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Upcoming Changes to Monetization - And Why We Are Making Them

nukemdukem3d;n2333870 said:
No offence flashn00b but looks like you have zero knowledge about game game development. Porting game to newer engine is a lot of work (read about duke nukem forever development) and the whole idea is pointless anyway (new engine doesn't make game magically look better). It would be 100 times smarter to just make KF3 with a lot of paid good looking cosmetics from the start.

I dunno, but if you look at games like Space Hulk Deathwing (A lot more going on in terms of visuals and enemy count) and SoulCalibur VI (Fighting games typically have more network issues than shooters*), I reckon there'd be some advantages in having a more expensive re-release of KF2 running on UE4 tbh. I understand that a change in game engine would be a large undertaking but when you consiider the current issues that plague KF2, i think it's reasonable to want a slightly more expensive edition of the game that doesn't require a custom low settings INI on a mid-to-high end PC.

*I actually have less issues with lag in SCVI than KF2 tbh. I'm not kidding when I say that KF2 running at all is an accomplishment when you consider the amount of bloat it's packed with.
 
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All I ask is that the Asian Playstation Network stores would update their DLC as fast as the Euro and U.S. ones. As it is, they update months after the initial release therefore I won't even be able to buy the guns for a long time even if I want to. And by the time they release it, I might have lost interest.
 
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I am inclined to agree that KF3 seems to require some consideration if KF2's economy is reaching equilibrium with the development cost, but of course that comes with its own set of costs and expectations and it's understandable why a financial decision had to be made.

Something else that could be considered, is adding a campaign DLC which would add a story mode, a map pack. some new characters and/or weapons-- much like what Vermintide 2 is doing with their "Winds of Magic" expansion. While I appreciate all the hardwork that the KF team has put into the free updates, I think a campaign DLC would justify itself better and also put the new KF2 mechanics to good use.

In that sense, the base game and maps are still available with the original purchase, but the campaign/story mode is justifiably another level of gameplay players can purchase.
 
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10 per weapon is a great deal in my opinion. You're only going to get those weapons that you really want, and try out the rest in multiplayer with other people who bought the other guns. That's a smart choice. Giving a few dollars for a weapon that's perfect for your favorite perk is something I see just about every serious player doing when this comes out. It reminds me of the first KF, which is great.
 
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TheAphabet;n2333892 said:
I am inclined to agree that KF3 seems to require some consideration if KF2's economy is reaching equilibrium with the development cost, but of course that comes with its own set of costs and expectations and it's understandable why a financial decision had to be made.

Something else that could be considered, is adding a campaign DLC which would add a story mode, a map pack. some new characters and/or weapons-- much like what Vermintide 2 is doing with their "Winds of Magic" expansion. While I appreciate all the hardwork that the KF team has put into the free updates, I think a campaign DLC would justify itself better and also put the new KF2 mechanics to good use.

In that sense, the base game and maps are still available with the original purchase, but the campaign/story mode is justifiably another level of gameplay players can purchase.

What I can't agree with is adding maps as paid DLC. That divides the players into groups that own and don't own certain map DLC. That's ridiculous. A campaign DLC would only make sense if it stayed in the spirit of KF, which is to say was completely coop from start to end to enjoy with friends, in which case you're still splitting the multiplayer playerbase into two. I don't see a point in making KF3 right now as KF2 has a lot of room to grow, and technology will surely evolve more to justify making a new game in the coming years (no point right now).
 
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HeatSurge;n2333866 said:
That's going to be $10 PER weapon? I thought it's $10 for both which is still pretty steep.

$10 per weapon is too much for me. I'm pretty sure I won't bother and will wait for possible sales, but maybe that's just me. I would buy on release day at $2.50 per weapon to support development. $10 is just too much IMO for what you get. I know it's not really "all you get" and it supports other work on KF2, but still.

If that's really what it takes as far as development time to make new weapons, I'd almost rather KF2 be put in "complete" status and "maintenance only" - perhaps with some small updates to make really good community maps official... And move on to KF3 or something.

Non-cosmetic-only DLC is kind of bad.

Kudos to making it "shared" with the server at least, it would've been way worse otherwise.

This still kind of existed before though, with the road redemption bat and the chivalry sword - but it was acceptable to me since it was just two weapons. Now that it's going to be EVERY new weapon, it's way more concerning.

I really agree with you on your point about KF2 being able to be on "complete" status. There are a ton of great maps and weapons already, and the seasonal events really aren't all that necessary. It would be perfectly fine to do as you say and put it on "maintenance" with some updates to make the best community maps into official ones.

I also find it hard to believe that they aren't making enough money off of the cosmetic bundles and Steam marketplace fees. I mean, I myself have invested quite a bit of money into my cosmetic outfits and weapon skins, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

I guess I just don't see why TWI feels that they have to keep updating and updating and adding new weapons and new zed skins and such. I mean, I'm sure they want to stay competitive in the game market, but imo the game has a really good balance already and probably shouldn't be messed with too much.

I am not too worried about there being some new weapons that are paid DLC, as I will probably just buy the few that I actually want to use for my favorite perks. I get that people are concerned, but I think there is a tendency in gaming communities to overreact about anything that could be labeled as "microtransactions." It's a shame that people have to "review bomb" games that have policies that they don't agree with. Reviews should be about gameplay, not about the economical decisions of the devs. If you like the game a lot, why wouldn't you be willing to pitch in and help the further development of it? Plus, even if a given player is unable to spend any actual money on the game, it sounds like the devs have that covered by making very sure to avoid giving the new weapons a "pay-to-win" balance.
 
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I feel the microtransactions that are currently in KF2 are missing a lot of potential for revenue, and the issue isn't with the items themselves. It's with the in-game store and inventory system.

The in-game store is a nightmare to navigate through and offers very poor previews of what you're buying. It's only capable of showing you 8 items at a time when the game has thousands. There's also no ability to organize or search through these items at all. Lastly I'd be a whole lot more interested in the items on the store if there was a 3D preview of what they looked like in-game, maybe even with the feature to play animations like a model viewer. Surely it wouldn't be difficult to render these cosmetics in a game that is already rendering them when you own them? Steam itself has proven what's possible by making the act of purchasing a product as expedient and painless as possible. Without steam most people would probably still be pirating PC games and/or PC probably wouldn't be considered a viable platform for game development at all.

The inventory system has its share of jank as well. The inventory does let you see 15 items at a time, but that comes with its own cost as well. Just like the shop there's no way to organize them- if I have two skins for my 1858 revolvers why is there no way to group them together? As it stands I have to look through every pistol weapon cosmetic and hope I don't miss one. And again, it'd be nice to see a 3D preview of these items without having to load a map. It would make them feel less meaningless and give me more of a reason to visit the shop- if I can better see how messed up a battle-scarred skin looks I would be more likely to look into the mint version on the store.

The detriments to these systems give me a stressful experience and encourage me to avoid interacting with them altogether.

It's my belief that if you improved the shop and inventory by "leveraging your business models" you would see a drastic increase in "strong engagement", "player retention" and "player investment potential". I don't really know what these words and phrases mean, but this Bobby Kotick guy keeps using them and he seems like he knows what he's doing.

For real though, if you guys made your microtransaction experience more enjoyable I'm pretty sure you'd see people using them more. I love my magician clot backpack and I wear it on every character but it was a pain in the ass to obtain and continues to be a pain to equip it due to there being no "backpack", "halloween", or even alphabetical slot to organize items by. As soon as I saw the christmas, cyber revolt, and summer versions I immediately avoided trying to get them due to the hassle I knew it would take.

TL;DR, If anyone from TWI is reading this I have three requests/suggestions for the betterment of the shop and inventory- sorting, searching, and 3D preview functions. If you're having problems with micros the usability of the shop is where I would look first, 'cause it's currently not great.
 
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pie1055;n2333906 said:
TL;DR, If anyone from TWI is reading this I have three requests/suggestions for the betterment of the shop and inventory- sorting, searching, and 3D preview functions. If you're having problems with micros the usability of the shop is where I would look first, 'cause it's currently not great.

The sorting abilities of the store and inventory could definitely use some work, like you say. I would love to be able to type the names of items to find them. I really wanted to be able to preview all the cosmetics before buying them, and thankfully I was able to find a mod on the Steam Workshop that does exactly that (It's Classic Mode mod, if you're interested, btw - it lets you equip any cosmetic in the game to your character just to play with it on that mod). I'm glad someone like you is actually proposing ideas for fixes and improvements, rather than the multitudes of crybabies who are like "OMG $10 for a DLC IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD!"
 
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pie1055;n2333906 said:
The in-game store is a nightmare to navigate through and offers very poor previews of what you're buying.

I was about to make a post about this in the ideas and suggestions but I guess it's not a new idea, +1
The store is just barely functional
Whole categories are missing, like the emotes section (you can only buy emotes from the market, what missed potential)
 
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This is just a shot in the dark but what of you added an in game item trading system for a small fee. Like say you get a gun skin from a crate youre not really into but a friend is, so you use a $2 trading ticket to give it to them instead of scrapping and telling them to get it themselves. In the process you could increase key and crate drops while putting trader tickets in the lower possible drop range. It could breathe at least some more value into the current system while also giving a small cash bump from those who buy the trader tickets directly.
 
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Copycat;n2333922 said:
Although I am not against paying for updates, I am definitely against continuing to pay for cosmetics if the updates are not going to be free. I hope that Tripwire reconsiders their decision not to phase out the Zedconomy, because my support and patronage for this game depends on it.

That's also a good point. If I end up paying for some guns (which I probably will, since I want this game to live on), I hope that we'll get a REAL REVAMP of the zedconomy. At the very least.

I always loot the same ****, which is getting tiresome. And since you need TEN pieces of scrap from the same quality, it takes forever to even get something worthwhile.

Same goes for the vault crates. I prestiged nearly all my perks, which gave me between 4 and 8 crates per perk... Yet, I ended up getting maybe five or six good items? And I'm not even saying that some pieces are ugly, it's just that I'm tired of getting the same face paints all the time.

Again, I don't expect to get three epic cosmetics per game... But at least make it worthwhile to spend time playing. Here, I really feel like I'm barely rewarded for playing often and/or for long period of time
 
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Copycat;n2333922 said:
Although I am not against paying for updates, I am definitely against continuing to pay for cosmetics if the updates are not going to be free. I hope that Tripwire reconsiders their decision not to phase out the Zedconomy, because my support and patronage for this game depends on it.

I'm curious, what would "phasing out" the Zedconomy mean? Are you talking about making all the cosmetics into cheaper bundles, or simply not having the crates and cosmetics available anymore? I would be very disappointed if they made all the rarer cosmetics into simple bundles, because I've spent a lot of time and money acquiring some of those on the Steam marketplace. I'm very proud of my outfits and gun skins in the game (I know, I'm weird) and would like for them to retain their value.

Aleflippy;n2333926 said:
That's also a good point. If I end up paying for some guns (which I probably will, since I want this game to live on), I hope that we'll get a REAL REVAMP of the zedconomy. At the very least.

I always loot the same ****, which is getting tiresome. And since you need TEN pieces of scrap from the same quality, it takes forever to even get something worthwhile.

Same goes for the vault crates. I prestiged nearly all my perks, which gave me between 4 and 8 crates per perk... Yet, I ended up getting maybe five or six good items? And I'm not even saying that some pieces are ugly, it's just that I'm tired of getting the same face paints all the time.

Again, I don't expect to get three epic cosmetics per game... But at least make it worthwhile to spend time playing. Here, I really feel like I'm barely rewarded for playing often and/or for long period of time

Yes, the system feels curiously like an F2P game, what with the slow trickle of content, the quarterly updates, and the repetitive rewards for playing every day or every 12 hours or whatever. Since we already paid for the game in the first place, I feel like there should be a little more...I don't know, polish, maybe, to the rewards system. I am at least glad that they have made the vault crates only require 2 materials to craft, rather than 10 like the other ones.
 
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GigaBowserX;n2333938 said:
I'm curious, what would "phasing out" the Zedconomy mean? Are you talking about making all the cosmetics into cheaper bundles, or simply not having the crates and cosmetics available anymore? I would be very disappointed if they made all the rarer cosmetics into simple bundles, because I've spent a lot of time and money acquiring some of those on the Steam marketplace. I'm very proud of my outfits and gun skins in the game (I know, I'm weird) and would like for them to retain their value
Phasing out means removing the monetary value of all cosmetics while making it easier to earn them by merely playing the game. I have also spent a hefty sum of money on cosmetics and I am proud of my outfits, however, I do not wish to continue doing so because the expense is no longer justified by the fact that it finances the free updates.

As for the monetary value of the cosmetics I already have, I do not mind if they lose their value because I do not trade cosmetics for profit, I trade them to get the cosmetics I want, and if they all become free, I will be able to get all the new cosmetics I want more easily, which I should, considering that there is no reason for them to have a price tag on them now that updates are not free.
 
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pie1055;n2333952 said:
Where are you getting your numbers? Steam says the current count is 4.3k and peaked at 5.9k today.

Also steam.
ILU7Kw5.gif


I almost had a heart attack, when later refreshed it showed 786 players, and then lowest 584.... was thinking that players really gone boycotting because i never seen the concurrent drop below 4k
 
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I've recommended this game to friends for years, because it had a good free DLC model, you shouldn't start charging for weapons after weapons have been added for free after all these years. It just feels bad, like the community is being betrayed bad. I guess i won't be recommending it to anyone else anymore, unless you revert your decision, this isn't a threat btw, i'm just putting it out there that i refuse to promote bad practices.

Overall it's very disappointing to hear this TWI as i held you in fairly high regard as far as monetization goes, but now it seems you've caught the plague of the gaming industry known as GREED, 10 dollars per weapon makes this very obvious and i find it disgusting. Oh well, i guess i shouldn't be to surprised, the games industry has gotten significantly worse in the last 10 years. Remember when EA used to not be greedy and made good games? I certainly do, i think it was before the 2010s.

What i'm trying to say is, TWI, you should be better then this, you should help fight the GREED not create more.


TL;DR - Monetizing guns for $10 each = bad, free guns = good.
 
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