Xbow - is this the final form?

[infntnub]

I was curious what the board regulars thought in regards to this.

Other classes, for the most part, seem to have at least a legit 2 options as their "end game" weapon.

Support - AA12 or DBS (or both)
Mando - Stoner or Scar
Medic - AR or Shottie
Slinger - Handcannons or Magnums

You get the point.

The gap between the railgun and the bow for Sharpie seems too drastic in present state. When I take the bow it's not usually for the intended purpose - I fire from the hip and take out groups of trash heh. While this fun and what not, it leaves me really missing the feel of the weapon being a "big game hunter". Can I still take out Scrakes? Sure. Do I want to when it takes 6 (or more) headshots? Not usually. For the record, I say 6 or more shots since my aim isn't always that great lol.

I know there are talks of balance efforts coming for Survivalist and Medic. Has anyone seen anything indicating the Sharpie may be receiving some attention afterward? Or at least maybe the bow?

 

[Azukki]

Yeah, it's a bit of a disappointment when you use it for what you'd expect a single shot sharp weapon to be good at: sc/fp heads. It can 3-shot them, so the performance potential as-is might be adequate, but some of the mechanics of it can make it pretty inconvenient and unappealing.
--Lag problems are pretty minimal with usual bullets in KF2, but it seems projectiles like xbow bolts (and demo 40mm/RPGs) aren't handled as well when you're laggy. Lag seems to inconsistently affect how much I need to lead my target with projectile weapons, and sometimes they even seem to shoot in the direction I was aiming not when I fired, but a while before that.
--Stunning big zeds is supposed to be a big appeal for the xbow, but the stun mechanics are so iffy now in KF2, and a failed stun means a rage, so that selling point somewhat falls flat.
--The scope's magnification is excessive for how fast and close the shooting in KF2 is at higher difficulties on usual maps, so that's often a hindrance. The game's performance may take a hit at the moment that it starts rendering that magnification on some settings/machines, so that can further make the scope unappealing.


It can be fun and useful as-is, if you play to the strengths of its penetration, bolt recovery, and decent base damage, by shooting low into lines of trash/medium zeds in a spot where you can recover all of your bolts occasionally. But that use makes it almost play like a support weapon, and probably shouldn't be the sharpshooter's tier 2's primary role.

For two endgame main weapon options for sharp, we already have that without the xbow being relevant: The versatile M14, or the scrake-annihilating railgun.

 

[Pavlov's Dog]

I'm too used to the KF1 crossbow to be honest. I don't know that I would say KF2's crossbow is bad - it seems to do alright when I do get around to using it, but I'm too used to that KF1 powah. The medic SMG is more of a standout to me in terms of guns that are "underwhelming."

 

[infntnub]

It can be fun and useful as-is, if you play to the strengths of its penetration, bolt recovery, and decent base damage, by shooting low into lines of trash/medium zeds in a spot where you can recover all of your bolts occasionally. But that use makes it almost play like a support weapon, and probably shouldn't be the sharpshooter's tier 2's primary role.

For two endgame main weapon options for sharp, we already have that without the xbow being relevant: The versatile M14, or the scrake-annihilating railgun.

Yeah - that's pretty much how I end up using it 90% of the time. The ammo recovery potential + penetration are the biggest benefits of using it. That just seems weird to say though considering it's a Sharpshooter weapon (like you said, that almost sounds like a Support weapon).

The point about the M14 is valid. Perhaps TWI buffed that up enough to offset the "blah" nature of the bow?

Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy using the bow. It's just not what I had hoped it would be..

I'm too used to the KF1 crossbow to be honest. I don't know that I would say KF2's crossbow is bad - it seems to do alright when I do get around to using it, but I'm too used to that KF1 powah. The medic SMG is more of a standout to me in terms of guns that are "underwhelming."

That is a large part of it. The bar was set very high in terms of expectations coming from the first game, but you're right.. it does alright overall. One thing I do like is the reload speed of the bolts. That does seem a bit faster than the first game. So that's a plus I suppose.

 

[Gladius]

The railgun has taken the place of the overpowered scrub cannon that is the xbow in KF1. And one no skill one-click weapon is enough for KF2 sharps. New xbow is fine as it is.

 

[imnrk]

The railgun has taken the place of the overpowered scrub cannon that is the xbow in KF1. And one no skill one-click weapon is enough for KF2 sharps. New xbow is fine as it is.

While I agree the railgun is very easy to use effectively, calling it a "scrub cannon" is a bit harsh.

That being said, I also agree that the crossbow was plain broken in the first game, and it has a new, perfectly viable niche right now. The Crossbow isn't really meant to be a fleshpound/scrake killer, it's kind of an all-purpose weapon, and it's one of the most ammo efficient of all of Sharpshooter's weapons. Being able to kill multiple clots with one shot, kill a husk in one shot, and pitch into big zeds while sometimes stunning them, all while being able to carry lots of ammo/pick up fired bolts, all make the crossbow to be a great weapon for general use.

 

[s5yn3t]

While I agree the railgun is very easy to use effectively, calling it a "scrub cannon" is a bit harsh.

That being said, I also agree that the crossbow was plain broken in the first game, and it has a new, perfectly viable niche right now. The Crossbow isn't really meant to be a fleshpound/scrake killer, it's kind of an all-purpose weapon, and it's one of the most ammo efficient of all of Sharpshooter's weapons. Being able to kill multiple clots with one shot, kill a husk in one shot, and pitch into big zeds while sometimes stunning them, all while being able to carry lots of ammo/pick up fired bolts, all make the crossbow to be a great weapon for general use.

Actually the stun mechanic of crossbow is broken since it doesn't reliably stun scrakes while they are in passive mode, its when they're raged does the stun magically work...

 

[Gladius]

While I agree the railgun is very easy to use effectively, calling it a "scrub cannon" is a bit harsh.

Taking scrakes out of the game with one click is lame. Makes the game boring. This is legetimate for players that struggle on the difficulty they chose but when you have a team that actually works together and gunslingers, mandos etc. that want to take scrakes, then you might understand why the anti fun scrub cannon is not welcomed by everyone.

 

[Gladius]

Actually the stun mechanic of crossbow is broken since it doesn't reliably stun scrakes

It does reliably stun if you know how. The problem is that the scrake is performing a block that isn't actually played by the animation. This block will be triggered when you aim "too long" at the scrake. So you either have to shoot very soon after aiming or wait like 2 seconds. The problem is that other players can also trigger that block, without you noticing it.

 

[Bluntman420]

Taking scrakes out of the game with one click is lame. Makes the game boring. This is legetimate for players that struggle on the difficulty they chose but when you have a team that actually works together and gunslingers, mandos etc. that want to take scrakes, then you might understand why the anti fun scrub cannon is not welcomed by everyone.

I get what you mean. Although commandos should not be taking scrakes imo. Depending on the map, there's usually plenty of scrakes and fleshpounds to kill for others on the team. I actually like it when we get more than 6 people, it makes sharp have to shoot a scrake twice(w/ rail) rather than once. In that case I usually give em a nice headshot and my teammates finish em off.

On the xbow, I think it's fine. (I won't be heartbroken if it gets better ) It deals a good amount of base damage. It does stun reliably, especially when using the stun perk. You gotta hit em in the head though and they can't be blocking. The problem with he xbow and big zed hunting is that it's slow so you need people at your back or you can get into some big trouble.

If you want a different big zed hunting load out with out the rail or xbow, go for the EBR+Centerfire. The Centerfire is a godlike killing machine I love it. Use cryonades when needed, they're extremely useful and if you have a demo or ammo boxes near you even better. EBR kills big zeds better than people think too. Use Rack Em Up+Stun Power perk and it's really efficient.

 

[Zidious G]

Railgun seems bugged to me. It's supposed to take out a Scrake with one headshot on HoE when you use all damagebonus skills like stability, etc (says so on the wiki), but it doesn't always do that. I don't understand what's wrong. I make sure I sit still, crouched and all that when I shoot a walking Scrake but I still have to shoot a second shot with LBR sometimes.

 

[infntnub]

Just to clarify - I never stated I felt the bow is broken. I just wondered what the board regulars felt in regards to whether or not it should remain in its current state. It's still a lot of fun to use (even off perk).

 

[Gladius]

Although commandos should not be taking scrakes imo.

Why not?

http://sendvid.com/461a4mql

 

[Pavlov's Dog]

Although commandos should not be taking scrakes imo... it makes sharp have to shoot a scrake twice(w/ rail) rather than once...

On the xbow, I think it's fine. (I won't be heartbroken if it gets better )

Commando is a perfectly legitimate scrake killer. It is not the best, but it is by no means bad. SCAR will get you more than halfway, and if you have stumble perk and good aim you have time to reload and finish the scrake solo. Otherwise you just switch to your secondary and kill it even quicker. That said, if a sharpshooter or another scrake-killer class is out on the field, I would wait to let them engage the scrake if I were a commando.

As a sharpshooter, you can start by shooting the scrake once with the centerfire and then switch to railgun and decap it. 1 centerfire bullet + 1 railgun bullet is better than 2 rail bullets or hoping teammates in a pub game will finish the scrake off. If you can coordinate with your team, then that's very effective. You can bring scrakes within one railgun headshot and still avoid raging by starting with the lever action or the 9mm as well, but I forget the shot counts. I like to solo kill scrakes and fleshpounds as sharpshooter, because most pub players are just looking to have fun and rarely ever look to coordinate.

Also, good summation of the xbow in KF2. I feel the same way. It is definitely good, but if it gets a boost I'd be happy.

 

[Bluntman420]

Why not?

http://sendvid.com/461a4mql

Most people cannot aim like this in a chaotic environment of a regular map, so I'd prefer most commandos to leave big zeds alone. Granted if you can aim like this and kill scrakes this fast outside of a test map be my guest, I'm not gonna complain. I'll only complain if they fail and bring a chainsaw up my ass hehe.

 

[Pavlov's Dog]

Bluntman420 - It really isn't that difficult. The quality of aim is not what separates good commandos from bad commandos. The scrake will run at you in a straight line. If you give it enough space and make the minimal aim adjustment once it starts sprinting, you have an excellent chance of killing it before it can have any effect. Players usually screw up in one of two ways (neither having anything to do with their ability to aim):

(1) A commando will engage a scrake when it is too close. The scrake will begin sprinting and get close enough to do a lunge attack. Most players will start running and usually will not be hit, but now it is much more difficult to resume firing at the head. The scrake's lunge attack involves a lot of head movement, making it very hard to hit with headshots. Once players learn the correct distance from which to kill the scrake before it can make that lunge, they will be much more successful.

(2) The other mistake a lot of players make, regardless of class, is ignorance of their surroundings. The best players will know what is around them as often as possible - enemies still alive on the field, newly spawned hordes, big zeds, teammates, weapon/ammo drops, etc. If a commando maintains awareness of his surroundings and sees that there is no immediate threat around him/her, he can safely engage the scrake and kill it. So many players, regardless of class, engage big zeds while the bloat/double siren/clot horde sneaks up behind them (also inb4 crawler spam). They die because they try to run from the scrake or FP and collide with a zed or horde they were not aware of.

If you follow these two basic rules as commando, you will never have trouble killing scrakes in-server - unless you do something stupid like start a fight without full magazines. It should go without saying that, if you're about to fight a scrake, you've already done the basics like reload all your weapons and heal up to full. Now go forth and kill scrakes. You can do it, we believe in you.

 

[Gladius]

The problem are the other players in the team. Practically you won't always be able to exactly control how you engage a SC/FP. In bad random teams you have people around that don't pay attention to what you are intending to do or simply don't care. They make bad pathing, switch the aggro and use you as a meatshield for their own incompetence. Looking at you demo...

 

[HeatSurge]

Playing ss is hard enough in this game on higher difficulties.

Railgun is what xbow was in kf1, it's pretty much precisely the same weapon (1 hit scrakes and faps on <=hard, 2 hit scrakes on >= suicidal).

Xbow was maybe a little powerful in kf1. People who are upset about it make me laugh though. You need a class to kill sc/fp effectively. If you want a næb class, demo is surely it. Or I guess you mean berserk maybe, that's the current meta I guess - berserker that carries the entire team, a one-size-fits-all class that is required on every sui+ team and you die without it.

Maybe that's what you like. I do not.

Anyway, xbow must be buffed in KF2. Railgun is maybe fine as is. I would make xbow 2-shot kill for scrakes on hard and 3-shot for faps on hard. Maybe 3/4 for sui and HOE.

Right now, it's pretty pathetic. You might as well shoot with a centerfire or a M14 since you're expected to "rapid fire" to take a scrake/fp down with a supposed-to-be-scoped weapon which is the xbow... it's a pretty tall order considering the new "cover my head" mechanics that sc/fp do when charging, as well as in general the far more variable head movement compared to KF1, especially if the sc/fp is fighting your teammates.

So in KF2, not only is the xbow ****, but every other specimen is much more difficult than in KF1, and sc/fp obscure their heads as they charge towards you.

I take the xbow for lelz, although I don't buy ammo for it and replace it with a railgun ASAP.

 

[Gladius]

Anyway, xbow must be buffed in KF2. Railgun is maybe fine as is. I would make xbow 2-shot kill for scrakes on hard and 3-shot for faps on hard. Maybe 3/4 for sui and HOE.

Calling fleshpounds "faps" is making me cringe.

The xbow can already kill 6pHoE Scrakes in 3 hits. If you ask for more, you ask for 2 hits and that is ridiculous.

 

[mrnok14l]

I was curious what the board regulars thought in regards to this.

Other classes, for the most part, seem to have at least a legit 2 options as their "end game" weapon.

Xbow is pretty much all about that stun power and ammo recyclability as of now, which makes it an efficient must-have option when playing as a supportive Sharpshooter on the team when you already have teammate(s) to take care of large Zeds reliably. That said, Xbow definitely is a legit tier-2 option to stick with over the course of the game where one adopt such playstyle.

If you do the math, you should also found it quite (if not indeed) OP stat-wise, for being able to deal half as much damage as the Railgun with additional stun power and the ability to recycle ammo - all at that level of cost.

Practically speaking, there actually has been a couple of time where me and my teammates died a couple of times too many during earlier waves, so I had to exploit upon its ammo recyclability to get back into the game while being contributive as we move into later waves. If I must recall how it went honestly, I'd say it went unfairly effective relative to the options available to other perks.