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How Does the community feel about officially adding THE BRUTE?

I hate the Brute. Also, on lower difficulties, with new players, it would cause a LOT of frustration. Every other Zed has quite a few ways to be taken down. This allows for diverse strategies from players, from kiting to camping. A newbie's natural instinct is to group together and camp in a corridor. The Brute utterly destroys this concept, and if the only strategy they can think of doesn't work, then newbies are going to rage.

I think it would hurt the playerbase considerably. Sure, HOE players are cool and elite and whatever other nonsense they tell themselves, but NEW PLAYERS are just as important. Every time I have joined a Brute server on Normal/Hard, people rage as soon as one breaks up the team.

The Shiver on the other hand IS AMAZING. Lets add that one yeah? I'm all for new zed types, I don't agree with zed types that limit strategies. Just because YOU find something boring, doesn't mean the rest of us do.
 
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It would need some serious tweaks if it were to be implemented. It is quite the siege breaking specimen, similar to what the fleshpound does to camping groups. It would need to have some safe way to be to killed. As it is now the only way to kill it cleanly is when it's already up in your face about to launch you 50m back. Comes too often for a demo to be consistently smoking up the place to deal with them- maybe make them weak to fire - and holy moly, people might have a legit reason to start using firebug then oO. The knock back should be reduced too imo.
 
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Brute . . . idk. The community seems to be really divided on it. He could probably use some re-purposing and some extra polish to make him fit in more smoothly.

Shiver; I say he would make a great addition to the horde. However he has some bugs that would need to be fixed. Most notably is him teleporting to places he gets stuck and players can't kill/reach him. He would probably need a auto teleport/kill function or something if he can't find a valid pathnode to a player in x amount of time.
 
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I hate the Brute. Also, on lower difficulties, with new players, it would cause a LOT of frustration. Every other Zed has quite a few ways to be taken down. This allows for diverse strategies from players, from kiting to camping. A newbie's natural instinct is to group together and camp in a corridor. The Brute utterly destroys this concept, and if the only strategy they can think of doesn't work, then newbies are going to rage.

I think it would hurt the playerbase considerably. Sure, HOE players are cool and elite and whatever other nonsense they tell themselves, but NEW PLAYERS are just as important. Every time I have joined a Brute server on Normal/Hard, people rage as soon as one breaks up the team.

The Shiver on the other hand IS AMAZING. Lets add that one yeah? I'm all for new zed types, I don't agree with zed types that limit strategies. Just because YOU find something boring, doesn't mean the rest of us do.

This is all just tossing it out and getting feed back. Not a personal attack on any part of the community. The devs read our threads. Getting opinions on specific ideas or questions helps them and the community as a whole.

I feel like i am the only veteran player making suggestions in DEFENSE of new players and fun for all involved. I don't include myself in the ELITE because quite frankly I am not. I just have a(master) mind :D that I like to use when going about my business in work or play.
 
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I, like many others apparently, do not like the Brute either. Imo, it is not a balanced specimen at ALL. Slappy already pointed out most, if not all, the reasons why it is not that great of a specimen. I'm ok with it being whitelisted though, but it should definitely stay as an optional specimen

The Shiver is absolutely amazing though, and just like FluX said: I would GLADLY want it added asap if it got a health change (Health between Clot and Gorefast with scaling similar to Gorefast or something?), and if its bugs were fixed.

TL;DR
Brute = No please!
Shiver = Yes please!
 
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I don't mean to derail the thread, but personally, I'd like two other specimens added instead. One the size of a gorefast and with about the same amount of HP, which could outrun even medics and berserkers. Its main attack would be something like strangling the player (or in some other way crippling them for a short period of time). That attack would only be possible to dodge if you timed it just right. That would put the fear back into soloing berserkers and also make zerking a lot more varied and fun in my opinion. It could also make the Firebug more useful in games if that zed would take more damage from fire and could be somewhat slowed down by it.

The second would be a Husk-like zed equipped with an axe or similar melee weapon and extra headshot resistance (but definitely not more HP than somewhere in between a Siren and a Husk). If he also could damage several players within his attack range with the same swing of the axe it could be quite disconcerting even for a team of players. As previously stated he wouldn't have too much HP as it could potentially be too difficult if he popped up at the same time as FPs and Scrakes. Damage similar to a gorefast's double swing perhaps, but with a lower attack rate?

That's at least what I've been contemplating on and off for about year or so now. It would be two kinds of zeds that would hopefully increase the importance of commandos and firebugs, maybe even demos. But as long as they aren't too strong it wouldn't need to alter the original gameplay too much. You could also make some zeds alternate between waves, you don't necessarily need to have Sirens, Scrakes, FPs, the strangling zed and the axe zed all during the same wave, you could have a predefined set of combinations that are randomly picked from wave 5/6 to 9 (e.g. "replace Sirens with axe-wielding zeds on wave 7") so that you never quite know what to expect. Oh well, enough ranting on my part, please share your reactions if you will. It would be a lot of work, but it's just a thought you know?
 
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Also how are FB's effective? I didn't know that they were, do they slow him down or do more damage or something?
Brute takes like 20-40% extra fire damage/goes even slower (think 30%?) when 'crisping', to answer your question.

I do agree that Brute, if made official, DEFINITELY needs a few changes. Less knockback, easier to 'rage' to get that metal arm down, slightly less health to help balance the last suggestion, and definitely put him on the rare side of Husks and Sirens (if not Scrakes and Fleshpounds).

As for Shiver, wouldn't they more or less make the Stalker obsolete at this point? Not that I don't disagree that it's not a cool specimen, but while it's got a cool gimmick of it's own it's role somewhat overlaps with Stalkers (surprise attacks without trashkillers)
 
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Brute takes like 20-40% extra fire damage/goes even slower (think 30%?) when 'crisping', to answer your question.

I do agree that Brute, if made official, DEFINITELY needs a few changes. Less knockback, easier to 'rage' to get that metal arm down, slightly less health to help balance the last suggestion, and definitely put him on the rare side of Husks and Sirens (if not Scrakes and Fleshpounds).

As for Shiver, wouldn't they more or less make the Stalker obsolete at this point? Not that I don't disagree that it's not a cool specimen, but while it's got a cool gimmick of it's own it's role somewhat overlaps with Stalkers (surprise attacks without trashkillers)

the shiver isnt "unvisible"
 
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I, like many others apparently, do not like the Brute either. Imo, it is not a balanced specimen at ALL. Slappy already pointed out most, if not all, the reasons why it is not that great of a specimen. I'm ok with it being whitelisted though, but it should definitely stay as an optional specimen

The Shiver is absolutely amazing though, and just like FluX said: I would GLADLY want it added asap if it got a health change (Health between Clot and Gorefast with scaling similar to Gorefast or something?), and if its bugs were fixed.

TL;DR
Brute = No please!
Shiver = Yes please!
Same here.
 
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Brute takes like 20-40% extra fire damage/goes even slower (think 30%?) when 'crisping', to answer your question.

I do agree that Brute, if made official, DEFINITELY needs a few changes. Less knockback, easier to 'rage' to get that metal arm down, slightly less health to help balance the last suggestion, and definitely put him on the rare side of Husks and Sirens (if not Scrakes and Fleshpounds).

Thanks for the info, yo.

Also about the Brute's arm... To fit the KF aesthetic a little, I think he needs some visual changes. The ugly-*** face and muscular bloodied body are great so far, but he needs some additions. Look at the husk and the fleshpound and the details on them. They're like, partially cybernetic. The Brute could do with the same treatment, maybe his arm could actually be a shield.
 
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The Shiver seems to be the favorite to add, and I have to agree. That is with perhaps a few changes. Fixing any bugs is important, and personally I would like it if the Shiver would teleport randomly when ever attacked(a small delay) to cause more annoyance and give it a bit more flavor. Maybe as tough as a gorefast, but that might be a bit too much. When hit it can teleport to the side or back, but otherwise moves towards the player. Maybe have it try and move to the side if possible(even teleport there). Over all I am just offering a few suggestion off the top of my head, I have not followed the development. Still as is it might be an interesting addition.
 
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Good to see a healthy debate about our fist little "pet" project on Killing Floor. If I may add to the conversation that I agree on most of the points given in this discussion. We allready been talking to the dev's, and im looking into adding consmetic changes that will take it to the next level.

Creating zeds is a difficult process, as you always want to put your "stamp" on it. Just like IJC did with their weapons.

Our second zed, the Shiver, has the problem it gets stuck here and there. Now we tested it on stock maps, and didnt come across any of those problems. It seems the custom maps usually get into trouble due to certain blockingvolumes.

In their current state I dont see the two beeing added to the game officially, and neither does TWI. So do not worry about the 2 beeing added in the future.

We also have 2 other KF-style zeds roaming the WPC 3 servers atm, but I dont see them beeing a worthy addition too.

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bloat.jpg


The "Shafter"
Height : Patty
Weapon : One armed non-working FP mallet
Speed : Patty

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disgust.jpg


The "GoreShank"
Height : Scrake
Weapon : Dual wielding gorefast blades (with special scissor attackmove)
Speed : Scrake
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These are more created for variety, and to stay within the style of KF. Im also working on a re-mapped UV model of a Clot with a Gorefast skin that pukes blood everywere. (the GF skin on a clot looks devilish haha) These models are made to use all stock textures and sounds so only a new animation files has to be created, keeping the mutator files really small.

Its fun creating these zeds, but as they are now...I don't see a future for them in the stock game. Who knows, maybe someday they will get a special place in KF. :)
 
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All this talk of balancing and miscellaneous raging at the new update made me think. The core of most arguments is that the game will become too easy. All that could change by simply adding the brute. That monster is a serious buzz killer!! No more kiting! Head shots are difficult. Camps can be broken into easily. Displaces player position. The brute is tough, hits hard , fast(it will rage asap) and has enough sense to protect its head while moving! The only zed that has a higher "kill this &^%# right now!" level is a siren. Tell me fellow zed slayers would this be enough to bring back the ouch factor in kf?

Brute link is here: http://www.wolfpackclan.com/modules/newbbex/953-18-the-brute-vfinal.html

The game does need another "Kill it or we're all screwed" monster. After lots of experience the scrakes and fleshpounds lose the fear factor. The only monsters to maintain their priority target status is the husk and siren, and husk is only a priority target if it has line of sight.

I've played with the brute back when it was new-ish. If TWI slapped it with some games industry polish, it could really turn the tides of the "ho hum" biotics lab snore fests that everyone is in love with.
 
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No need that sh*t Brute and Shiver and not need other IJC weapon ! -.- ONLY need Tripwire created zed and weapon ! Like Husk and Magnum , Combat Shotgun..etc

This Brute and Shiver is not enough good for KF ! Tripwire zeds is better 100x and IJC weapon is bad too All Tripwire created Weapon is much better !!!!!
 
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