Let's talk about the incoming balance changes on medic HM401!

[Utopia-Phoenix]

This is something I found on trello board of KF2:

Weapons

Medic Perk
-Medic Assault Rifle
--Damage reduced 15%
--Rate of fire increased 16%
--Mag size increased 35%
--Recoil reduced 30%

a.k.a

-HM401
--Damage 40->34
--Rate of fire 650->754
--Mag size 30->41
Recoil reduced, cannot describe in numbers

This, in my opinion, is an ENHANCEMENT to this weapon rather than REDUCTION, at least in a COMMANDO's hand rather than a MEDIC's hand.

First of all, the damage reduction has minimal affaction on commando killing efficiency should he equips HPR.
The damage reduction. Read my post about damage thresholds. The threshold damage values of commando weapons are 25/32/40/50/62/78 respectively. A nerf from 40 to 34 is near to 1 level lower. However, note that these are pre perk damage values. With the commando perk it's 1.55x base damage with HPR enabled (1.25x with HPR disabled) which is equivalent to +2 (or +1 without HPR) levels of damage.
The killing effects of the thresholds vary and the most important ones are on 40 and 50.

40 damage. Enough to 1-bodyshot crawlers or 1-decap gorefasts. Enough to 6-decap bloats.
50 damage. Enough to 1-bodyshot stalkers. Enough to 2-tankshot husks. Enough to 5-decap bloats.
62 damage. Enough to 2-headshot elite clots/gorefasts. Enough to 4-decap bloats.

A commando with HPR enabled, if using a 34 damage weapon, results in a 52.7(integered as 53) damage post perk. That's enough for trash kills. (The advantage of 62 damage is mostly against medium zeds)

If against big zeds like Scrakes, that's pure DPS competition. It stays stable due to rof increase (430 -> 438). However, with the increased rof and mag size it means greater sustained fire (mag size/rof is higher) and greater knockdown power(you fired more at the foe, knockdown unchanged). I'd expect a easier SC knockout with commando HM401.

Except the damage reduction, all the other changes are all advantages...I bet I'll pickup HM401 a lot more often than today. Lol.

Also: I bet that the medic carrying HM401 will have a harder time killing trash. Medics, unlike commandos, are lack of damage enhancement skills. With the unenhanced 34 damage it's sure to be sh1tty. Perhaps they will equip the LV20 right skill "Battle surgeon" to compensate... (1.2x perked weapon damage, 34->41 damage to HM401)

 

[Tumbs!]

I personally don't like this change to the medic AR. One of the things Medic struggles is killing trash, and the HM-401 works pretty well against that. If they're going to nerf its damage, medic will suffer even more against Gorefiends and sirens in HoE, and I don't think I'm gonna sacrifice the damage buff for the battle surgeon skill.

Looks like the HM-301 is going to be more viable now

 

[s5yn3t]

with recoil reduction it will be actually managable to kill trash now...
all that's left is to reduce its weight to 6 blocks and we have a great gun.

 

[Lestat13]

I bet anything they tried to nerf it because Commando, but all they did was make it so medics can't one shot headshot Gorefasts, and Commandos carry on as normal.

 

[Utopia-Phoenix]

I bet anything they tried to nerf it because Commando, but all they did was make it so medics can't one shot headshot Gorefasts, and Commandos carry on as normal.

Yeah, I reckon so. They try to nerf this HM401 because it's too great in a commando's hand, but turned out to make it even GREATER. Lol.

TWI development staff certainly don't do well on mathematics here. The results are PREDICTED without even lay hand on the actual update. Balancing a commando require a profound understanding of the thresholds rather than focusing the dps only. Against a gorefast a 40dmg*600rpm weapon is A HELLUVA LOT superior than a 39dmg*700rpm weapon. Understand this profoundly, please, to TWI balancing members.

 

[Aleflippy]

I really don't know. Yes, the Commando might benefit from such changes, but let's not forget that it's a MEDIC weapon first and foremost... And by the look of it, it will be even worse.

What the medic is really lacking now is some much-needed punch. Of course, he has always been a supporting perk first and a trash-killer second. But now he might even struggle against trash zeds... That's ridiculous. KF1 medic may have been a bit OP, but he could fight against most zeds except the bigger ones once he got his hands on the Schneidzekk.

I hope the hemogoblin will bring so much needed power in the hands of our healer. Because I doubt a small increase in RoF will help much with that...

 

[Slie]

If they're going to nerf its damage, medic will suffer even more ..

I bet anything they tried to nerf it because Commando, but all they did was make it so medics can't one shot headshot Gorefasts, and Commandos carry on as normal.

It's not nerfed, it's more powerful. The DPS has gone up. It can deal more damage in the same amount of time now.

 

[Gladius]

This, in my opinion, is an ENHANCEMENT to this weapon rather than REDUCTION, at least in a COMMANDO's hand rather than a MEDIC's hand.

When your numbers are correct then it is an effective reduction of DPS.

 

[Tumbs!]

And bigger mag size equals to more ammo, and that means we have to invest even more dosh on the already expensive medic AR

 

[TheUndying]

I just hope I can finally shoot the Husk's tank when it's firing at me. Not being able to do that reliably on mid range is infuriating.

 

[Aleflippy]

It's not nerfed, it's more powerful. The DPS has gone up. It can deal more damage in the same amount of time now.

Yeah...By 5pts. What a huge difference.

 

[Lestat13]

It's not nerfed, it's more powerful. The DPS has gone up. It can deal more damage in the same amount of time now.

Facts are stubborn but statistics are more pliable; ARs are trash killers. Going from one shotting to two shotting zeds for Medics, but not for Commando clearly spells out who has been nerfed, and who will reap the extra side benefits.

 

[Utopia-Phoenix]

Facts are stubborn but statistics are more pliable; ARs are trash killers. Going from one shotting to two shotting zeds for Medics, but not for Commando clearly spells out who has been nerfed, and who will reap the extra side benefits.

Um, that's imprecise. It should be noted that 1-bodyshotting stalkers (which is 1 of the benefits breaching 50 damage threshold) is achieved by the commando rather than the medic, provided that both perks equip their usual skills (LV25+HPR for commando, all left for medic).

50-damage thresholds are inreachable for a medic HM401. However, if he wishes to reach the 40-damage threshold killing effects like today, he can equip the "Battle surgeon" to compensate. Doing this will enable all the 40-damage threshold effects (1-decap gorefasts, 1-bodyshot crawlers) so it's imprecise to say it's a sure 2-shot trash zeds for medics. It is because that HPR is usually chosen while Battle surgeon is not.

Also, are you sure it's trash killing the reason you pick HM401? If you really need to kill you could pick the HM301 for a faceshower of lead to them- that's instantly kill to even medium zeds!

 

[Gladius]

It is because that HPR is usually chosen while Battle surgeon is not.

Why would someone renounce the 25% damage bonus from battle surgeon, in favour of giving players more damage resistence when they already have too much damage resistance to begin with? Just a rethorical question, tho...

 

[Buzzkillinton]

Why would someone renounce the 25% damage bonus from battle surgeon, in favour of giving players more damage resistence when they already have too much damage resistance to begin with? Just a rethorical question, tho...

wut...

 

[Dr. Lethal]

Why would someone renounce the 25% damage bonus from battle surgeon, in favour of giving players more damage resistence when they already have too much damage resistance to begin with? Just a rethorical question, tho...

The heck are you sayin? The only perks with damage resistance are zerker and survivalist. SWAT might count since it has heavy armor training, but every other perk takes damage as normal.

 

[Utopia-Phoenix]

Why would someone renounce the 25% damage bonus from battle surgeon, in favour of giving players more damage resistence when they already have too much damage resistance to begin with? Just a rethorical question, tho...

I'm no Pro on medic but I assume that there are critical hours on players, like someone taking multiple blows from fleshpounds or scrakes, or, a lot more frequency, a bunch of whirlwinding Gorefiends. Healing darts with resistance buffs are essential at thus moment cause they are likely to take future attacks really soon. It can be the difference between life and death to this wrench.

A non-solo medic ALWAYS Prior healing to killing. Therefore "battle surgeon" is rarely chosen. In normal conditions it's chosen only by SOLO MEDICs.

 

[Gladius]

A non-solo medic ALWAYS Prior healing to killing. Therefore "battle surgeon" is rarely chosen.

That's just your personal assumption.

 

[Dr. Lethal]

Any medic that focuses too much on killing rather than healing is failing the team. If you're on multiplayer, you should have all of the left skills to maximize team benefits, as it's more important to keep everyone alive than try to benefit yourself. It's usually why I hate it when I see a medic running acidic rounds.

 

[Gladius]

Acidic rounds are simply screwing everyone who actually aims his shots. Besides that I just don't agree that there is that universally valid playstyle concept that some build has 100% always like someone is propagating here. If your thing is to carry baddies that don't know how to evade and block/parry, then that damage resistance boost might suit you. But when you play with a somewhat competent team, that doesn't have to rely on a facetanking doorzerk with pocketmedic up his behind and demo spam on top of that, then you won't need to max out the left side skills. "Focus injection" is another skill on the left side, I would personally rather not use, because I'm not into that running around like headless chickens playstyle. If you like to kite, then fine, this is for you. But don't assume that there is nothing existing besides pub hell derp playstyle.