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Defend the area on pub servers

beermattuk

Member
Oct 30, 2012
18
1
Pretty much every time we have a "defend the area" call, there's at least 2 (sometimes 3 or more) imbiciles stood just outside the area getting all the kills while the people inside have to feed off the scraps.

Do you think this is because of?:
A/ Pure selfishness. They know you have to stand in the area, but they also know that by venturing just out of the border they're going to get more kills than the people who stand within it.
B/ Ignorance - they don't realise that you have to stand in it.


The game is supposed to be about beating the game using teamwork not beating each other (I like how they try to discourage this by removing the leaderboard at the end of the game since kf1 and replacing it with more broad stats), but unfortunately some people still seem to think it's a competition with each other. Also even if they don't think it's a competition, they know that getting more kills = better weapons for yourself, or at least better weapons earlier on.

So it's feasible that it is out of selfishness and disregard for other people. But I also wonder if it's because they're unaware. I didn't realise it at first.... although it only took me something like 2 or 3 games to work it out.


Either way, any suggestions on what the game can do to try to discourage it?

I like the "defend the area" thing because it encourages people to group together, and it forces you to explore other parts of the map and defend places you maybe normally wouldn't and might be more difficult to defend; and of course you get extra money :) But it does ruin it that I'm stood in the middle with very little to shoot at (or even worse if you're zerker!), meanwhile the idiots on the outside are getting all the kills and money.


I would suggest first of all to make it more obvious - like a big red flashey border on their monitor with some red text somewhere saying "get back in the defensive area". I know there are some situations the whole team might decide not to defend it because it's too difficult to hold, so maybe the warning should only activate if 1 or 2 other team members are already in.

And secondly if the area is successfully defended, the total earnings/dosh you could get from it is divided by the percentage of time each INDIVIDUAL is stood in the area. So say for example your reward is £350 (I haven't got the KF currency symbol on my keyboard!), people stood outside 100% of the time get absolutely zero, people stood in it for 70% of the round get £245 (350/70*100), people stood in it all the time get the full £350, etc. (If it was up to me the people stood outside should actually get a penalty and earn less during that round than they normally would! But some might consider that overly harsh.)


Any other ideas welcome, but I really think it needs something. It's a potentially really good aspect of the game but ruined by certain people.
 
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I always give areas maybe 30 seconds before giving up if others are not staying in
Cash boost isnt that great and if you stand by not getting kills you lose out on more than the area will give you
dosh vault amount of pitiful
class exp is a drop in the bucket

And if I am playing berserker for what ever reason its just not appealing at all and take off anyways
 
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Both cases. Part of players have wrong temper for things, those persons don't know Killing Floor as a team game. Or for a fact, never experienced the original on highest difficulty, I'll guess and say they come from much more generic, modern games from the likes of Fortnite, Overwatch. Furthermore they don't have a sense for tasking, e.g. play different roles. Securing escape route, utilizing proper zed time/healing, scouting for ammo to refill gun for a friend (100% rare)...

And Stand Your Ground objectives, as currently, don't penalize jumpers for going away - warning message will serve the purpose, SYG anyways sucks for a fun challenge, could've been fun-proved
 
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It's a nice optional feature, but if players don't feel the reward (dosh and vault xp) are worth it that's their choice.

In later waves it usually just seems like a death trap, especially in endless mode above wave 25 so I just use the 'negative' voice command as soon as the game prompts the team to go to the area to let my team know I am not going.

When people do stay in the area it can be a fun time, but again, totally optional. I'm all for variety and this is a subtle thing that players can take or leave as they choose. It would be cool if TWI found other things along these lines to add into the mix.
 
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Tony;n2325685 said:
If they get all the money + reward + most of the kills, how are they idiots then? You're the idiot for doing the dirty job haha.

Haha I've been wondering that myself! But as I say it's supposed to be a team game, you're not supposed to be selfishly collecting all the rewards, you're supposed to be working together as a team.

This reminds me of the idiots that use an M79 to kill a single crawler when things get slow. Yes it might be good for their stats, and on lower difficulties maybe marginally profitable (I haven't checked), but the team would be much better off if they left it for the swat/commando take care of.
 
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Some interesting replies, so far the consensus seems to be that it's not a particularly rewarding feature so some people don't bother.

What gets to me though is that we're not talking about players on the other side of the map... they're only a few yards outside the area. It's not like they've chosen not to defend it, but that they are standing just outside where they can steal kills.

Which is still a pretty sh***y tactic even when you're not defending the area. Yes if you sneak a few yards ahead of the rest of the group you can get more kills, but then the person behind you just has to sneak a few yards in front of you, so you sneak a few yards in front of them, then they sneak a few yards in front of you again and so on and so on until everyone's scattered around the map in a raggedy mess, and once you get to that point it isn't long before everybody starts dying off one by one.

But on the none-defending waves, the sneakers tend to find themselves having to reposition to keep up with the group. They are kind of forced to stop sneaking of by everybody else's positioning. Whereas on DtA waves, the good guys with the team ethic just end up pinned back and left out of the action.

I might be wrong here but I thought you can get something like 400 cash for keeping it intact? Each! In early waves that's a significant amount. That's a difference between having being able to buy your AA12/railgun/RPG/etc in one round or having to wait until the next. That could be the difference between everyone being wiped out by a FP or surviving!


I like infntnub's suggestion of using the 'NEGATIVE' command, I sometimes do that myself in later waves when it seems like a death trap, and sometimes use "AFFIRMATIVE" in the earlier rounds when it seems like a good idea as we're trying to earn money. Maybe there should be a voting system!

Or better still, I'm increasingly liking the sound of my suggestion to basically split the profits based on time in the area. So the people selfishly standing 3 yards outside the area to steal kills end up with less money than the team players holding it. That way if they don't care for the feature then by all means don't, but it would be fairer to the people who do.
 
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Look dude. Here's a serious answer for you. You have to keep the zeds OUT, not fight them IN. You prob noticed area is flashing red when a few zeds are in the marked area. If everybody is inside - it's gonna be happening all the time. On higher difficulties you can't instantly kill all ZED the game is throwing at you. You have to do some ZED flow management. For example, yesterday I kited a bunch of zeds (including 5 scrakes) around that wall on Nuke, just so my team that was kiting zeds while retreating down the road would get more distance.

P.S. I defend maybe like 20% areas on sui and 5% on hoe. Thing is, they aren't worth the risk. Hell, even Kevlar you lose that you otherwise wouldn't lose makes defending those shitty areas pointless! Not to mention possible deaths.
 
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Tony;n2325798 said:
You have to keep the zeds OUT, not fight them IN. You prob noticed area is flashing red when a few zeds are in the marked area. If everybody is inside - it's gonna be happening all the time.

This is 100% correct and I see it a lot as well when the team actually does defend.

It's always best to have 1 or 2 guys just outside of the zone preventing any entry.

A Zerk or Firebug really do well for this to control the crowds. When the entire team tries to stay in the zone it turns into a mess usually.
 
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So I had a bit of an issue last night and it made me think of this thread.

Another big reason people don't like to stay in the area -> You.Can't.Trust.Randoms

I was holding one side of an area on Nuke/Suicidal last night, thinking everything was swell.

Nothing was getting in etc.

Next thing I know, me and the guy/gal next to me are cut down by 2 angry Scrakes the rest of our team raged and didn't manage to put down in a timely fashion.

Should I be watching over my shoulder? Yeah. Should teammates not be raging large zeds they aren't capable of putting down for the count? Yeah. :)

Just another variable that leads players to just skip it (probably).
 
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Yeah it's when you're a berzerker pinned to the area, on wave 2, it has good visibility, while a demo and sharpy are running around outside.... that's when it starts to wind you up a bit!

Most of the DtA locations have quite good visibility so you can shoot things outside the area while still stood in it.

But it's a good point yes I agree it's often better tactics to have a couple on the outside. It can easily turn into a bit of a petty scrap over who takes that role tho!

Infnthub's latest point - couldn't that happen anywhere though? Even in regular positions, most places have at least one entry point so you're susceptible to randoms screwing things up. Although you wouldn't have that problem (Scrakes) on the earlier waves - going back to your earlier post, even more so since this discussion I've been skipping ("NEGATIVE") the DtA on later stages of the game....

Wave 4 or below (10 wave game) is usually safe to defend, and the amount of dosh you get is very significant and can lead to you getting a T3/4 weapon earlier than you usually would. Whereas wave 5 and above it starts to get more risky, armour cost is more of an issue, and people are usually already getting towards their final loadouts so money isn't as critical/significant.
 
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Stand Your Ground placement is also a key factor. Areas that are outdoors are much safer to defend due to sight lines, while indoors you can end up with a group of big zeds popping in right around the corner and forcing you out. The stupid part is that some areas that pop up effectively box you in to screw you over should you try to defend it.
 
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