Let's talk Versus!

[Fok]

I have the sense that Versus mode will never works ok in this game. It would be better to just add a PvP mode with team vs team, last man standing and such common sub-modes, which is a tested and fun recipe. The different part on this, would be the existence of zeds (controlled by the computer AI) attacking each team and each player, making the things even harder. So players should kill each other, but u still could see 2 enemies running side by side, trying to kill a FP in cooperation (for both survive), and after that trying to kill each other again. I know isnt such game, but any other mode except survival is alternative option for this game anyway.

 

[OmniXVII]

After playing this mode for awhile, I have a few simple suggestions to make it way more enjoyable and balanced. I know most players don't even care about the mode, but I feel Versus has potential to be a fun mode for players to enjoy as a break from the base game. In its current state, Versus mode is a joke game-mode that rewards players for picking overpowered perks that require little skill to use. Here are my suggestions:

1. Remove level 25 Zed-time perks from the mode.

This game mode is just filled with level 25 Berzerkers running around in real time being untouchable gods. Teams can win just by getting lucky with Zed-time when fighting Fleshpounds and Scrakes, using their level 25 perks to annihilate everything. One team may get wiped by Scrakes because Zed-time didn't activate, while other teams win entirely off of a lucky Zed-time that allow perks like SWAT and Berzerker to chew up everything. Being a Zed stuck in slow-motion while players gain a huge upper-hand with no counterplay is a ridiculously anti-fun game mechanic.

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2. Perks need to be specifically balanced for Versus.

Perks like Berzerker, Firebug, and (maybe) Field Medic need to be nerfed due to the high amount of damage, tanking and healing they can do with so little skill required on the player's part. Precision Perks like Commando, Gunslinger, and Sharpshooter are woefully under-powered in contrast. They do not posses enough damage to effectively deal with the trash player Zeds, despite being the high skill perks. Precision classes are not rewarded enough for having the skill to aim at enemies. Player Zeds are always spastically jumping and dodging around, so the shots precision classes can get in are not enough to make up for how hard it is to kill enemy Zeds. Simply put: Firebug, Berzerker, and Medic need nerfs, precision classes need slight buffs.

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3. All perks players use in Versus should be automatically set to level 25 for ease of balance.

So many times games are decided entirely because one team is filled with level 25's, while the other team has level 0-10's. Versus shouldn't be a place where people come to level their perks, it should be a for-fun game mode where any perk you chose will be set to level 25 to make a team's strength more consistent. This way Tripwire can more easily balance Versus without having to take in the impossible variable of players being anywhere from level 0-25.

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And that's all I think Versus mode needs! These 3 simple changes can drastically change how this game-mode is played and viewed by the community. Versus doesn't need to be perfectly balanced to be fun, it just needs to be kinda balanced. Nobody is expecting a perfect Versus mode, but the current state in which it is played is way out of whack. The game mode is fun, it has potential, all it needs is a little tweaking and it can become a great way for players to take a break from the base game and engage in some fun PvP. Tripwire already invested a huge portion of development time creating Versus, might as well make it good. Any other suggestions and discussion you guys have would be great as well.

 

[Fwufikins]

You know I thought is never play Versus mode in this game just because I've been falling out of love with competitive multiplayer. Been focused on single player and co-op for a while. But I decided to give the mode a try and I gotta say I think I really like it.

While it draws pretty clear inspiration from L4D VS mode, I like the way the Zed team controls a lot more in KF2. They move so fast and frantically, and the 3rd person view point affords you much better use of your controls I feel than the first person view does. It also allows you better target aquisition to peak around corners or get a wider field of view, which kinda helps simulate a sort of predatory sense in your player "character"

I will say though the 1st round is a bit of a crapshoot for Zed players since they only get trash zeds to control. Sure it's fair that they should have better gear against bigger zeds but it's annoying trying to run or sneak up to someone with a Chalk n' Burn or SMG only for them to sneeze on you and turn you into gibs.

It's when you get more powerful zeds like gorefasts and scrakes that the game picks up for both teams I feel. It starts feeling like a dual rather than just mobbing them and crossing your fingers. Getting a rally and clot grab is an inconvenience for them when surrounded by clots, but it's much more terrifying with a spinning gorefiend on their heels.

The netcode could use work, but I think I could fix that by just using server browser instead of matchmaking or narrowing my ping options in search. That being said, this sort of mode is one that really benefits from good matchmaking, almost more so than cooperative.

And as others have said, I almost wish there was more AI on the map at once because A)it would help cut back on delayed spawns looking for controllable zeds, and b)it gives the humans something to be worried about besides just other players.

The idea of an objective based mode could be really cool. Different maps could have different flavors of things to do. Maybe collectibles or area defence could be worked into it, forcing players to either explore or fortify. Though I think this idea shouldn't just be limited to VS.

All in all I think it's a cool mode.

 

[infntnub]

My main issue with this mode will be that I play KF2 to not deal with human enemies..

I have a handful of other games that fill that need when the mood strikes me; when it's time to kill zeds I just want to chill out with my music on and watch the gore paint my monitor.

Overall though I think the mode would have gotten much less "hate" had it been released AFTER an objective mode. The boards seemed (and still do) to have more players wanting their objective mode than this versus mode. Or maybe the versus mode lovers got quiet once it was actually released, lol.

Either way, I think the timing of its release really hurt the chances of it catching on and seeing steady play like Survival or Weekly mode.

I mean.. now with the dosh vault, Weekly is legit popular most nights. It was a brilliant move by TWI and now that mode is a significant part of the game, and will remain so.

For now, there's just not much of a place for Versus IMO. Even Daily Challenges cannot make me play it.

 

[Don Draper]

I like the mode, unfortnately i have not got to play it much due to the low player count.

The best bit is that the AI is no longer predictable, i love that more than anything. when playing real people as the AI changes the whole thing.
The lurking, waiting zig zagging, and if a team takes there time and communicates and mobs a single player.. they dead.

Its a shame it cant be incorporated into full games.

Everyone would admit the KF2 AI is predictable and boring once familiar with it... would be nice to see them do other things.

 

[skymadra]

Hey if anything Versus Mode isn't that bad. Its pretty fun if your playing with friends or playing you know. But lets be honest who dosent like being a FP!

 

[TheDmytrius]

I don't like this mode and I always skip daily events that concern Versus. The players-monsters just act inrealistically and leave no chance to players-humans. They always run, jump and deal much damage, and they also have more HP and NPC support. Do you enjoy shooting bloats that always run and throw up? Two skraces can kill the whole team. Crawlers easily dodge bullets from unskilled player. Once I saw an elite crawler jumped so high and landed right where my team was. Was that a glitch or not, I don't know, but I didn't like it.
The game is unstable at this mode. It just randomly crashes when it wants to, but it happens more often when you play as a monster.

 

[Shadaaaa]

Last time I tried versus was during the christmas update, but if I recall correctly it was mostly:

a) A team of level 10 or 15-ish people getting massacred by bullet sponge player zeds. In wave 1 or 2.
or
b) A team of level 21~25 berserkers, firebugs, and medics totally destroying the zeds, until the boss round

It would be ideal if you could balance every weapon, perk passives and skiils exclusive to PvP. Or make a new PvP-only map complete with objectives and stuff. But since that would require too much dev effort, Id Personally would suggest the following:
-Fix all perk level to 20. The level 25 zed-time skills are pretty OP in a PvP game.
-Disable some of the skills, such as zerkers skirmisher, firebugs bring the heat, ground fire, and heat wave, and all the left side skills of medic.
-Give free armor to humans every wave. Some perks like commando would have a better fighting chance, and still leave room for caution, as you cant replenish lost armor easily unlike health.
-Give zed players a overhead display like humans, thats visible beyond walls and with icons to show what zed they are. Its hard to coordinate an attack when you have no clue on where your teammates are.

At the very least, I think the perk level should be fixed for the ease of balancing.

Thats all I can come up with now, but there are still few other problems:
-Boss rounds are somewhat broken too. Namely Patty rushing in and firing off the rockets in point-blank range for easy insta-kills, and zerkers running away until patty bleeds out.
-High level players purposely joining the same team every game. Ive seen this happen quite a time, resulting in the above A(low level team) vs B(25 OP perk team) a common sight.
-Cheaters. I dont see much of them these days in the usual survival mode, but there was a guy with speed hack running ridiculously fast in versus game.

 

[MartinMasheen]

Zed difficulty should be adjusted to fit the Survivors' difficulty, honestly that's all that comes to mind when I think of this mode, but I'm well aware about how unbalanced it is. I think it would be fitting if a slightly outmatched game, which would automatically be 1 player at best due to the already present auto balancing, offers some kind of difficulty boost for the lacking team, but only to a small degree. A simple solution for difficulty would be to add Hard, Suicidal, and HoE with increasing Zed difficulty, so that the professional players can occupy themselves with something more serious while casual players can mess around on Normal or Hard (or Suicidal/HoE even, if that's what you consider "casual"). But the Zed abilities and such probably need some work as well, I can't say for sure

 

[Tony]

From my WoW experience it's not possible to balance pvp and pve together. Blizzard were struggling for years until they gave it up and made pvp talents and pvp stat presets. I think if you wanna balance versus you will have to make separate perk sets for versus.