Coffee009;n2318610 said:
but then again it did require skill to survive solo hoe, before the whole rebalance that made it more and more easy
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We want to see your HoE victories!
- Thread starter Kittenmittens
- Start date
but then again it did require skill to survive solo hoe, before the whole rebalance that made it more and more easy
Dr. Lethal;n2318607 said:
Skins in general, but you get the point, yes.
As far as TWI- I wouldn't say they've proven reliable, but i've bought skins and keys and shown my support because as much as I criticize KF2, it's a good game- and one that I enjoy. TWI is one of the better developers in terms of trying to appease their userbase, and I think that's a good thing. They didn't have to come out with a vault system and so many ways to give users so many free items- but they did. It's just that their decisions typically arn't the greatest.
I for one am not keen on the upcoming update. The Railgun is already OP and making a new gun that is even stronger seems like a terrible idea. The weapon upgrade system has a high potential to be absolutely disasterous for balance, and while i'm perfectly ok with zeds shooting missles and lasers, I must frown upon the idea of a zed that incaps players, preventing them from moving. Taking control away from a player is usually a very cheesy mechanic that most people do not enjoy. Furthermore, I'm worried that these edar zeds whom are not killed by headhots punish accuracy and reward bodyshot spam. If you couple that with thinks like the husk cannon having what is essentially unlimited ammo (since you can left click it from wave start to wave end without fear of running out) this may turn kf2 into a cancerous spamfest. That's not appealing to me in the slightest. I will wait and see how the update shakes out- but right now things are looking grim. There are a number of very experienced players with a lot of purchased cosmetics and thousands of hours in the game each ready to jump ship if it turns out as bad as they expect it to. I think TWI needs to tread very carefully with this update and make sure it's a home run- and I think it's possible to do just that- but I don't expect it to be easy given what they've announced so far.
Dr. Lethal;n2318607 said:
That was probably mine, ( https://www.reddit.com/r/killingfloo.../perk_synergy/ ) and any arguments you've seen were one or two people being a bit thick. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
When it comes down to it- play how you want- but there are a lot of people who play just to play and are either oblivious to the fact that it's a coop game and how you choose to play will affect the others on your team. For the best chance of winning, and usually the most enjoyment for all involved- how perks and players interact should be considered. Still, I more or less agree with what you've said.
Dr. Lethal;n2318607 said:
I'd actually like to see it not scale health per player like the other difficulties do. I'd also like to see the maximum number of monsters on the map at once increased from the current 32 to 48 or more. (Performance issues will start to arise around 80-100, and some maps i'd cap at 64 due to performance, but 48 should be perfectly reasonable) I also think the spawnmod (difficulty variable represented as a float between 1.0 and 0.0) should be turned down. The value for this number affects spawn intensity. It's set tot 0.75 for vanilla HoE and higher on lower difficulties. This variable affects how often spawnmanager kicks in. I would like to see it lowed substantially. The max number of monsters in each wave could also be increased and the number of larges could be increased. That's just my thoughts though. No matter how big or minor of a buff HoE gets - I'll look on a buff favorably- at the absolute minimum- i think the 10% movement speed reduction for zeds should be reverted as they're far too slow now on HoE.
Dr. Lethal;n2318607 said:
I'm not in favor blocking off the difficulty to lower level perks, especially with prestige being a thing soon. I don't really want to play on normal, hard, and sui and be bored out of my mind. I do understand the frustration with lowbie players showing up in hoe, but one or two should not prevent a team from winning. (look at the 6 firebug run, one of them was level 0.) The vote kick system (which should allow you to kick more than twice per map IMHO) does allow for some level of control over this in otherwise unmanaged pubs, and there are mods like autokicker, and RPW mod which allow for better control over what is permitted.
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LazyTiger;n2318567 said:
HoE too easy ?
use left hand for mouse right hand for keyboard then
And here is 2 more idea for you to make HoE Harder
http://upload.lsforum.net/users/publ...121231f230.png
http://upload.lsforum.net/users/publ..._10859q230.jpg
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For now, I play endless exclusively on my server with 20 random players (usually 12) with full spawn rate. The problem with hoe is that it's 50/50. Yes, you can kill pat in seconds, but he can do same thing, sometimes Hans can't even attack players, sometimes boop - and everyone is dead. Sometimes game conductor just spawn every zed in the face, and you can't do nothing about that. With full team of friends with mics etc, ofc game would be piece of cake. I wouldn't mind if there would be new difficulty, like really hard but work like weekly raid (or even seasonal), like tour of duty in tf2, with guarantee reward. I don't mind paying for it.
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basically, they need to integrate the controlled difficulty mod into the game through an easy UI in a fashion that only allows you to increase difficult over HOE (rather than lower it). leave all the other difficulties alone. you should be able to tune zed spawn rate, HP, damage, zed spawn size with simple sliders with current HOE being the lower bound up to whatever. all it is, is simple variables programmed into a the existing equations for all of those things. it is what the controlled difficulty mod does (not intuitive vs sliders for those traits)
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Kittenmittens;n2318496 said:
There is no end game. I mean, this game is not a RPG, it may be offering a pursuit of the progression in the name of perk levels, but that's just how it scales itself along each difficulty level.
In fact, we have been doing the exact same thing from day 1 of EA: we do whatever necessary to stay alive in the killing floor, ranging from doing headshots, healing others, spending no more than half second on each trash kill, pulling out the perk knife just in time (-0.2s) to block a FP slam, so on so forth.
With enough criteria met, the game should be fairly beatable, but the point is, players' choices will eventually land on or close to the best way in this regard (beating the game.) Which is to say, players will eventually play it the right way, either by simply toughen up and git gud, or by the old fashion trial and error, so there doesn't exist a real incentive to make the game easier for whoever that's not top of their game.
Speaking of gameplay improvement, I think the major improvement would be the meta, this is because I believe we already have the necessary ingredient to have some good gameplay by looking at the variety of things like weapons and Zeds as well as the depth they each have.
The meta has been kinda **** for a long time, don't get me wrong, it was ****tier when we could sit out half of the wave with a occasional nuke.
That was the time where "there exists one thing in the game we could just focus on and rely on and beat the game", and as obvious as it may sound; you don't want this, players wouldn't want that either but they can't ignore it due to its prominence.
In other words: if this, this, and that option/way means you may effectively kill a Scrake with a Katana, an AK, and a Railgun - then the last would be the preferred way. Some noises will tell you they wouldn't like to kill a Scrake with a Railgun and that should be as fine as it is; what's not fine is the game maker then decides to move Railgun out of what it is acceptably meant for, and in terms - enforcing player decision onto something else.
Practically speaking, potential nerf to the Railgun should bring players to realize why they would want to choose a Katana or an AK over a Railgun; remember that charging mechanic you see people brought up from time to time?
That means Railgun will be less of a method to readily kill Scrake with, by which point, the viability to have something that could conveniently mitigate and halt Scrake's offense and action through parry and bash respectively - as well as the features of a solid assault rifle wouldn't be overwhelmed by the dogma of an instant killshot. At this point, the meta has been improved closer towards perfection, towards quote unquote where everything is considerable.
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ckincbloodmoney;n2318501 said:
A good team can make quick work of HoE. Randoms... ehhhh not so much.
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Kittenmittens;n2318496 said:
Mentioned this in another thread, but HoE is too easy because the survivability of Medic and Berserker is insane. You aren't ever going to balance HoE until their survivability is nerfed because if you make HoE more difficult, then it's going to be too punishing/difficult for perks that are not Berserker or Medic, especially in games without either of them. In a game without a Berserker or Medic, HoE games are sufficiently challenging (and rewarding).
It's ridiculous when it's so incredibly easy for a perk to solo a 6man HoE wave, even late waves (I'll often play them to carry the whole team if I'm playing with a team that is particularly bad, especially if it's likely I'll be the last one left alive). The ability to withstand damage and solo the highest frequency spawn areas/tank massive damage from big zeds while missing parries or the ability to ignore/outrun damage you're taking from a large group of zeds while you keep your team fully healed will inevitably make any game far too easy.
It feels as if the perks were tailored for newbies as a "handicapped mode" for those who want to play higher difficulties but aren't skilled enough yet to play them. But this throws the balance completely off in the highest difficulty in the game.
I mean consider:
Berserker has- 2 health regen a second + 4 health per zed kill (if you go with Vampire, just about everyone goes with Skirmisher), 35%(?) damage resistance, +25% movement speed, 15(?)% baseline damage resistance, 20% increased damage resistance and further 20% increased resistance to bloat bile/siren screams (or +40% damage resistance with a parry) AND the ability to parry and negate most damage on just about every attack.
Is it necessary to allow a Berserker to have the option for two health regen skills with so much damage resistance? Shouldn't they be competitive with one another (merging Vampire with Dreadnaught possibly to compete with Skirmisher).
Does Berserker need the increased movement speed with "Skirmisher"? With such high damage resistance, the perk is designed to take a hit or two. But given that AND the ability to outrun all zeds + gain a whole lot of distance from them while regenerating your health seems a bit silly.
Medic has- Increased health with syringe, decreased down time with syringe, Medic grenades to heal themselves, +75% armor, +20%(?) increased movement speed AND 10% health recovery of each heal or damage resistance up to 50%.
Is the +75% armor and increased movement speed necessary? I never buy armor pre-wave 7 as it is as Medic (as I prefer to donate dosh to ensure my team gets a full loudout quicker). Rarely have I ever needed armor pre-wave 8.
And Medic's have "Adrenaline Shot" in their skills which means they can increase their movement speed with healing grenades if they need to get out of tough situations. I just don't see the purpose in Medic having a baseline increased movement speed.
A game with a decently skilled Berserker or Medic is almost a free win, which is why I'll often leave games if I see either of those perks in HoE. If I want to play something challenging, I'd rather play HoE without a borderline godmode perk that can solo wave 10 of 6 man HoE with ease.
If you play a game without either of those two perks, it's much more challenging (and a lot funner imo).
In fact, I might just start playing those perks more often, finding only teams that are doing terribly and record those games to demonstrate how stupidly easy it is to solo 6man HoE with those perks (thus making any game far too easy for everyone else). I've brought this issue up so many times, I might as well make videos to show it. There's absolutely no way you're going to balance HoE without addressing those perks.
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After giving HoE a second try a few months ago(didn't have time to get good at KF2 when it was in early access) I agree with all of this. Went from around 2 HoE achievements to unlocking all of them except a bugged endless one in 2-3 days thanks to berserker and field medic.MrRogersBestNeighbor;n2326942 said:
I found it much easier with zerk and slightly less so with medic than all of the other perks. They both have a near-unstoppable combo of damage resistance and movement speed. Even gunslinger feels easier than the remaining perks due to its movement speed bonus. Scrakes become harmless when you can backpedal and shoot them faster than they can reach you, even with 9mm or medic pistol.
That said most of the time I die while using the other perks is simply because I get body-blocked by the zeds or stuck and cornered by a single big one against a protruding part of the map's geometry. It feels like the zeds have to resort to cheap tactics to be able to do enough damage to me to kill me and I don't find difficulty that revolves around avoiding colliders instead of damage to be that much fun. It sucks when you get blocked and you know you're going to die but you still have to wait multiple seconds for the zeds to finally do you in.
In KF1 it was smooth sailing at full health but if you got hit by something it would drop your health significantly and that would also affect your movement speed dramatically. It felt like your injuries slowed you down until you were unable to keep your distance from zeds which would tear you apart if they caught up to you. KF2 doesn't feel the same in this regard and I know the devs have stated they don't want to remake KF1 but I think this is an aspect that has changed for the worse for me.
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