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Twisted Christmas Beta Survey

Yoshiro

Senior Community Manager
Staff member
  • Oct 10, 2005
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    Hello everyone!

    First off, thank you to all those who have chosen to help us make a better final release by participating in the Twisted Christmas Beta! Now that you have had some time with the beta, please take to opportunity to let us know your thoughts by filling out our survey! You can find it
    "here".


    Once again, thank you for helping us, and if you run into any issues please be sure to let us know in the official bug forums.
     
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    I gave my two cents.


    Tommy gun needs more justice considering how famous it is. Needs an adjustment more than a straight buff or nerf. I think since IRL it shot at 600 rpm, it should do 60-65 damage offset by bad accuracy and a long reload. The weapon should feel both clunky and heavy hitting to feel unique, and inaccurate enough to consider other weapons.

    M32 feels really good, and it feels great on survivalist with the ZED time reload and bigger explosions. I feel like it makes the seeker six obsolete unless a player is a survivalist with the extra weight skill.

    Didn't try the fire axe. Love the Battle Axe, though. Please don't change it.

    If you guys keep adding in boss weapons. The Patty Minigun would be a fun tier 5 on swat if it had a heavy 'bullet hose' feel to it. And fleshpound gauntlet would be a hilarious weapon.

    I love the creative maps and personally would like to see a lovecraftian themed map or event. Or even make a series of objective maps that have an overarching story.

    Also would like to see faithful remakes of the classic KF1 maps.
     
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    Aleflippy;n2326656 said:
    Well... You did get specific on that one lol. But yeah, I gave my two cents. I hope it helps (and most importantly, I hope you read these ;-) )

    Darn! Hopes they read my serious reaction on "what would you expect from an update" - we keep talking for it for months, af. Me being Captain Obvious.

    I can't go into specific weapon details, damage, rate of fire, on and on... Sounds of Tommy Gun, again, jumped through the ninth floor window. Add more bang.
     
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    Yea... tried FireAxe. And, yea hear goes. What is the point in using melee weapon if you as a player [zerk but yea go ahead if you wish survivalist] get knockback so easily? I can lend 2 consecutive hits if all that i do is PARRY or try to land Heavy attack. Know why? I got throw back as pinball. You might consider it good , but trust me it is annoying. SO.... give some of the heavier melee weapons [or UPGRADED lower tiered] ability to at least reduced ammount of knockback. My 3 cents https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd....381/066F3D0A9272AEC54E74A20FE6D5C779E6F11681/
     
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    I just completed the survey. Gave extended feedback and critique on almost all sections. Primarily focused on the weapons. Still working on the 25 boss kill bit, so I haven't seen the Battle Axe just yet, but I tried the other 3.

    Fire Axe feels like a scaled down Zweihander. I've almost never used it, so I'm not sure if that description is accurate, but it feels like its all there - slow, heavier swings that stumble Zeds quite a bit, a cleaving arc with a bigger hit radius and distance for whacking multiple Zeds at once, and a slower, delayed forward heavy slash that presumably does increased damage. In other words, a proper fit. I never expected the Fire Axe to be above Tier 2, so I never voted for it. Now that it's here anyways, my expectations were right on the money. It works well enough on anything Zwei would, but still suffers from the shortcomings of slashing resistant Zeds later on. Poor Katana. Now there's TWO weapons that outdo it for the same cost. If Katana has any chance to compete, it needs to be even faster.

    M32 is the powerhouse I'd expect from a T5. Full on M79 power, with the boon of 6 shots, and a reload speed that isn't nearly as punishing as I was prepared for. The forced delay of opening up and emptying the canister before inserting rounds, no matter how many, seems to be the time-consuming cost of power here, and I can live with that. There's also the recoil to deal with. It's easy to miss and overshoot rapid shots if one doesn't keep their cool, even when sighted. Fortunately it has a healthy ammo pool that's forgiving enough to allow some wasted rounds. And it's just heavy enough to still allow an M79 or M16 M203 at your side. Its every bit the excellent addition everyone wanting it back expected. An indirect issue of this gun is that I don't really see Seeker Six being chosen ever again, lol. Not without an increased ammo pool.

    .........*Sigh*. Tommy is...........well, everyone's big gripe about this update. I'm damn glad it's here and more pleased still that it's the full-on drum mag 1928, but that's where the excitement ends. Opinion on it is pretty much universal right now - it ain't right at all. There's many differing opinions on what went wrong and how to fix it. I think the big mistake was making it as weak as it is to keep it cheap. It forced too much of what makes a 1928 Thompson to be compromised to where it doesn't feel right for either class that uses it. It's kind of absurd that it could ever be considered a T2. It just doesn't work. It's going to need to be beefed up in multiple ways (not least of all the sound department), but there's so much to say, I'll have to make it's own thread on it, which I'll later edit and post the link to here. It'll mostly be a rehash of what I'd been saying about it since last Spring, when it was first offered up for vote. If that solution worked then, it can work now.

    EDIT: Post is up at https://forums.tripwireinteractive....2326695-making-the-case-for-a-better-thompson
     
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    Servalion;n2326684 said:
    .........*Sigh*. Tommy is...........well, everyone's big gripe about this update. I'm damn glad it's here and more pleased still that it's the full-on drum mag 1928, but that's where the excitement ends. Opinion on it is pretty much universal right now - it ain't right at all. There's many differing opinions on what went wrong and how to fix it. I think the big mistake was making it as weak as it is to keep it cheap. It forced too much of what makes a 1928 Thompson to be compromised to where it doesn't feel right for either class that uses it. It's kind of absurd that it could ever be considered a T2. It just doesn't work. It's going to need to be beefed up in multiple ways (not least of all the sound department), but there's so much to say, I'll have to make it's own thread on it, which I'll later edit and post the link to here. It'll mostly be a rehash of what I'd been saying about it since last Spring, when it was first offered up for vote. If that solution worked then, it can work now.

    It should compensate heavy damage with inaccuracy imo. This game needs more tier 1.5-2 weapons.
     
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    Coffee009;n2326690 said:
    It should compensate heavy damage with inaccuracy imo. This game needs more tier 1.5-2 weapons.

    But it isn't heavy damage, its L85 damage, which SWAT gets in the P90, and gets to keep the rapid-fire laser pointing to boot. Inaccuracy can be a thing, but its currently too much for most serious SWATs, because they hate missing as it is. Tommy just doesn't work well as a T2 weapon. Maybe the M1A1 version, but not this.

    If SWATs want a proper T2, there's plenty of decent slower, harder hitting SMGs to pick from. MP40 comes to mind. As does the STEN and M3 Grease Gun, although I'm not certain about if those last two saw much police action. They're all WW2 weapons, though. I was never too sure as to whether the criteria for SWAT arsenal was merely to be an SMG, or be an SMG that has been utilized by known police/counter-terrorism units. Because so far, I'm certain that all current SMGs fit that description.

    Actually, the STEN saw extensive use by OSS operatives and probably saw use with the earliest versions of the SAS, so that too might qualify.
     
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    Servalion;n2326696 said:
    But it isn't heavy damage, its L85 damage, which SWAT gets in the P90, and gets to keep the rapid-fire laser pointing to boot. Inaccuracy can be a thing, but its currently too much for most serious SWATs, because they hate missing as it is. Tommy just doesn't work well as a T2 weapon. Maybe the M1A1 version, but not this.

    The thing is that I don't understand why you believe that the Tommygun can't be a nice T2... It wouldn't make sense for a weapon that was freaking heavy and inaccurate to side with the Vector...We don't use the Thompson anymore for a reason.

    Just switch the Thompson from a "spray'n'pray peashooter" to "short-ranged zed shredder". I mean...The prototype wasn't called the "Annihilator" for nothing!

    Speaking of which, that could be a nice addition to the upgrade system : choosing between a 20-rounds zed mauler or a 50-rounds sprayer that's inaccurate
     
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    Aleflippy;n2326724 said:
    The thing is that I don't understand why you believe that the Tommygun can't be a nice T2... It wouldn't make sense for a weapon that was freaking heavy and inaccurate to side with the Vector...We don't use the Thompson anymore for a reason.

    Just switch the Thompson from a "spray'n'pray peashooter" to "short-ranged zed shredder". I mean...The prototype wasn't called the "Annihilator" for nothing!

    Speaking of which, that could be a nice addition to the upgrade system : choosing between a 20-rounds zed mauler or a 50-rounds sprayer that's inaccurate

    Amen.. So we can choose which ACTUALLY stuff we want to be ugpraded, not just straight dmg boost.
     
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    Yoshiro

    Agree with much of the feedback re the Thompson. I would strongly suggest rebalancing it to be very powerful but fairly inaccurate (at least un-upgraded) and with good stopping power. Make it unique to the SWAT perk and stop trying to arbitrarily shoehorn it into being a Commando weapon - it doesn't suit the role at all in KF2, and it makes no sense to compromise the weapon's utility by attempting it.

    SWAT is the perk with the least variety and the least unique weapons - beef up the Thompson and let the perk finally shine.

    The other weapons are generally fine; issues with those are minor balance points, not a question of their intended role.
     
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    Aleflippy;n2326724 said:
    The thing is that I don't understand why you believe that the Tommygun can't be a nice T2... It wouldn't make sense for a weapon that was freaking heavy and inaccurate to side with the Vector...We don't use the Thompson anymore for a reason.

    Just switch the Thompson from a "spray'n'pray peashooter" to "short-ranged zed shredder". I mean...The prototype wasn't called the "Annihilator" for nothing!

    Speaking of which, that could be a nice addition to the upgrade system : choosing between a 20-rounds zed mauler or a 50-rounds sprayer that's inaccurate

    Well, if the upgrade system would be developed further any time soon, that might be an idea. Get lighter, quicker changeable box mags or opt for the slower-loading heavier, high cap drums. But they really need to up the cyclic rate on that thing. No version ever went below 600 rpm and what we have in the game is barely 400. Feels more like an M3 Grease Gun than a Thompson.
     
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    Kosake;n2326758 said:
    Well, if the upgrade system would be developed further any time soon, that might be an idea. Get lighter, quicker changeable box mags or opt for the slower-loading heavier, high cap drums. But they really need to up the cyclic rate on that thing. No version ever went below 600 rpm and what we have in the game is barely 400. Feels more like an M3 Grease Gun than a Thompson.


    It shoots at 600 rpm ingame
     
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    The Thompson in the game currently really is quite bad.

    The sound effects are puny, the fire rate is too slow, the ammo pool is too small, it's quite weak, and overall it just feels really underwhelming to use.
    It's really the polar opposite of what you would expect from such a legendary gun in American history; it feels really insignificant and unimpressive ingame.
    It pretty much needs to be completely overhauled.

    This is a good reference for sound / fire rate of the Thompson. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smhTeK8T3rg
     
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    Lt.Fenix;n2326806 said:
    The Thompson in the game currently really is quite bad.

    The sound effects are puny, the fire rate is too slow, the ammo pool is too small, it's quite weak, and overall it just feels really underwhelming to use.
    It's really the polar opposite of what you would expect from such a legendary gun in American history; it feels really insignificant and unimpressive ingame.
    It pretty much needs to be completely overhauled.

    This is a good reference for sound / fire rate of the Thompson. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smhTeK8T3rg

    Thanks for that demonstration video. This well illustrates the proper RoFs for the 3 different versions. Curious how he found the 1928 harder to shoot than the original. He really seems to swear that the original 1921 was the easiest to handle of the lot. That defies what I'd heard, but then again, his 1921 has a Cutts compensator. Those didn't come around for at least a few years after the original hit the market, so it must have been a later addition and really makes the difference here.

    I'm a bit shocked that even this well-versed expert on older and obscure firearms thought the 1928 was the slow shooter of the bunch. Must be a really common misconception. Test firing all 3 put that mistake to bed. Another thing is that he doesn't really seem to lose control much of the bunch, so the recoil is there, but certainly not as hard as it is in game. Just watch the video at 5:17. As corny as that bit is, he's got it under control under full auto than most I've seen emptying mags with 5.56 weapons. It really does seem to handle better than I thought. I also assume that what we have is supposed to be the 1928. However, I'm having trouble finding examples of the 1921's ironsights, although the guy in the video testifies that it easily has the worst ironsights of the bunch. Judging from other pictures I'd seen, I think I can now say for certain that the rear of the gun when ironsighted in game is positioned a good bit too high, obscuring more vision than needed.

    The video ends with a nice side-by-side comparison of the guns firing in slow motion. So, definitive proof that what we're holding in game, allegedly the 1928, should be firing somewhere in the low-mid 800 RPMs, but what we're actually firing has only M1A1 speeds. The one in the video is 655 RPM, which virtually L85 rates, but ours is a flat 600 - more like an AK-47. Furthermore, it -sounds- like its firing around 500 RPM. This must all be rectified.

    I care little for Commando or SWAT balance in this, although such must be maintained. I care about the state of the weapon, and what it should be. And keeping it as is just to keep it cheap is like crapping all over its legacy. We don't need T2s so badly that we have to nerf obviously more powerful weapons down to fit the bill.
     
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