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Looking for Balance & Feedback

taiiat;n2318973 said:
Support:
Magazine Capacity vs Reload:
this is a balanced choice technically, however DBS being unaffected by Magazine Capacity makes an obvious choice for me. not that i expect it to be affected by Magazine. it just solidifies it into a similar situation as on Commando - i'm going to be doing a lot of Reloading either way so i might as well speed all of that up.

Resupply Pack should clarify itself, it makes it sound like you need to take that for Allies to get Ammo from you each Wave. but it's just for them to get Armor each Wave. why is this button denoting a passive part of Support, exactly?

In regards to these skills, I don't understand why some keep thinking the boomstick should be affected by the mag increase. Unlike every other shotgun in the Supports arsenal, the boomstick is breech loaded while everything else is either tube fed or has a magazine box. Can't give it a mag increase unless you add more barrels.

As for the supply pack, it gives your team more ammo than they would get if you didn't carry it in addition to armor. Plus, it gives yourself a few extra mags to use.
 
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Dr. Lethal;n2318981 said:
In regards to these skills, I don't understand why some keep thinking the boomstick should be affected by the mag increase. Unlike every other shotgun in the Supports arsenal, the boomstick is breech loaded while everything else is either tube fed or has a magazine box. Can't give it a mag increase unless you add more barrels.

As for the supply pack, it gives your team more ammo than they would get if you didn't carry it in addition to armor. Plus, it gives yourself a few extra mags to use.

(i don't know if you're directing that towards me or not but i literally said i don't expect it to be affected by it)

do you have definitive proof of this? because the hero we need but not the hero we deserve simplecat has Resupply Pack as unaffecting the Ammo Allies get from you whatsoever.
i could certainly grab someone and do a 5 minute test sometime, but i haven't for that Skill not affecting Ammo in the past (and therefore not expecting it to in the future).
 
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Here's my long list of things that can be done for Survivalist:

Passives:
New Passive: All Survivalist weapons have a hidden 0.4 * level damage bonus. This is mainly to stack with the Survivalist's 0.6 * level weapon damage, though this also means that if you're a Level 25 Berserker, you can get a 10% damage bonus with the Freezethrower.

New Passive: Weapon Switch Speed (2.4% * Level). Being a perk designed to carry multiple weapons from other perks, I think we can all agree that this is necessary.

Tactical Reload skills
Affects the random weapon you spawn with based on your selection. HMTECH101 will be in the random weapon pool regardless of what skill you pick due to its usage as a healing item.

Tactical Reload: Now applies to Field Medic and Berserker weapons on top of what it currently affects
Heavy Weapons Training: Now applies to Firebug and Berserker weapons on top of what it currently affects

Thinking Zerker would overlap with the Tactical Reload and Heavy Weapons skills, so as to fit the Pulverizer into both rapid fire or single shot loadouts.

Level 10 skills

Really hard to be a jack of all trades when you have to choose between slightly faster healing and extra melee damage (Didn't tripwire suggest a melee healer for possible Survivalist builds?). Additionally, Medic Training is kind of useless in its current state since the bonuses are pretty negligible compared to increased movement speed with your knife. IMHO, Melee Expert should be a guarantee on Level 10. Perhaps these skills would be preferable?

Mad Doctor: Increase syringe recharge speed by 80%*, melee attack speed and damage by 15% and 10% damage, and run 25% faster with melee weapons.
CQB Training: Increase neutral weapon damage by 10%, melee attack speed by 15%, and run 25% faster with melee weapons.

Rather than choosing between slightly better heals and running faster, the choice is now between almost twice the recharge speed with medic darts versus dealing a bit more damage with ranged weapons, with both skills giving the same bonuses to melee.

*This is the equivalent to a Level 10 Medic's syringe recharge

Level 15 skills
Medic Grenades can be useful on the early game when you can't fill up all 15 blocks. However, when you start getting your Tier 3 and Tier 4 stuff, you're gonna have to switch skills in order to maximize your damage output as Survivalist. Perhaps this could be some welcome changes?

Ammo Vest: On top of the increased reserve and Medic Grenades, most weapons will have a 50% larger magazine
Weapon Harness: Molotov Cocktails are replaced with Fragmentation Grenades

Level 25 skills
Madman: Now applies to Melee weapons

Crap i think could be addressed, but dunno how
9mm Pistol: Because the 9mm is an off-perk weapon, I feel like the Survivalist should be able to decapitate clots with it. I dunno how this would be implemented.
Zed Time Lockdown: Needs replacement, but how would you compete with shooting your weapons in real time, especially since the Survivalist has stupidly fast reload speeds in Zed Time.
 
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taiiat;n2318986 said:
(i don't know if you're directing that towards me or not but i literally said i don't expect it to be affected by it)

do you have definitive proof of this? because the hero we need but not the hero we deserve simplecat has Resupply Pack as unaffecting the Ammo Allies get from you whatsoever.
i could certainly grab someone and do a 5 minute test sometime, but i haven't for that Skill not affecting Ammo in the past (and therefore not expecting it to in the future).

I've noticed getting at least another spare mag or two from a support with the skill than one without it. For some weapons though, it seems it doesn't change like the grenade launchers and flame weapons. For rifles, shotguns, etc., it's noticeable but not enough to stand out.
 
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Dr. Lethal;n2318992 said:
I've noticed getting at least another spare mag or two from a support with the skill than one without it. For some weapons though, it seems it doesn't change like the grenade launchers and flame weapons. For rifles, shotguns, etc., it's noticeable but not enough to stand out.

The amount of ammo you gain from a level 20+ support teammate is the same regardless of Resupply Pack or Concussion Rounds. I encourage you to test with a friend and verify this for yourself just as others have when presented with this information.
 
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It would be cool if survivalist had a bunch of general skills to choose from and can choose any four+one zed time choice. Like the 8 choices he has before a zedtime perk can be picked in any order at the cost of being more general. Give it some other options too like killed zeds let out healing gas for 1 second that heals 20hp or an armor backpack that lets players partially heal their armor. Make all 8 bonuses apply to all weapons or something worth taking. I think survivalist would be way more fun if it was like, pick and choose.
 
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  • General
    • Difficulty scaling is OK.
    • For the greater good, make it so that Zed quantity per wave is distributed in percentage.
    • Weapon upgrade should be Endless mode only.
  • Weapons
    • This still stands afaics; updates and additions are being made as of post v1060.
      • Highlight:
        • Addressing the imbalance of tier-1 weaponry.
        • Rework to the wielding system of dual/single pistols.
        • Make burning status more prominent than just DOT.
        • Commando weaponry recoil adjusted across the board; will address the necessity of the 'Hollow Point Rounds' skill.
        • Railgun OP, lower damage and add charge mechanic to compensate.
        • Rework C4 Remote Explosive so its usability will not be that low.
        • SWAT weaponry overhaul so that they are actual SMGs instead of nerfed-rifles.
  • Perks
    • There is too much to talk about with the perks, to narrow it down, I'd start with "make each perk more than just a XXX-wielding class" and "Make Survivalist actually more survivable by giving it things like self damage resistance, fall damage resistance, death immunity from fall damage, better self heal, etc".
  • Zeds
    • Cyst: Redesignate to walker horde.
      • Decrease melee base damage from 6 to 4
      • Decrease head health from 15/20/20/20 to 15/15/15/15 on each difficulty.
      • Decrease body health from 75/100/100/100 to 50/50/75/75 on each difficulty.
      • Increase spawn frequency to near constant.
      • Add a chance to spawn of mob of them (15+).
    • Alpha Clot:
      • Increase head health on Normal by 5
    • Slasher: Should be slasher-er.
      • Make 'em focus on regular attacks.
      • Increase head health on Normal by 5
    • Gorefiend: Do something about the dreadful spin move.
      • Less dramatic and more fluent spin.
        • Lower spin count.
        • Smoother in/out transition.
        • May spin more frequently if underwhelming.
    • Rioter: Melee attack is oddly strong as if they are wielding weapons.
      • Decrease melee attack base damage from 8 to 6
    • Husk: Could use some characteristic improvement
      • Replace melee attacks with close-range (~1m) Hadouken blast.
    • Siren:
      • Make her harness visually thicker to better reflect the actual hitbox.
    • Quarter Pound: Not working to their full potential due to being treated like a large-medium Zed.
      • Transit to medium-large Zed; weaker stats, slimmer body, greater spawn frequency.
    • The Abomination:
      • Boring skill set; dullest and easiest boss Zed. The whole experience is just a drag.
      • I think the concept of "the big one" could be implemented better by redesigning it to serve as some sort of mobile barrack.
        • Redesignate from being a boss Zed to a mini-boss/special/rare Zed.
        • Spawn Toxic Cyst, functionally the same to the existing Abomination Spawn, with similar jelly poison-green appearance.
        • Prioritize the production of Toxic Cysts, will try to avoid confronting human players.
        • Even thicker/wider physique, stubby legs, very slow move speed, cannot sprint.
        • So encumbered by her own... equipment... that she doesn't have any melee attack.
        • Remove armor and decrease existing health pool by half.
        • High kill bounty.
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NokiaSE;n2319006 said:
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[
[*]Cyst: Redesignate to walker horde.
  • Decrease melee base damage from 6 to 4
  • Decrease head health from 15/20/20/20 to 15/15/15/15 on each difficulty.
  • Decrease body health from 75/100/100/100 to 50/50/75/75 on each difficulty.
  • Increase spawn frequency to near constant.
  • Add a chance to spawn of mob of them (15+).
  • Gorefiend: Do something about the dreadful spin move.
    • Less dramatic and more fluent spin.
      • Lower spin count.
      • Smoother in/out transition.
      • May spin more frequently if underwhelming.
      -


    • The only issue i have with gorefiends (aka fidget spinners) is when they come up behind you and open with spin attack. they should never just default/open with spin attack.

      walker horde...kinda a cool idea actually.
 
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Can zed footsteps be more distinct and somewhat more audible?
everything is so mixed in together that you just can't distinguish anything from anyone, with music on/off.

Even stalkers have issue with audio that sometimes you hear their footsteps, sometimes you don't.... And its quite wank when you hear nothing behind and swigity swooty they came for me booty.
 
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s5yn3t;n2319038 said:
Can zed footsteps be more distinct and somewhat more audible?
everything is so mixed in together that you just can't distinguish anything from anyone, with music on/off.

Even stalkers have issue with audio is that sometimes you hear their footsteps, sometimes you don't.... And its quite wank when you hear nothing behind and swigity swooty, they came for me booty.

Speaking of sounds, can we get some variant of the old fleshpound sounds? More specifically, the noise generated when they pound the floor. A year or so ago, it actually sounded like metal hitting concrete, giving you a good indication when a fleshpound is going mad when you can't see him. As it is right now, his yell is loud enough to hear, but the ground pound noises are pretty muffled which reduces the 'oh crap' factor.
 
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Dr. Lethal;n2319041 said:
Speaking of sounds, can we get some variant of the old fleshpound sounds? More specifically, the noise generated when they pound the floor. A year or so ago, it actually sounded like metal hitting concrete, giving you a good indication when a fleshpound is going mad when you can't see him. As it is right now, his yell is loud enough to hear, but the ground pound noises are pretty muffled which reduces the 'oh crap' factor.

unless you have a 400w sound system with the bass turned up haha..then you feel it!
 
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Regarding the Medic SMG, would these changes perhaps be favourable?

Medic SMG
Damage increased to 20 Ballistic_SMG
Weight increased to 4

MP5 Submachinegun
Damage decreased from 25 Ballistic_SMG to 22 Ballistic_Shotgun
The change in damage type is mainly so that it's more effective against medium zeds than the Medic SMG (10 shots of 22 damage to decapitate a husk vs 14 shots of 15 damage)
 
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ok...
so i have spend quite the hours in the Preview build of the summer update.

first of.
i personally would love to be able to turn the event skins on the ZEDS on or off as i find and always have found the constand seasonal change in ZED skins annoying, especially when the hitbox doesn't follow suit. best case of this is the siren looking like it has no metal parts around its torso but when you hit it, there is clearly all the effect of hitting metal still in place I.E. the sound, the sparks and the reduced damage...

i love the idea of the upgrade system... HOWEVER:
reducing the damage of almost every weapon to compensate for the upgrade system is NOT the right way to go about it and reading trough the comments and post on both steam and the tripwire forums suggests that the majority of the community agrees.
the upgrade system could have been made alot deeper and comprehensive, including things like diffrent attachments that could be added to weapons like sights, laser pointers, muzzlebreaks, magpul handles on magasins ETC. just to name a few options.
not to mention the increase of magasin capacity, reduced recoil and ofcourse the already included increased damage, heck even reduced waight would be very welcome additions aswell. and those are just the few things i could come up with on top my head.

the addition of Robots.
oh boy.
ok... so... not fond of them...
i welcome the added challenge they provide HOWEVER, they are boring bullet spunges that takes all of your attention just to get rid of them...
they spawn before the scrake but any time during the game i precieve the E.D.A.R's as bigger threats then a bloody scrake.
there is no gore associated with the E.D.A.R's and that is quite a puzzle to me since you, during the EARLY ACCESS period were so proud of your M.E.A.T (Massive Evisceration and Trauma) system and now out of nowhere you choose to add an adversary that pretty much adds nothing to the games gory setting.
in what world could they NOT have been made out of flesh and be a set of entirely new ZEDs?
now since the E.D.A.R's are as the are it would be supurb would we be able to take out the weapons on the E.D.A.R's... but that is simply not the case and there is no other way of reducing the threat level they represent like with the Bloat (take off it's head and it is no longer able to puke on you)
a feature like that would also give the sharpshooter an additional task other then waiting for the scrakes and fleshpounds to spawn giving that the sharpshooter plays with the heavy weapons (Railgun, M99 AMR)
my opinion on the individual E.D.A.R's:
E.D.A.R. Blaster: Nothing In Line aside from the above mentioned topics.
E.D.A.R. Bomber: Nothing In Line aside from the above mentioned topics.
E.D.A.R. Trapper: this bloody thing as of right now is the only thing that is totally capabel of ruining a great round of Suicidal Endless and Survival. i have on more then one occasion been trapped by a Trapper from the other end of the map... the range of that bloody thing needs to be reduced drastically as it is basically able to get a hold of you just as you are doing your best to avoid getting overwhelmed by the mishmash of Scrakes and Fleshpounds that is already waaaay too close and you havent even noticed that the bloody thing has even spawned.
and that brings me on to the next issue with the Trapper: is is pretty much able to trap you regardles of how many ZEDS are in its way, it just zaps right trough them trapping you in a meatpile of ZEDS.
i have also experianced that the Trapper have been able to trap me from behind cover I.E. Cars and trough glass and numerous other inanimate objects.
I will also bring to your attention that the Preview build has only been out for a few days... but there is already a MOD on the steam workshop allowing the players to disable the spawing of the E.D.A.R's... i will provide a link for those who are interested in such a mod and as proof that the addistion of the E.D.A.R's might not have been your wisest choice of action

E.D.A.R. Removal MOD:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1389006807

the Weapons:

Doomstick:
pretty much does what it says on the tin.
four barrels, four shots.
works like a charm... but the sound is dull and it sound pretty much like the desert eagle with a severe case of manflu... and that goes for both primary and secondary fire.

M99 AMR:
It feels great to shoot.
but i assume that AMR stands for Anti Material Rifle.
and it puzzles me that there is not such a mechanic in the games that makes such a powerful weapon brilliantly suited for taking out the arms on a fleshpound or the chainsaw on a scrake without killing them, significantly reducing the threat level of the larger Zeds. perhaps even being able to temporarely disable the weapon systems of the bosses with a welplaced shot taking brilliant advantage of the scope that the sharpshooters weapons come equipt with. (Railgun, M99 AMR)
i have also noticed that the damage reduction of the weapon is outrageous when hitting metal when it should clearly be able to piss right through without much effort.

Static Strikers:
i have nothing to say about these brilliantly designed gauntlets as the time i have spend using them is quite limited.

Endless Mode:
not being a part of the summer update does not exclude it from the scrudeny i have in store for it.
i love it.
it's brilliant.
but there needs to be some kind of system in place to ensure that there is some variation between the boss spawns.
it gets really boring having to deal with the King Fleshpound 3-4 times in a row.
the same goes for the special waves I.E. Bobble Zeds or *insert random ZED* only waves. bobble zeds gets old really fast.

Scrolling through the list of changes done to pretty much every tier 4 weapon makes me wonder if you are planning to add a completely new set of tier 4 weapons since pretty much every current tier 4 weapon have been reduced in stats to match tier 3... or if it is just something you have done to match the weapons with the upgrade system.
whatever the case may be i would boldly advise you to inform the community clearly of such plans since the changes have been met with confusion and even in some cases with disgust.
myself somewhat included.

the Prestige System:
this is, to put it simple, a great and exagurated waste of time...
there are no gameplay related benefits to going prestige, only some added, all be it reduced, grind in releveling your favorit perk to lvl 25 for the second time.
what you get for your efforts is a lausy knife skin, Vault Dosh, and something else that i cannot remember... cosmetic skins i think it was.
the prestige system would have been a perfect opportunity to add additional skills and perk bonuses to a perk not per level or every five levels but for ever 25 level. right now my Commando is lvl 17 prestige and the only reason i have taken it that far is because it is my favorit and i want it back to lvl 25 again as soon as possible because i freakin' need it! had i choosen to do the prestige with the sharpshooter on the other hand i can garentee you that it would quite possibly never reach lvl 25 again...

this update is all in all pretty much (and it pains me to say this) like the Survivalist perk: A lazy, boring and unfinished addition to the game that lacks refinement, characteristics, effort and imagination.
i am well aware that this is just a preview build but of all the things i have seen so far i am (and this is putting it mildly) concurned with the future of the game.
 
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Some of those weapon nerfs are really unnecessary for weapons that are already too weak like flamethrower, AA12 or Stoner which is again weaker than the AR-15, and those new upgrades for weapons are almost nothing. low dmg increase + weight increase = upgrade only return the original dmg before nerf at the cost of higher weight and spending more money. I don't see any point here of nerfing low tier guns at all. Upgraded AR-15 will have more dmg than upgraded Stoner (that dmg is laughable), like WTF???? This shouldnt happen. Nerfing all weapons then spent more money to get revert the nerf with addition of extra weight makes you unable to carry more weapons like before...

Best solutions in my opinion would be to revert all the weapon nerfs, and leave upgrade system as it is or add extra ammo capacity for upgrade system which will increase the weight. Otherwise it doesn't make sense.
 
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I really believe Stoner needs a buff, here's some research i've done comparing the Stoner with both Kriss and SCAR.

Comparisons: Red for worse and Green for better

| Kriss | Stoner | Difference | | SCAR | Stoner | Difference |

DAMAGE | 33 | 30 | 3 | | 55 | 30 | 25 |

DPS | 660 | 454 | 206 | | 572 | 454 | 118 |

WEIGHT | 6 | 9 | 3 | | 6 | 9 | 3 |

ACCURACY | 70 | 68 | 2 | | 70 | 68 | 2 |

PRICE | Both 1500 | | Both 1500 |

AMMO COST | 35 | 70 | 35 | | 28 | 70 | 42 |

MAGAZINE | 33 | 75 | 42 | | 20 | 75 | 55 |

AMMO POOL | 495 | 500 | 5 | | 340 | 500 | 160 |


The only good thing from the stoner is its higher ammo capacity, however the reload time is increased in a propotional amount and you will be doing half the damage from SCAR-H, so you will need to shot twice the amount from what you would shot from SCAR-H making the magazine size nearly irelevant.

Conclusion:

The Stoner is worse in every way compared to the SCAR-H and does not compensate for any of its downsides, making you move slower and have less inventory space for other weapons, while having a higher cost for maintaning it. The bullets also deal less damage than a Kriss.

My Suggestion is to buff its damage per bullet to 45 increasing the DPS to 697,5. This way all the other downsides could be justified and it could be worth being slower and having less weapons for a bigger gun.
 
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I really think TWI have put in way too many changes at once. My feedback?

1. keep the upgrade system but REMOVE the additional weight penalty. On most perks now you're limited to two weapons and you can't even upgrade both of them. The lower grade the weapon the worse it does.
2. For the life of me....why does a 9V battery only last 5 minutes? We're not running super LED lights attached to my iphone playing spotify - its just a damned torch. The battery shouldn't run out. Don't make things difficult for the sake of it.
3. Keep EDARs in a separate map. Don't mix them with the general zed population. I think you guys have gotten so excited about making these robot things that you've forgotten exactly what KF2 is meant to be...players vs zeds. Noone asked for silly robots. They drastically affect gameplay with rockets and immobilisation, etc.
 
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