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DEMOLITIONIST overpowered with explosive IMPACTS not dealing any self damage?

TacticalSpy

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Jan 14, 2017
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The most likely best weapon of the game has such an unfair advantage, the RPG-7. Demolitionists are also doing this with the M79.

Quote: Weakness of Demolitionist

- Several Demolitionist weapons will not detonate if they hit a target at close range, inflicting damage to the Zed struck but not exploding. Due to the minimum range on some of their weapons, a low rate of fire, and a limited supply of ammunition, the Demolitionist is vulnerable in close quarters. The Demolitionist must rely on the rest of your squad to keep the Zeds at bay so he can place his explosives for maximum effectiveness. Also siren screams will destroy explosives, so against sirens Demolitionists must time their shots for when the siren is not screaming, or rely on a Firebug to keep her occupied. Scrakes are resistant to explosives and should be avoided at all costs. -
  • So explosives like RPG-7 and M79 deal full damage at close range to single targets if they don't detonate. That's too good to deal with a single FP/Scrake.
  • Most of us would use the skill against Siren's scream (Sonic Resistant Rounds).
  • M79 and RPG-7 at full ammo is not a weakness for "a limited supply of ammunation", if you're able to find some ammunation boxes.
  • Scrakes have a unique weakness against the RPG-7.


Conclusion: The Demolitionist has almost no weakness but insane strengths. It's just about the low rate of fire, but in a good team that's no deadly weakness.
 
-RPG and M79 have an impact and explosive part in their damage, if they fail to explode, only the impact damage is used in the calculation...I do agree with the fact that the impact damage numbers are on the high end, and the RPG in particular gets a odd benifit versus the scrake.
-the sirens scream protection is pretty much a must have, also because the other skill is one of the few if not only skills in the game that actually has a downside to picking it (fragmentation rounds reduces the splash damage of all explosive weapons)
-ammunition is relatively cheap and for most classes abundant enough, demo is...like all other classes...capable of spamming it. I do have to note though that having a class balanced around ammo capacity is a recipe for balance problems, as lower ammo counts will have to be offset with the potential of the weapon.
-yeah that is something that always felt off for me, it is the only mob in the game that has the health and resists to be a real pain against explosive heavy teams...yet it comes with a weakness (and not a small one either it is a bloody X4 multiplier) against the top explosive weapons impact damage, and the impact damage of an RPG is also insanely high to boot (150 pionts, on par with a shotgun blast)
 
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oldmidget;n2293868 said:
yea no, demo need at least that. your team wont always be there to help you out.

The Demolitionist has enough fair strengths. He can keep distance between himself and his targets and kill a group of zeds with a single shot of the RPG-7. His role is to stay in the back of the squad to avoid any possible danger. As long as you don't play solo, you can always use your team as advantage.

You might be someone who never wants to say goodbye to an old style. It's because you decided quickly and responded with a short comment even if you intend to write quality-posts overall.
 
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It sounds like you play normal and hard all the time and complain that a higher level demo joins in your game and juat gets all the kills.

On sui and hoe his power and ammo count is fine (you can even run out of explosives on hoe without a box to be seen tbh)
and at close range you will have problems surviving as using m79 will kill only one target and you will have to deal with long reload, unless you use m16.

Demo is setup almost good, pick group of zeds from afar or provide air to ground cover for teammates if you have a high ground and deal with fleshpounds. Rpg's high impact bonus on scrakes is great on assisting with scrakes (as long as you can hit the head) direct body impact will just rage him up quicker than a designated class will have time to score headshots to kill it or soften him up real good to finish it up.
 
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s5yn3t;n2293900 said:
It sounds like you play normal and hard all the time and complain that a higher level demo joins in your game and juat gets all the kills.

On sui and hoe his power and ammo count is fine (you can even run out of explosives on hoe without a box to be seen tbh)
and at close range you will have problems surviving as using m79 will kill only one target and you will have to deal with long reload, unless you use m16.

Demo is setup almost good, pick group of zeds from afar or provide air to ground cover for teammates if you have a high ground and deal with fleshpounds. Rpg's high impact bonus on scrakes is great on assisting with scrakes (as long as you can hit the head) direct body impact will just rage him up quicker than a designated class will have time to score headshots to kill it or soften him up real good to finish it up.

there is one thing I am wondering about...why does the demo get a 4X multiplier on the RPG impact damage when it hits a scrake, that is the one thing about the demo that made 0 sense to me to this day. In my oppinion this exception to the rule makes no sense.
 
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conductiv;n2293904 said:
there is one thing I am wondering about...why does the demo get a 4X multiplier on the RPG impact damage when it hits a scrake, that is the one thing about the demo that made 0 sense to me to this day. In my oppinion this exception to the rule makes no sense.

Because of a big ballistic object flying at high speed towards the face?
+ Scrake has explosive resistance so rpg just gets compinsated with its ballistic damage..
And its not like rpg becomes powerhouse of killing scrakes when you still need 3-4 shots to kill it if you don't hit a head (when having rpg offperk)
And if on perk you still need to hit the head to leverage 50% more dmg from a skill
 
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s5yn3t;n2293945 said:
Because of a big ballistic object flying at high speed towards the face?
+ Scrake has explosive resistance so rpg just gets compinsated with its ballistic damage..
And its not like rpg becomes powerhouse of killing scrakes when you still need 3-4 shots to kill it if you don't hit a head (when having rpg offperk)
And if on perk you still need to hit the head to leverage 50% more dmg from a skill

That doesn't answer the question, you are telling me why the RPG isn't the most OP weapon by claiming that, if you fail to aim for the head, it will still take a few shots to down the scrake...(a whopping 4 no less) and that the weapon needs compensation for the scrake because it deals explosive damage, the latter is close to the question, but fails to answer the why, no other weapon gets that compensation...what makes the RPG special in that regard. aka why does it need these training wheels

it is a big blunt object flying at subsonic speeds and since it didn't detonate it should bounce off as if it hit a rubber wall...That really isn't a reason to give it a whopping 4X multiplier, maybe a reason to give it 150 impact damage...but even then 150 damage is comparable to a point blank shotgun blast. do keep in mind that if the rocket does not explode the whole weapon is basically a big spudgun.
 
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conductiv;n2293976 said:
That doesn't answer the question, you are telling me why the RPG isn't the most OP weapon by claiming that, if you fail to aim for the head, it will still take a few shots to down the scrake...(a whopping 4 no less) and that the weapon needs compensation for the scrake because it deals explosive damage, the latter is close to the question, but fails to answer the why, no other weapon gets that compensation...what makes the RPG special in that regard. aka why does it need these training wheels

it is a big blunt object flying at subsonic speeds and since it didn't detonate it should bounce off as if it hit a rubber wall...That really isn't a reason to give it a whopping 4X multiplier, maybe a reason to give it 150 impact damage...but even then 150 damage is comparable to a point blank shotgun blast. do keep in mind that if the rocket does not explode the whole weapon is basically a big spudgun.

ever been hit in the face ny a 4lb spud traveling at 500mph? it will decapitate you...easily.. the amount of kinetic energy in a rpg projectile is HUGE, many many times even a 50cal BMG.
 
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Buzzkillinton;n2293997 said:
evee been hit in the face ny a 4lb spud travelli g at 500mph? it will decapitate you...easily.. the amount of kineric energy in a rpg priectile is HUGE, many many times even a 50cal BMG.

well it isn't many times larger then a .50 BMG, but very close to equal..keep in mind we are talking launch charge here...not when the rocket kicks in. this is because the rocket of the RPG is between 40 and 100 times heavier then a 50 cal. oh and I do agree spud-guns pack a hell of a punch and are more then able to kill a man but that wasn't really what I was going for

but again this is besides the point, why the hell does it need that multiplier against the scrake...if it was just because its a very effective spudgun it would have that multiplier against all enemies
 
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But a lot of the time, I have to take a few seconds to aim for the scrake and a lot of the time stalkers and crawlers start shoving me aside, disrupting my aim and causing trouble. Demo is def the designated fleshpound killer (on 6p suicidal I can solo a FP with one grenade + 2 quick rpg shots with the right perk skills). I used to stay away from scrakes until I saw on youtube that rog headshots are the key to beating them.
 
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  • Pretty sure you wouldn't be able to use a RPG for much else other than scrakes if you decided to go after them due to ammo limitations.
  • Like was mentioned before if demo had no way of dealing with scrakes it would be an extremely under-used perk. Generally every perk has some way of dealing with every zed without requiring full ammo just to get enough damage to kill it.
  • It's not easy getting two(+?) headshots per scrake with all the other chaos a game typically has going on.
  • RPG has limited splash damage range and instead focuses on impact damage/impact explosions compared to other explosives. Would feel extremely lame(remember gun feel is important to the devs) for such a weapon to require 6+ impact headshots to drop a single zed, especially considering it has a magazine size of 1 and limited reserve ammo.
  • Limited splash damage range means you aren't clearing zeds around the scrake out, which can mean they'll interrupt your "combo".
  • Knockdown usually forces the player to wait quite a while before the second shot can be lined up, during which many things can interrupt the "combo".
  • Correct me if I'm wrong but after the first successful headshot the scrake is going to rage and good luck hitting another headshot if he decides to go tornado chainsaw massacre.

Some of the points might have overlap but it's late and I don't particularly care to sort them out.
 
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conductiv;n2294008 said:
well it isn't many times larger then a .50 BMG, but very close to equal..keep in mind we are talking launch charge here...not when the rocket kicks in. this is because the rocket of the RPG is between 40 and 100 times heavier then a 50 cal. oh and I do agree spud-guns pack a hell of a punch and are more then able to kill a man but that wasn't really what I was going for

but again this is besides the point, why the hell does it need that multiplier against the scrake...if it was just because its a very effective spudgun it would have that multiplier against all enemies

Ok, the launch velocity is about 330mph, and the flight velocity is about 670mph..the projectile weight is between 4-10lb depending on the type. the in-game visual model of the projectile looks like the classic PG7 HEAT warhead, so a 4lb projectile moving at 330mph is about 18,000 ft lbs of energy. The RPG in the game does not have a boost phase for physics (yes it has an minimum arm range), so lets say its moving at its constant flight velocity. that yields a muzzle energy of approximately 91,000 ft lbs. So, for physics purposes in this game, the RPG impact should be monstrous.

The 50bmg produces a muzzle energy range of 11-15,000lbs. So best case BMG vs worst case RPG they are similar in ME, but only if the boost velocity were modeled in the game physics, otherwise the RPG impact is insane. (a typical 20mm "vulcan" cannon round has about 41k ftlbs for comparison)..ouch.
 
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pie1055;n2294128 said:
  • Pretty sure you wouldn't be able to use a RPG for much else other than scrakes if you decided to go after them due to ammo limitations.
  • Like was mentioned before if demo had no way of dealing with scrakes it would be an extremely under-used perk. Generally every perk has some way of dealing with every zed without requiring full ammo just to get enough damage to kill it.
  • It's not easy getting two(+?) headshots per scrake with all the other chaos a game typically has going on.
  • RPG has limited splash damage range and instead focuses on impact damage/impact explosions compared to other explosives. Would feel extremely lame(remember gun feel is important to the devs) for such a weapon to require 6+ impact headshots to drop a single zed, especially considering it has a magazine size of 1 and limited reserve ammo.
  • Limited splash damage range means you aren't clearing zeds around the scrake out, which can mean they'll interrupt your "combo".
  • Knockdown usually forces the player to wait quite a while before the second shot can be lined up, during which many things can interrupt the "combo".
  • Correct me if I'm wrong but after the first successful headshot the scrake is going to rage and good luck hitting another headshot if he decides to go tornado chainsaw massacre.

Some of the points might have overlap but it's late and I don't particularly care to sort them out.

- if a unit is resistant to your damage, it would be prudent not to go for them unless you have to. an example here is a firebug trying to burn down a scrake with the flamethrower. it will take either a lot of time or a lot of ammo to do so and is generally ill advised.
- I haven't seen this mentioned before in this thread, I have seen people say that the RPG even when it doesn't explode it should hit pretty dahm hard (they are right here, but that doesn't explain the multiplier for the scrake specifically) and I have seen people say that it is fun decapping scrakes with the RPG..an important part of the game, but less in line with the actual question.
-headshots are common on all ballistic classes, and many of them have to score more then 2 on the scrake to down it. the only 1 that can reliably 1-shot the scrake with a single HS on all difficulties and standard player counts is the railgun-full-left-sharpshooter. relative to classes that have to score 8+ HS for a down, the RPG is very easy to use in this capacity.
-this particular zed is the only explosive resistant non-boss zed that has the HP to resist a single RPG, it is also the only zed in the game that gets a X4 multiplier on impact damage dealt by the top explosive weapon. effectively bypassing its resistance all-together, no other class or weapon gets this benefit regardless of relevant weapon feel. for example the railgun doesn't get a X4 multiplier on a FP head, despite the FP being 50% resistant to ballistic fire. and the rail is heavier, has no splash and has a similar amount of ammunition.
-not particularity uncommon for people to first have to dedicate effort to clear trash before dealing with a big zed, and most of them have no splash atoll.
-if the RPG knocks down the target, you crowd controlled it...the demo has several skills to boost this effect in his weapons, for the class this is set up like a boon, not a negative despite that fact that its hard to line up good shots on downed targets.
-many people do it, so do I with many weapons...including but not limited to the RPG. again landing multiple headshots on a scrake...raging or not...is a common feature for almost every ballistic class. it is just that none of the used weapons get a benifit to deal with the class they are weak against.

Ok, the launch velocity is about 330mph, and the flight velocity is about 670mph..the projectile weight is between 4-10lb depending on the type. the in-game visual model of the projectile looks like the classic PG7 HEAT warhead, so a 4lb projectile moving at 330mph is about 18,000 ft lbs of energy. The RPG in the game does not have a boost phase for physics (yes it has an minimum arm range), so lets say its moving at its constant flight velocity. that yields a muzzle energy of approximately 91,000 ft lbs. So, for physics purposes in this game, the RPG impact should be monstrous.

The 50bmg produces a muzzle energy range of 11-15,000lbs. So best case BMG vs worst case RPG they are similar in ME, but only if the boost velocity were modeled in the game physics, otherwise the RPG impact is insane. (a typical 20mm "vulcan" cannon round has about 41k ftlbs for comparison)..ouch.

yes it hits bloody hard, but why does it get that multiplier on the scrake exclusively.
 
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Yeah demo is so overpowered man. One time I was going to last hit Hans with my last RPG round and a clot turned me around right when I shot and it DIDNT KILL ME. I was like phew, man I was about to be a gonner if my rocket exploded. My 40% self explosion resistance wouldnt have done a thing at full health against my rocket. Thankfully my boy hans lived since he didnt get hit by the explosion with no visible health bar. All thanks to tripwire making demo so overpowered because they dont suicide bomb every 10 seconds. Unfortunately hans didnt appreciate the mercy the dud gave him and how overpowered I was being when I wasted my rpg on a clot which did not kill the 1 hp hans, and was then one shot because my last rocket overpoweredly didnt kill him.
 
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PurpleFanta;n2294167 said:
Yeah demo is so overpowered man. One time I was going to last hit Hans with my last RPG round and a clot turned me around right when I shot and it DIDNT KILL ME. I was like phew, man I was about to be a gonner if my rocket exploded. My 40% self explosion resistance wouldnt have done a thing at full health against my rocket. Thankfully my boy hans lived since he didnt get hit by the explosion with no visible health bar. All thanks to tripwire making demo so overpowered because they dont suicide bomb every 10 seconds. Unfortunately hans didnt appreciate the mercy the dud gave him and how overpowered I was being when I wasted my rpg on a clot which did not kill the 1 hp hans, and was then one shot because my last rocket overpoweredly didnt kill him.

all hail the rocket propelled clot that saved 1HP hans from slightly suicidal demo...all hail tripwire for giving the RPG the ability to convey this mode of travel to the clot rather then joining them together in the afterlife via the explosion of relief.

Hans was jealous that he didn't get the same opportunity as the clot, and had to be told in counselling that the opportunity on its own is relatively rare..as demo's tend to magically explode after 10 seconds.
 
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