Starting grants do not worth the same especially for SWAT. Probably need rebalance.

[Utopia-Phoenix]

^^topic

(Such grants require adequate perks, unmentioned)
Ordinary perks: T1 weapon, worths $100
Commando: T1 weapons + 25 armor, worths $160
SWAT: T1 weapons + 100 armor + 2nd 9mm pistol, worths $375

I don't want to say more. Starting as a SWAT and swap perks afterwards offer great starting advantage.

 

[s5yn3t]

Demo's hx25 worth 150... I still dont understand why that T1 weapon is the most expensive of them all

 

[Utopia-Phoenix]

Demo's hx25 worth 150... I still dont understand why that T1 weapon is the most expensive of them all

I neither. But that's a minor issue.
Back to the days of KF1, the respawn grants are not worth the same either. Sharpshooters can get as much as $600 while the others as low as $225 or something. However, starting as a sharpshooter is RISKY. Getting killed easily. The advantages come with such a risk.

Not in KF2. SWAT, as I experienced, is one of the MOST reliable perk for a start. Very unlikely to be killed unless you did it on purpose. That made it significantly superior to the others as a starting perk.

 

[oldmidget]

Demo's hx25 worth 150... I still dont understand why that T1 weapon is the most expensive of them all

its the only T1 i willingly bring to last wave. with DOW it really is amazing.

 

[Servalion]

Demo's hx25 worth 150... I still dont understand why that T1 weapon is the most expensive of them all

That's on par with the Winchester, then. One of the reasons its the best starter on my list. I feel like Gunslingers would be complaining about their Revolvers a lot more if they didn't get Winchester as crossperk.

 

[s5yn3t]

That's on par with the Winchester, then. One of the reasons its the best starter on my list. I feel like Gunslingers would be complaining about their Revolvers a lot more if they didn't get Winchester as crossperk.

Nah, complaining is still the same, since wench made no impact on the opinion... Mostly because no one uses the bloody thing... Unless he picked it up as random drop... Or from a dead sharp lmao

 

[Servalion]

Nah, complaining is still the same, since wench made no impact on the opinion... Mostly because no one uses the bloody thing... Unless he picked it up as random drop... Or from a dead sharp lmao

Wait, why -wouldn't- GS use Winchester? For a starter, its pretty strong in a GS's hands, and then there's the ammo exploit. It's easy money.

 

[s5yn3t]

Wait, why -wouldn't- GS use Winchester? For a starter, its pretty strong in a GS's hands, and then there's the ammo exploit. It's easy money.

have you seen any gs using it?
because from the time the crossperk got launched, i only saw 3 slingers use the gun from mostly picking it up from the ground or dead sharp (and i used it once when i ran out of revolvers and had lar picked up on w1)

i personally just insta opt for 1911... I am even mad in a sense is that i use 1911 in most of the waves for trash killing on hoe... With a single 1911, not dual wielding

 

[Servalion]

have you seen any gs using it?
because from the time the crossperk got launched, i only saw 3 slingers use the gun from mostly picking it up from the ground or dead sharp (and i used it once when i ran out of revolvers and had lar picked up on w1)

i personally just insta opt for 1911... I am even mad in a sense is that i use 1911 in most of the waves for trash killing on hoe... With a single 1911, not dual wielding

Well, single semi-auto pistol is hella quick, so its a significant advantage. Depends on playstyle, really. Boils back down to the ol' Commando choice - Tactical Reload vs Extended Mags? (I swear, one day, we shouldn't have to choose between these like we used to) Except with Gunslinger, its faster reloads -and- less weight. Granted, Winchester, or LAR for short, isn't meant to be there in the end, but its a super attractive option from Wave 2 until however long it takes to need to drop it to free weight up for other things. I've seen some Gunslingers using it, and I use it to my own discovery and merit. Its not necessarily about just having power early on, but getting money quicker.

Consider this: The LAR does 80 damage per shot, putting it right behind the Desert Eagle, but it is accessible right from Wave 2 at an attractive $200, leaving plenty of money for ammo. Problem is, due to its power, its ammo is overly expensive. $50 per reload - .500 Magnum levels of expensive. Keeping it fed through normal means will easily chew up any profit you make at that range in early waves. But here's the kicker - buying it from the Trader starts it with 60 ammo - $250 worth of shots. Seems normal, right? But due to its high ammo cost, its anything but normal.

So, the trick is, why buy ammo? Seriously, why? Just buy another LAR. It not only costs just $200, but it sells back for $150, netting you back 75% of your investment instantly. It's that simple. Wave 2, buy a LAR. Blow through it, and fall back to 1858s or whatever you have. Wave 3, sell off the used/empty LAR, and immediately buy a new one. Boom, just basically bought $250 worth of ammo for a mere $50. Quickly adds up during the first half of a match, especially 10 wavers. Allowing you to stock up on those pistols that much faster.

 

[s5yn3t]

Well, single semi-auto pistol is hella quick, so its a significant advantage. Depends on playstyle, really. Boils back down to the ol' Commando choice - Tactical Reload vs Extended Mags? (I swear, one day, we shouldn't have to choose between these like we used to) Except with Gunslinger, its faster reloads -and- less weight. Granted, Winchester, or LAR for short, isn't meant to be there in the end, but its a super attractive option from Wave 2 until however long it takes to need to drop it to free weight up for other things. I've seen some Gunslingers using it, and I use it to my own discovery and merit. Its not necessarily about just having power early on, but getting money quicker.

Consider this: The LAR does 80 damage per shot, putting it right behind the Desert Eagle, but it is accessible right from Wave 2 at an attractive $200, leaving plenty of money for ammo. Problem is, due to its power, its ammo is overly expensive. $50 per reload - .500 Magnum levels of expensive. Keeping it fed through normal means will easily chew up any profit you make at that range in early waves. But here's the kicker - buying it from the Trader starts it with 60 ammo - $250 worth of shots. Seems normal, right? But due to its high ammo cost, its anything but normal.

So, the trick is, why buy ammo? Seriously, why? Just buy another LAR. It not only costs just $200, but it sells back for $150, netting you back 75% of your investment instantly. It's that simple. Wave 2, buy a LAR. Blow through it, and fall back to 1858s or whatever you have. Wave 3, sell off the used/empty LAR, and immediately buy a new one. Boom, just basically bought $250 worth of ammo for a mere $50. Quickly adds up during the first half of a match, especially 10 wavers. Allowing you to stock up on those pistols that much faster.

huh, thanks for the tip m8

 

[Aleflippy]

I don't really see what the fuss is about? It's still far less than in the first game. You could make a pretty penny by starting the game with a lvl 6 berserker or sharpshooter.

Now the best you could hope to make is an extra 400+ bucks as a level 20 SWAT... That's not a really high amount, even more considering the fact SMGs spits out loads of ammo.

 

[Servalion]

huh, thanks for the tip m8

NP, just sharing what I know. By the time you're ready to drop the Winchester, you've probably sold off the 1858s, and have Dual 1911s & Dual Deagles and just need the space for the Magnums. If you carry single pistols, that's even more potential, depending on what you'd use in addition. It's a great trick while it lasts, and makes the game a good bit easier for able GS and SS players to advance quickly. Survivalists and other classes can take advantage too to full benefit, if at a lesser potency than LAR's intended users.

This still doesn't address the woefully underpowered 1858s. MP7's stupid weak per shot too. I don't think any ranged starter weapons feel more punishing for missing headshots than these two, because that's all they're good for. But that's an issue for another thread which I'm thinking of starting.

 

[s5yn3t]

NP, just sharing what I know. By the time you're ready to drop the Winchester, you've probably sold off the 1858s, and have Dual 1911s & Dual Deagles and just need the space for the Magnums. If you carry single pistols, that's even more potential, depending on what you'd use in addition. It's a great trick while it lasts, and makes the game a good bit easier for able GS and SS players to advance quickly. Survivalists and other classes can take advantage too to full benefit, if at a lesser potency than LAR's intended users.

This still doesn't address the woefully underpowered 1858s. MP7's stupid weak per shot too. I don't think any ranged starter weapons feel more punishing for missing headshots than these two, because that's all they're good for. But that's an issue for another thread which I'm thinking of starting.

thats why they are starting guns, enough to survive a wave or couple and then drop them because you need higher dmging guns with bigger ammo pool.
​​​​

 

[poultrygeist]

Swat is by far the best perk to start you off,dual 9mm + the accompanying skill to do 100% more damage,free armour and the T1 SMG. You can easily do the 1st wave with the 9mm's only on 6p HoE. Then sell the 2nd pistol/SMG and switch to whatever tickles your fancy.

In fact you might as well do the 2nd wave too with the dual 9ies.

 

[Utopia-Phoenix]

Swat is by far the best perk to start you off,dual 9mm + the accompanying skill to do 100% more damage,free armour and the T1 SMG. You can easily do the 1st wave with the 9mm's only on 6p HoE. Then sell the 2nd pistol/SMG and switch to whatever tickles your fancy.

In fact you might as well do the 2nd wave too with the dual 9ies.

Yeah. That's what I am worrying about. KF2 isn't designed for perk switching sakes.

It's difficult to rebalance the LV10 CQC perk cause it's designed to be firing dual pistols. However it's possible to balance by removing armor grants from LV5 and LV20 skills.
Is it possible to make the respawned 9mm worth $0 from selling?

 

[poultrygeist]

I usually play a dedicated perk..meaning if I intend to play all the way through as mando I'll choose this perk right from the start.

But I can't see why it should be limited,if you start as swat to make the best start in terms of dosh and armour then why not? If you decide on the other hand you want to play a "pure" perk that's up to yourself.

 

[Utopia-Phoenix]

I usually play a dedicated perk..meaning if I intend to play all the way through as mando I'll choose this perk right from the start.

But I can't see why it should be limited,if you start as swat to make the best start in terms of dosh and armour then why not? If you decide on the other hand you want to play a "pure" perk that's up to yourself.

Because it's not intended to do so. The situation now in KF2 is far less serious than the case in KF1. In KF1 EVERYONE starts as SS for the Xbow which is a nasty scene. I don't want anyone play any designated perk because of anything other than his own specialty like DOSH!

 

[poultrygeist]

Iam not sure I understand what you mean but all I can see is "I don't want anyone play" and "its not intended"

Its not intended how? For you perhaps but that doesn't mean the devs didn't intend to implement this or simply just overlooked and either still do or think its fine how it is. After all we're not talking about an exploit in which its possible that a specific skill carries over..its about gaining an extra few pounds.

I have absolutely no problem players wanting to make it a tad easier for themsels to get to that next tier weapon by playing swat and then changing perks after the initial wave.

And again,if you want a more "purist" start you can very well do so.

 

[s5yn3t]

Iam not sure I understand what you mean but all I can see is "I don't want anyone play" and "its not intended"

Its not intended how? For you perhaps but that doesn't mean the devs didn't intend to implement this or simply just overlooked and either still do or think its fine how it is. After all we're not talking about an exploit in which its possible that a specific skill carries over..its about gaining an extra few pounds.

I have absolutely no problem players wanting to make it a tad easier for themsels to get to that next tier weapon by playing swat and then changing perks after the initial wave.

And again,if you want a more "purist" start you can very well do so.

Also to take note is that its a pve game (except versus but lmao who plays it anyway) so this called "exploit" has no impact other than having somekind of gear to use for 2nd wave in beyond.
+ majority of players that are casuals jist dont care about the more armor at start and then switch later.
with over 1k hours of players ive seen, they all started with one perk and mostly sticked with it till boss wave... Or died and decided to switch perk. Its quite a rarity to see a player that does that kind of switching to gain the most... Since a good player can already survive without the need of armor and able to get enough dosh for specific gun and ammo for it.

 

[Servalion]

I can see the appeal of SWAT with the free starters. An extra 9 milly can be attractive for some, and I've been putting some practice into it lately with all these posts suggesting its use to save early on. The Armor part doesn't move me much, but getting the equivalent of a full free vest saves a hefty $300 right from the start, so yeah, another advantage.

However, that only lasts as long as you don't get hit much. And on Suicidal/HoE, I find that that's not very likely in maps that aren't complete kite fests. They'll rip apart that "advantage" with a couple good hits, and then you'll be buying armor anyways.

The point with the Dual 9mm Perk still stands, but its also only about $250 saved in the process of not having to buy it and selling it off later. Honestly, for how piss weak they are without direct perk boostage, I'd be in favor of making Dualies weightless and removing the ability to sell them off completely, but that'll never happen. I can see why some players have issue with it. Its a money boosting advantage after all. It's just not one big enough to make me flinch.

For the record, I generally stick to Tactical Movement + Cripple instead of the armor perks anyways. I like my SWATs speedy and my Zeds not.