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Should SWAT have a passive skill?

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  • Should SWAT have a passive skill?

    Hi, I'm wondering that swat is a bit Underpowered compared with commando.

    As you know one of the best roles of commando is to reveal stalkers (which are increasingly annoying in suicidal/hoe). More than that, a skilled commando with a great weapon and hollow point rounds skill can kill Scrakes fairly easily, that is supposed to be one of the advantages of the swat (because, being honest, they, both, are pretty bad against FP and QP).

    IMO Swat should have a passive skill like one of these things:

    * +2/+4 HP per level, with a total of +50/+100 (150/200) HP at level 25
    * Tactical Movement as passive, so there would be another skill at level 5.
    * +0,8 crouch movement per level, so, actually, if you choose Tactical Movement you will move faster crouching that walking.

    The main problem is that swat IMO is not so different respect commando, adding the stalkers problem. I think is NOT a bad perk, but it needs be more distinctive, maybe based on accuracy play (crouch movement) or more resistant.

    What do you think? Thank you very much!

  • #2
    The thing with SWAT is it's a quick killer. The damage output is rather high when using the top tier weapons. Combine that with increased ammo cap and unlimited ammo + near real-time firing causes the damage to skyrocket. A well-versed SWAT can take out Scrakes and Fleshpounds with relative ease if they can aim.

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    • #3
      SWATs weapons have excellent burst potential, low recoil, high stagger, massive magazines and low weight. the flashbang is also one of the most useful grenades around to back that up, creating an opening against big zeds to dump that high DPS. (with the kriss easily decapping scrakes on any difficulty with any number of players and with minimal extra effort FPs will suffer a similar fate) when it comes to raw combat potential, based on available weapons I think the swat beats the commando.

      its current passive "+mag size" definitely isn't bad

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      • #4
        No passives, it's already a good perk.

        Comment


        • #5
          Id vote commandos zed time extension is way better to have than the stalker vision.

          honestly theyre both good. id rather see a better tactical reload alternative for commando.

          Comment


          • #6
            I'd love to see burst firing Beretta 93R in the arsenal of Commando (mainly), SWAT and GS. 3 blocks of weight so it could fit into AK12 / Scar loadout.
            Or G18, as said.

            As for skills, i think Heavy Armor Training's damage reduction should become passive 10% + 1% / level. All armor skills kinda underwhelming. Also +30% ammo is just too good to not to take over extra stumble power.
            Last edited by simplecat; 01-15-2018, 10:07 AM.
            Killing Floor 2 stats (spreadsheet)
            http://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GDpg2mN1l_86U_RaDug0glFx8cZCuErwxZLiBKl9SyY

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            • #7
              Originally posted by simplecat View Post
              I'd love to see burst firing Beretta 93R in the arsenal of Commando (mainly) and GS. 3 blocks of weight so it could fit into AK12 / Scar loadout.
              I just realized your default avatar is upside down.

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              • #8
                Meh... I don't think he needs a passive to be honest. It's quite a versatile and useful perk already. He's certainly how of the best "suppressive" perk with his SMGs and flashbangs. No to mention that depending on his perk, he can either be a very nimble perk OR a very tanky one.

                Compared to that, the commando mostly has "basic" skills that increases his weapons effectiveness (larger mags,extra damage,quicker reload...) , hence why it's justified for him to have two passives.

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                • #9
                  SWAT weaponry is more problematic than the perk itself.
                  Don't trust the atoms, they made up everything.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by NokiaSE View Post
                    SWAT weaponry is more problematic than the perk itself.
                    what is the problem with the swats weapons?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      SWAT feels kind of beasty to me... I don't really think it's lacking anything.

                      I prefer playing Mando, but when it comes to killing the big guys (like already mentioned in this thread), the SWAT can already handle itself very well with the Fleshpounds and Scrakes.

                      Currently it's a matter of personal preference as to which perk is better between the 2 - which is a good thing. Both perks are getting a lot of play based on what I see on the servers.

                      If your team has a Mando already, play SWAT and vice versa. I would not mess with it.
                      http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198049374232/

                      Hard/Suicidal - KF1 and Custom Maps
                      https://www.gametracker.com/server_i....158.29:23000/

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by conductiv View Post

                        what is the problem with the swats weapons?
                        Objectively speaking, despite being compensated by weight, they achieve utterly nothing on their own other than having a more efficient firepower distribution model for disposing small Zeds like Clots, Crawlers and Stalkers.

                        Practically speaking, first off; I'd expect their handling attributes to be innately better than rifles, meaning things like increased movement speed while aiming shouldn't come from perk bonus to say the very least. This is because being more affordable, which in this case is the carry capacity (weight) they require, is only half of what it takes for such weaponry to be selected for personal defense purpose - as suchlike weapon also have to be nimble enough so that their user may fall-back with and-or upon them effectively.

                        Secondly, I'd call out their stats design when it comes to ammo and damage being... less than perfect. I think SMG as a weapon type could definitely show better coordination in said stats to fulfill their role slash niche better, as in adjusting damage to be lower; ammo pool to be larger; ammo cost to be cheaper; etc, so that they are at least that much more distinct in said aspects hence remain competitive when being compared to an overall better option.
                        Last edited by NokiaSE; 01-15-2018, 02:56 PM.
                        Don't trust the atoms, they made up everything.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by NokiaSE View Post

                          Objectively speaking, despite being compensated by weight, they achieve utterly nothing on their own other than having a more efficient firepower distribution model for disposing small Zeds like Clots, Crawlers and Stalkers.

                          Practically speaking, first off; I'd expect their handling attributes to be innately better than rifles, meaning things like increased movement speed while aiming shouldn't come from perk bonus to say the very least. This is because being more affordable, which in this case is the carry capacity (weight) they require, is only half of what it takes for such weaponry to be selected for personal defense purpose - as suchlike weapon also have to be nimble enough so that their user may fall-back with and-or upon them effectively.

                          Secondly, I'd call out their stats design when it comes to ammo and damage being... less than perfect. I think SMG as a weapon type could definitely show better coordination in said stats to fulfill their role slash niche better, as in adjusting damage to be lower; ammo pool to be larger; ammo cost to be cheaper; etc, so that they are at least that much more distinct in said aspects hence remain competitive when being compared to an overall better option.
                          well the swat seems intended as a small zed sweeper, hence the focus on automatic weapons that deal bonus damage to clots. they also come with huge magazines to facilitate this "efficient firepower distribution" to efficiently distribute bullets to clot heads. now, since any class is at least proficient in dealing with the lowest of the zeds this doesn't really give him a lot of extra ooph when compared to a assault rifle that is only marginally worse.

                          now what the swat weapons do have is a combination of high DPS with large magazines, and on the SWAT class this combo's extremely well with his flashbang to sweep large zeds. the big issue with swat weapons is middle class zeds (gorefast/fiend/siren/bloat and the husk if the tank isn't a good target) as it will take its higher tier weapons to be used on perk to effectively dispose of them. and as these zeds are very common, SWAT tends to be a dosh hugger because of high ammo expenditure.

                          no weapon gives its user movement speed, ADS aiming speed or crouch speed bonuses without perk support...it is in my opinion unreasonable to expect that SMG's would give these bonuses for free.

                          you state the stats design is less then perfect, perfection is a hard thing to hit...however for the job these guns are supposed to do they should be adequate and be a reasonable representation of the depicted guns stats. and I can't say they are way off the mark in that aspect

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I don't understand why we don't have "gas mask" as passive, mb some toxic damage reduction(and visualy too)?
                            [url=http://www.destinationunreal.com/modules.php?name=mh_stats][img]http://www.destinationunreal.com/player/player_17749.gif[/img][/url]

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by conductiv View Post
                              no weapon gives its user movement speed, ADS aiming speed or crouch speed bonuses without perk support...it is in my opinion unreasonable to expect that SMG's would give these bonuses for free.
                              I suppose such change would be the first of its kind, a leap for all weapons in this game - hence I admit it seems to be somewhat inappropriate, as in unjust - that the even more maneuverable weapon type, namely the pistols, don't get any of this. In my opinion, they are the next problematic weapon type, which I'd also suggest to change if TWI really want to sort out the weapon meta/balance.

                              However, for reasons previously stated, I really believe it is the necessary step towards the right direction. As always, the goal is to make every single option a keeper given the situation is right - as I feel there should rarely exist a case where one option is practically replaceable by another.


                              Originally posted by conductiv View Post
                              you state the stats design is less then perfect, perfection is a hard thing to hit...however for the job these guns are supposed to do they should be adequate and be a reasonable representation of the depicted guns stats. and I can't say they are way off the mark in that aspect
                              Given small Zeds' stats, such as health, don't really scale along the difficulty levels, I feel it's actually feasible to narrow the numbers down in this case. Even if said stats is a subject to change, it shouldn't be anything more than factoring one additional factor. The math in this case isn't that complex.

                              Particularly speaking, given they are respecting the same ratio/formula, I'm not exactly happy about SMG ammo pool being only ~20% larger than rifles - as it doesn't separate the damage profile of the two apart far enough that they are too similar - to the extent where the difference is mostly seen on large Zeds, which isn't even SMG's application target.

                              With this being said, considering the fact that carry capacity (weight) is the ultimate factor for how we determine the value as well as the come and go of each option/weapon in this game, the way how SMGs have way less recoil, a couple of weight block lighter by average, SMGs are fairly problematic.


                              Beyond the spectrum of weaponry, I'd say make SWAT perk more like SWAT, rather than simply a SMG-wielding perk, though - sadly - is the case for each perk and their respective weapon type, which has been my greatest complaint with the game thus far.
                              Last edited by NokiaSE; 01-16-2018, 06:55 PM.
                              Don't trust the atoms, they made up everything.

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