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How Does the community feel about officially adding THE BRUTE?

First, I want to say that I'll talk only about level 6 players playing on HoE difficulty. Because I know some level 6 players, who are playing with Brute on Normal/Hard and saying Brute is quite balanced. That isn't a Brute balanced, but players overpowered for that difficulty. So I'd recommend for such players to turn off Brute and switch to HoE. And when vanilla HoE will seem too easy, only then try the Brute.

Many say Brute is designed to weaken Sharpshooter. But he doesn't. Actually Shaprie with xbow is the second best Brute-killer after Support with HSg. You just need to stand behind a crouched person, who rages a Brute. Then wait until Brutes charges to him and raises his arms to make a hit. Xbow shot in uncovered head = Brute dead. Yes, it requires skill, need some time to master, but it is one of the best Brute-killing techniques. It is also very exciting, because requires much more skill and takes more action than killing Scrakes. So I'm absolutely fine with it.

But the absolutely best way to kill a Brute is to play as Support Spec., sit down and shoot with Hunting Shotgun in his balls. Two shots from moderate distance = Brute dead. Even in vanilla game Support seems slightly overpowered for me, but with Brute it becomes the main perk to survive. If you have no 2 supports facing in every direction (or at least very skilled 1sup+1ss), you'll mostly be wiped in later waves. There are 7 perks in a game, but Brute forces to choose only between ss and sup for at least 4-5 players from 6.

What I can't understand, is why devs can spend so much time to create awesome visual models, animations and program AI, but can't find an extra couple of hours for adjusting some variables/code lines to make the final product balanced? Sometimes I have feeling that TWI are testing the game on beginner mode with GOD mode on. WPC please confess, are you doing the same? ;)

OK, enough whining, let's move out to the real facts (taken from the source code, please correct me if I made mistakes somewhere) :
  • 6p HoE Brute's head has 1771hp
  • >90% of the time head is covered
  • While shooting covered head, Brute is taking only 10%, but this damage is taking by the body, not the head. It's impossible to deal any damage to the covered head.
  • You don't check for KFWeaponDamageType.bCheckForHeadShots, so blocked head damage reduction is applying also on those weapons, which can't make headshots (explosives, flames). For example, if you hit Brute with LAW rocket in the balls, you'll make ~1500 damage (level 6 demo), but if you shoot his metal arm, your damage will be only ~300. Is it a bug or some kind of very silly pervert "feature"?
  • Brute has 25% damage resistance against any melee weapon, even when his head is uncovered.
  • Brute can't be stunned.
  • Brute is slowed down only by 15% when burning.
  • Are you guys insane?

My first suggestion is to completely remove any damage resistance for damage types, which can't do headshots (bCheckForHeadShots=false): all explosives and fire damage.

Second, slow down Brute while burning, because current 15% is next to nothing.

There are alternatives for the other suggestions.

Damage reduction for blocked headshots
a) Leave the same value (90%), but then damage the head, not the body;
b) or still hit the body, but lower reduction value (to 50-70%).

Decapitaion
a) Lower head's health (down to Husk's head), so when Brute's head is uncovered, he can be decapitated by 1 LAR headshot made by SS, off-perk xbow or Commado's SCAR precise burst;
b) or make Brute stunnable. Because Brute's head blocked most of the time, there will be only a few stunning techniques: LAW, Pipes and Melee backstab.

Berserker
1. Raise melee damage resistance from 25% to 50% when blocking (all damage, not only when hitting the arm)
2. Remove damage resistance when Brute is not blocking.
Raising melee resistance will make impossible to backstab body-stun (if stunning will be enabled), but also will allow to master frontal Axe head-hits when Brute's arms are open.
 
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Poosh my man that is exactly the kind of feedback and suggestions that was needed during the Brute's development.

In regards to testing, I play predominately on HARD, and face the Brute down with a lvl3-5 sharpie with a LAR. But then it's also a modded server with some other very nasty zeds (shiver that seems to always go for me when I need to shoot something important and some other custom zeds that are far nastier than the Brute.) Maybe I'll fire up the whitelisted mutator and see how I fair but tbh I doubt it'll make much difference to me as I'm already accustomed to facing the Brute.

But thanks for the feedback, I'll go kick Benji from what ever perversion has got his attention and see what he says.
 
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very stiff stuff there poosh, but it does make sense. The only gripe I have, is solo play. Its truely the only thing I have against the brute, is how can a perso counter the brute in slow? Medic, off perk weapon. Firebug, fire stuff. Support, pump the brute really hard. Commando, good luck. Sharpy, goodluck. Zerk, hit and run? And demolitions, boom boom boom?
 
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Since you guys are so nice in giving us the feedback we need to get this done propper, ill give you a preview of the Brutes progress. Now keep in mind, its far from done in this stage. I want to make his shiny shorts a bit more filthy and his envelopes are far from done.

NewBrute.jpg


At least he has pants now eh? lol

I gave him more of a gut, as washed out boxing champs must drink their sorrows away lol. The metal on the arms resembles more the tripwire look, so it might fit in a bit more.

Suggestions are welcome, as always. :)
 
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Incoming Criticism Warning
hate to say it but the legs are mighty disproportionate...and the arm guards seem to just be decoration.. Maybe some form of crude boxing glove... a cestus maybe?

Thats the angle of the render m8 hehe. The legs are same thinkness and height.

I was thinking of boxinggloves, but it would prob stand out too much comparred to the other zeds. A steel variant might look the part, but ill need to experiment with that.
 
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Thats the angle of the render m8 hehe. The legs are same thinkness and height.

I was thinking of boxinggloves, but it would prob stand out too much comparred to the other zeds. A steel variant might look the part, but ill need to experiment with that.
Why not have boxing gloves where his hand has grown through a little (mutated)? I don't mean claws but something to show the mutation. I personally think he has been a tad too fat but it's looking better for the theme of KF and the backrgound of the Brute.
 
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Maybe the angle makes him look fatter or something, its not that bad when panning around him in 3ds max.

tbh I don't even know if ill ever put this ingame. Atm I just like fiddeling with 3ds max again. As a modder I can only do so much to come close to the TWI KF style. If people still feel it doesnt fit within the KF style, im going to leave the project as is...cous I can only do so much. Im not a professional gamedesigner/animator, I design websites for a living lol.

The Brute was always a project like "Lets see if we can build a model from scratch and get it in the game"(as mutator). We succeeded, and it even got whitelisted.

I didnt expect anything from the community, love nor hatred towards the Brute. Though somehow people still have discussions about him.

In the end, its just a Zed mutator...and as is...no one should worry about it ever getting in the game officially.
 
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They have sat arround the table for it yes. And I got a bunch of feedback from them. The current mutator will never be added officially. If we make a new version, then maybe...but as I said, im not even sure if ill be finishing this model. It all depends on interest really. And this thread highlights allot of good points were we can work on, but also raises the question if the Brute or any other modded zed should be added at all.

4 hours of work on the Brute is 4 hours not designing a website for pay. Then again its allot of fun talking to the animators of TWI and discussing options on how to maybe add it in the future.

As I said, if this is proves too much work...im going to have to let it go unfortunatly. :)
 
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@Hemi I think that screenshot looks great. I could easily see something looking like this getting added if the stats get worked on to make it a balanced enemy and it feels right aesthetically. It's a great concept. As far as the shackles go that's a tough one. Maybe what someone else said about having the gloves but his hands have mutated and pushed through them leaving very little left of the gloves to see. Dirtier shorts will help it match other KF zeds as you said already. Maybe if his charging shield arm was enlarged, looking kind of cancer ridden and engorged and perhaps slightly regrown into part of his chest would be a good look? I'm just spittin ideas out here, this is your pet and clearly you have the best notion of what it should turn out like but I think you should continue work on it and get that baby in the game.
 
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Looks pretty sweet actually, obviously without seeing him in KF light its hard to judge, but from the look there I think 1 thing you may need to work on is making him a bit paler. The regular specimens, even Kevin, have a kind of drab, pale complexion.

Ofc the Shorts, which did make me LoL, need to be tattered up to hell, Husk or Patty like :)

But his meatyness if pretty sweet.
 
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Indeed. Folk tend to forget that modders also like to have a good time creating the mods, and sometimes they even DEMAND stuff from us. Good luck with that approach...since we don't have deadlines and such. To me its like playing a game and having fun with it. Push us into creating the mods and youll only drive us away from the project.

We don't get money for the work we do, just keep that in mind the next time you DEMAND a fix.

(this isnt relevant to your posts vegetasasuke0 :) , or any of the ones that actually were constructive in this thread)
 
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