What will we see from RO:HoS at GamesCom 2009?

[Xendance]

Because when you look over the sights of a weapon it does not zoom in. Sorry, how is zooming in creating a more realistic engagement distance? The players are still going to be the same distance from each other, just that each player will now have an invisible scope on their weapons.

Ramm said that they did some investigation regarding the FOV, and they came to a conclusion that everything is approx. two times smaller in game on a 19" screen than it is in real life. That's why they introduced the zoom while you're pressing the breathing button.

 

[SchutzeSepp]

they CAN'T even play now, is not about disadvantage, is that they can't see ****

then what is the problem? they put themselves in that situation by playing fps games with such small screens. what can any game do about that. i played RO for years with a 17'' screen, i never complained.

also, what do you say about ArmA/Flashpoint having that feature? the so called "war simulators", never seen you ***** about the zoom there

i don't know why you get so heated up, i never even mentioned those games. i tried them, and found that they were horrible, impossible to use and unrealistic.

 

[The_Emperor]

then what is the problem? they put themselves in that situation by playing fps games with such small screens. what can any game do about that. i played RO for years with a 17'' screen, i never complained.

I started playing RO Combined Arms on a laptop with a 15" screen and, gee, I wasn't bad at all.
Sure I can smile at this times with my 22" screen at my tower pc, but it's not so hard to get some shots done with smaller screen.

Although I can go for RO's max resolution but I don't 1280x1024 is yet enough to see almost any one farting a mile away.


We've seen Alpha footage and as it's an alpha it's yet quite awesome.

In the video one can see the a non-empty reload of the MP40, looks nice. I hope the empty reloading is no longer the one of Ostfront. I hate the safety notch thing. No other gun has this in the game and honestly no one in combat zone, except the super disciplined Marines, would switch to safety for reloading. C'mon guys this is Eastern Front!

I found a real life footage video from a Russian television series:



I just recorded the MP40 reportage and left out the other weapons which are not of interest.
The animation I'd love to see is in at 0:10 to 0:13, it's realistic not too fast and the hell there's no safety notch!

 

[Fedorov]

then what is the problem? they put themselves in that situation by playing fps games with such small screens. what can any game do about that. i played RO for years with a 17'' screen, i never complained.

17 is bigger than 14 and 15, and there is no problem with fps games, just pixelhunting ones, try to play now in a 14 and you WILL complain. this at least will give them a chance to perform well in mid-range firefights (those perceived as long range in RO:OST)

i don't know why you get so heated up, i never even mentioned those games. i tried them, and found that they were horrible, impossible to use and unrealistic.

finally someone who think that, we are minority in this forum who share this opinion though

 

[Das Bose]

Ramm said that they did some investigation regarding the FOV, and they came to a conclusion that everything is approx. two times smaller in game on a 19" screen than it is in real life. That's why they introduced the zoom while you're pressing the breathing button.

Yup, I just spent the last few minutes aiming down the sights of a rifle and it didn't zoom in. If the characters are represented 2 x too small then that may or may not need fixing ( we have all managed with it so far ) but it certainly doesn't need half-fixing with aim zoom.

Of course this is just my opinion.

 

[worluk]

Yup, I just spent the last few minutes aiming down the sights of a rifle and it didn't zoom in. If the characters are represented 2 x too small then that may or may not need fixing ( we have all managed with it so far ) but it certainly doesn't need half-fixing with aim zoom.

Of course this is just my opinion.

you failed to see the point of the FOV discussion. As i mentioned earlier there are 3 requirements which a game would like to fullfill (if there are more, let me know ), neither the static nor the FOV change manages to implement all 3. It's down to a matter of taste and what you think weighs heavier realism wise.
Tbh. considering it doesnt change much, since TWI made up their mind for the one or the other, you could as well argue about which uniform you think looks better.

finally someone who think that, we are minority in this forum who share this opinion though

Im quite certain there are more here that think similar, not much need to bash other games on the RO forums though

 

[Erich]

Who said aim-zoom would increase engagement distance? In order to do that you would have to really increase the size of the map and the draw distance. Not to mention that it is alot harder to shoot accurately at distance while under stress. For this point alone I prefered no aim-zoom. Because it made shooting at a distance more difficult than most games, it helped to make combat seem more realistic by voiding out some of the advantages that video games giver every shooter. The fact of the matter is, it should be hard hitting a moving target at 200 or more meters, esp. with a bolt action, and I feel aim-zoom will ruin this.

 

[Flanker15]

you failed to see the point of the FOV discussion. As i mentioned earlier there are 3 requirements which a game would like to fullfill (if there are more, let me know ), neither the static nor the FOV change manages to implement all 3. It's down to a matter of taste and what you think weighs heavier realism wise.

Played some RO and some ARMA to look at the aim zoom effect.
I've decided that I'd rather have the limited FOV handicap than the zoom immersion break eg: immersion over difficulty.
I've played fine for years with it in RO and I've not had a problem yet but zoom in any way just looks so unrealistic almost arcadish (the sprint zoom too). Constant FOV in RO just looked so much more immersive than zooming in and out in ARMA.
At least make it not appear in the full realisim servers.

 

[Fedorov]

At least make it not appear in the full realisim servers.

having CORRECT perception is MORE realistic, so if anything it should be the other way around, as I want to play with the more realistic setting possible which includes correct FOV

 

[Zetsumei]

17 is bigger than 14 and 15, and there is no problem with fps games, just pixelhunting ones, try to play now in a 14 and you WILL complain. this at least will give them a chance to perform well in mid-range firefights (those perceived as long range in RO:OST)

You do know that although 20% of the steam users play at 1024x768 they probably cannot play UE3 that well. As they most likely fall into the same group with worse videocards.

Another 20% play at 1280xXXX, And a whopping 60% play at a resolution above that.

A fov zoom stage wont help people with a smaller monitor, if the fov and changing depending on resolution with the current aim system. Then 19" monitors see everything at real scale and 14 inchers see everything smaller than in reality and 30" see everything bigger than in reality. Which is why i put a suggestion in ideas and suggestions thread to base it upon resolution.

It pushes the effective range of players further which is a design option but doenst make things more fair or less fair unless fov is scaled on monitor size. Which actually could be done even without a zoom function.

Seeing things 1:1 size is more realistic. Getting different zoom stages is not more realistic. Inability to use your pheriphial view in the distance is not more realistic. Its a balance, and a preference. Weve had this discussion countless times before and its probably not going to change anyway.

 

[Fedorov]

You do know that although 20% of the steam users play at 1024x768 they probably cannot play UE3 that well. As they most likely fall into the same group with worse videocards.

Another 20% play at 1280xXXX, And a whopping 60% play at a resolution above that.

A fov zoom stage wont help people with a smaller monitor, if the fov and changing depending on resolution with the current aim system. Then 19" monitors see everything at real scale and 14 inchers see everything smaller than in reality and 30" see everything bigger than in reality.

It pushes the range of the game further which is a design option but doenst make things more fair or less fair unless fov is scaled on monitor size. Which actually could be done even without a zoom function.

it will never be fair for them, but at least they'll be able to play decently on the most common combat ranges

 

[Das Bose]

you failed to see the point of the FOV discussion. As i mentioned earlier there are 3 requirements which a game would like to fullfill (if there are more, let me know ), neither the static nor the FOV change manages to implement all 3. It's down to a matter of taste and what you think weighs heavier realism wise.
Tbh. considering it doesnt change much, since TWI made up their mind for the one or the other, you could as well argue about which uniform you think looks better.



Im quite certain there are more here that think similar, not much need to bash other games on the RO forums though

I'm not arguing and I didn't fail to see any points. I simply don't like the idea of aim zoom. This isn't because I am a CS kiddie, cod whore e.t.c but simply personal preference. I couldn't care less about uniforms but aim zoom is something I really don't like.

As I have said, I hope it is restricted to the relaxed realism servers.

 

[Fedorov]

As I have said, I hope it is restricted to the relaxed realism servers.

As I have said, I hope it is the other way around (if its optional)

 

[Das Bose]

As I have said, I hope it is the other way around (if its optional)

Yes, you like the idea of zooming in and I don't, it's personal preference and none of us have missed any points

 

[Fedorov]

Yes, you like the idea of zooming in and I don't, it's personal preference and none of us have missed any points

yes, so:

having CORRECT perception is MORE realistic, so if anything it should be the other way around, as I want to play with the more realistic setting possible which includes correct FOV

which means that the most realistic option should include it, as in real life you are not seeing enemies at 100m that look like they 200m, thats unrealistic and what makes you unnecesarily stick your nose to the monitor to see it more accurately and there you have your zoom anyway, the one you do with your back

 

[Das Bose]

yes, so:



which means that the most realistic option should include it, as in real life you are not seeing enemies at 100m that look like they 200m, thats unrealistic and what makes you unnecesarily stick your nose to the monitor to see it more accurately and there you have your zoom anyway, the one you do with your back

Yeah I can see your point but for me it will be very unrealistic to be interacting with the game world with 'normal' vision and then to have it unrealistically zoom in when I aim down the sights ( scoped weapons/binoculars e.t.c are obviously going to do this ) and then zoom out again when I decide to move or fire from the hip.

I am not suggesting my preference is more correct than your's or anyone else's either, just that I would prefer no zoom with iron sights.

Edit: Of course I am basing my opinion on what I have seen so far in the various video clips floating around and I appreciate things might look entirely different upon release

 

[Mormegil]

Because when you look over the sights of a weapon it does not zoom in. Sorry, how is zooming in creating a more realistic engagement distance? The players are still going to be the same distance from each other, just that each player will now have an invisible scope on their weapons.

Have you read the posts explaining why the zoom is in?

It's not realistic to be zoomed out when not looking down your sights in real life either.

So from your perspective (no pun intended), we should ALWAYS be zoomed in. But then it's not realistic to have no peripheral vision either.

So the most realistic thing to do is to REQUIRE everyone to have a 3 monitor setup, so it can be zoomed in with peripheral vision. But that's not very realistic to expect TW to have that as a hardware requirement.

 

[Fedorov]

game world with 'normal' vision and then to have it unrealistically zoom in when I aim down the sights

its unrealistically zoomed out by default, what you see once you zoom in is what you would really see

your no-FOV correction option will leave no room for showing how things are really seen, in reality someone who can kill you at 200m, wont be able to do so in Game because you'll look like you are at 400m, so the general flow and engagements of the battle will differ from real life already because of that

 

[Das Bose]

Have you read the posts explaining why the zoom is in?

Yes.

It's not realistic to be zoomed out when not looking down your sights in real life either.

So from your perspective (no pun intended), we should ALWAYS be zoomed in. But then it's not realistic to have no peripheral vision either.

So the most realistic thing to do is to REQUIRE everyone to have a 3 monitor setup, so it can be zoomed in with peripheral vision. But that's not very realistic to expect TW to have that as a hardware requirement.

No we should not always be zoomed in, you are the only one who has said that. We should have the same view looking over the sights as we do when we are not unless we are using a scoped weapon because that is how reality works for all of us.

Aim-zoom, to me, is not realistic and will hurt immersion.

Anyway I have made it quite clear that I don't like the idea of aim-zoom from the clips I have seen thus far so I see no point in continuing to repeat myself.

 

[Fedorov]

Aim-zoom, to me, is not realistic and will hurt immersion.

is less realistic to not have it, you are making too much of a deal just because of the zoom-effect itself that you asociate with other games