, knowing the exact number wont tell you anything new as you don't have a ruler that measures the map in real time.

This game is gonna be about epic battles, with cover system and intense firefights... if this was a 1 on 1 duel when both players take positions I could understand your concerns but this is not the case, and as I say knowing the distance in meters wont really help unless you play with the game without sounds... which would be already a handicap for you.

If you are so concerned about hypothetical "what ifs" situations in a serious competitive match, just take the hardcore option without the death messages and problem solved (well, I'm assuming that the option disables DMs here, but I'm quite faithful about it)

You can tell where someone is by the sound but you must hear it to do, you can tell by the flash to see where someone is but you must see it to do.

If you know that a friendly of yours got killed within 10 meters of his location you might know his attacker is close to where your friend was. Or if you killed someone at 150 meters you know exactly how to set the range on your gun to kill the guys next to him. However it increases the fun level of killing and gives something to brag about and I don't mind that.

You can hear people their footsteps when they are in a room next to you. But that doesn't mean that the game should give you an indicator or wall hack because you could hear the guy anyway.

A lot of the times you know the enemy is capturing the cap zone, a lot of times you know the enemy is in the cap zone. But if you have a system telling that info to you, you wont have to pay attention any more to it. Plenty of times someone is entering the cap zone without being seen should everybody then automatically know where he is?
When I'm defending a capzone I often don't focus myself on the doorway the enemy might possibly come through i focus myself on the enemy presence meter, and will only start focussing on the door once an enemy has entered the cap.

The same with having death messages, most of the times you know when you killed someone by seeing the blood splatter on the wall behind him. Or because you saw him drop down on the ground yourself. But still there are plenty of occasions where without a system telling you info that you wouldn't know whether you killed someone. And that's where it gets annoying that a system tells you that info.

Perhaps these cases are what if scenarios, but they all happen multiple times per game. I want people to have to find out things themselves in realistic realism even if noticing something would have been easier in real life.

Personally I hope that the game in realistic realism will primarily be pretty much without team notifying and helping indicators. As it takes the tension and excitement away from trying to get something done. I'd prefer death messages to be removed in realistic realism (as long as the scoreboard won't update immediately when you kill). But this might not happen and I think that a good compromise would be to delay the messages.

I don't want a meter to show that someone is entering the capzone, purely because that takes the edge of in trying to find out for yourself if the enemies are there.

I don't want a meter to show that a cap zone is being capped by the enemy, unless there is a friendly in the cap zone that could hypothetically tell that the enemy is capping it.

I don't want an indicator showing me in what direction I got shot. Or in what direction enemies are in my peripheral vision. Because I might have missed them if it was me.

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All those systems make up for the lack of feedback you would have in real life, and are in that sense realistic features. I understand that and respect the justification for their inclusion. But I find that systems like that take away my immersion with the game. Personally the only helpers I would love is being able to see a friendly his name when you press the hud on demand button (up to say 30 meters) so you can call out to someone directly. And a suppression system to make up for the unbridgeable lack of fear in video games (so tactics utilizing suppression can be used effectively). This however is my opinion and I know there are loads of different tastes around.

And those different tastes of people are exactly what made me like the idea of 2 realism settings. 1 realism setting for people that prefer functional realism with systems making up for the lack of feedback you would normally have in real life. And a system for people that want realism without a lot of helpers telling you what is happening around you, so you need to use the actual senses you get as a player to determine what the enemy is doing.

Having a system tell me a lot of information of the battlefield for me takes the the excitement, the tension of not knowing what is happening away. Having to always be on the edge and lookout and relaying information about what is happening. That is what got me interested and made me love RO back in 2.0 when I joined. Not having to worry about checking out a lot of different systems, but plainly looking at my surroundings and communicating with my team mates.
 
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I'm Ok playing both systems so no worries on my part choosing one or the other, and I bet there will be server filters for it.

I think, game mechanics and real perception interface should be the same in both options, while the real realism setting would do stuff like removing scoreboard, death messages, GPS map, or enemy capping presence, and whatever TWI can come up with. Cause those are the really unrealistic features that are in the game, as they are not bound to character perception or anything that can be explained in RL, and now you no longer have the excuse of being harder to know when you kill someone because of the monitor FoV.
 
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I don't think removing the scoreboard is a good idea, but an altered version for realistic realism would be nice. And I think that even the hud on demand system should stay accessible. The hud on demand system just shouldn't give any benefit over people that don't use it. Unrealistic features that don't give any advantage or disadvantage to players, could be enabled and disabled on a client side basis.

Things like hiding the enemy classes their weaponry in the scoreboard is useless in a public game where you can switch sides. And if a score system is made correctly then it will showcase what player is the biggest asset to his team, and showing that in a separate menu shouldn't be an issue either imo.

Since maps never vary and are always the same, I don't think its that bad to show where you are located. The only thing the map is used for (for me at least) is to check what cap zones are in friendly hands and enemy hands its not like you have to navigate unless you play it for the first time. Realistically speaking only a squad leader should have a map.
 
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I don't think its that bad to show where you are located.

so... is this all about? relaxed realism and real realism shouldn't be based on realism but in what is "good" or "bad" according to the subjective views of the "real realism" crowd which holds the only true good way of playing the game and thus, you should decide whats on your game and what is not on it as you see fit?

I never said GPS map was "bad", just unrealistic gamey feature and shouldn't be on the real realism settings, just like death messages and scoreboard (more like score count, list of players should still be ok kept to a basic control of the server)

GPS map wasn't there in the first versions of RO and people did just fine without it.
 
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The only good thing that came out of DM's was the ability to forgive or be forgiven, NP.

The scoreboard never hurt anybody, it is, at worse a measuring stick, reinforcements remaining 9%, I tend to be much more careful and yes, dare I say, play a little more stealthily.

Leave kill distance and all that BS to DoDS, where it belongs and is completely FUBAR and adds absolutely nothing to enhancing game play.

Anyways you get to know your distances after seriously playing the game.

HIDE HUD, I love, not so much in zee Tanks :)eek: wot, who zed Tanks:D).

Carry on Chaps.
 
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