Upvote
0
Twisted Christmas Beta Survey
- Thread starter Yoshiro
- Start date
If you don't want to make the Tommy gun a tier 3 because you're worried you'll do a poor job of balancing it in-between the P90 and UMP, that's a fine point. But I think it'll still be better than what we got. If you don't want to make it a tier 3 because you're worried SWAT has too many tier 3s, don't be. That won't be a problem after you give us a more obviously tier 2 weapon like, say, a .45Cal Uzi (which would probably feel an awful lot like this current Tommy gun, except with much smaller magazines). The Tommy gun is a perfectly fine weapon, if a bit archaic in it's heavy weight and bulky design, and it deserves to be a tier 3 with great strength but obvious limitations based on those facts. And if you're really that worried about it's price, just give it tier 2.5 pricing but tier 3 balance and consider that a lower price point can be part of it's perks over the alternatives.
I think it should be fast-firing and hard-hitting, sort of mixing the best of the UMP and the P90, but with the highly obvious drawbacks of high recoil (with a slightly erratic pattern that's difficult to control), as well as low ammo and high weight for it's tier. Say, 8 blocks? That way you have to commit to it if you want to upgrade it, being stuck with only a vanilla MP5/Tier 2 MP7/Tier 3 MedSMG (which is probably what most people will go for, and that's honestly fine).
I also think it could stand to be SWAT-only because it felt terrible using it on Commando and I can only imagine considering balance with Commando will hamper it's balance for SWAT. I can't imagine too many people will complain about it not being cross-perk. After all, the only reason it was ever Commando at all is because we didn't have a dedicated SMG perk back then. But if you are going to leave it crossperk, just don't worry about it and balance it for SWAT with no regard for Commando. The worst offense it could commit is being slightly too useful.
Oh no, think of the poor AK-12s!
I think it should be fast-firing and hard-hitting, sort of mixing the best of the UMP and the P90, but with the highly obvious drawbacks of high recoil (with a slightly erratic pattern that's difficult to control), as well as low ammo and high weight for it's tier. Say, 8 blocks? That way you have to commit to it if you want to upgrade it, being stuck with only a vanilla MP5/Tier 2 MP7/Tier 3 MedSMG (which is probably what most people will go for, and that's honestly fine).
I also think it could stand to be SWAT-only because it felt terrible using it on Commando and I can only imagine considering balance with Commando will hamper it's balance for SWAT. I can't imagine too many people will complain about it not being cross-perk. After all, the only reason it was ever Commando at all is because we didn't have a dedicated SMG perk back then. But if you are going to leave it crossperk, just don't worry about it and balance it for SWAT with no regard for Commando. The worst offense it could commit is being slightly too useful.
Oh no, think of the poor AK-12s!
Upvote
0
i honestly think the current Tommygun RoF and its tier 2 place because id like a slower firing SMG. but i think its damage should be boosted sightly but the recoil reduced significantly.
Upvote
0
Ramare
I guess it could also become T3, although that'd be wierd siding it right next to the UMP. However, this would also build a case against keeping its RoF slow since the UMP is exactly what it's doing right now, with heavier damage and a smaller mag (but much better recoil). No sense in having two SMGs that similar. Tommy could be bumped up in RoF and damage, more damage than now but less than the UMP. Problem is, then in its effort to stay further away from the UMP, it starts leaning into being more similar to P90's territory.
The balance would work well for Commando, as it'd be very different from the AK-12 and the MKb.42(H), but SWAT might be feeling underwhelmed. It'd hardly be a bad gun, but it might garner some complaints of being more of the same. It could work......but SWAT already has 3 T3s as well, so there's that to consider. I still think T4 would be best, as SWAT desperately needs more options at the top.
Eight Foot Robot
I still disagree, but I'm having second thoughts of arguing for the RoF as high as I'd previously been. I'm starting to think 800+ RPM might not be necessary.
I decided to go take a look at the stats of the Thompsons in KF1 for reference just now. The wikis say that they all fire at the same speed, which is almost 12 rounds per second. That puts the KF1 Thompsons at roughly the 720 RPM ballpark.
That got me thinking - we don't have any SMGs quite like that.......or ANY guns quite like that, at all. For once, Commando and SWAT share this lack of mid-ground; most SWAT guns are all super fast by conventional firearm standards (with the exceptions being Tommy's current state and the UMP, both 600 RPM). Commando's arsenal tends to lean to the slower side of many modern assault rifles - generally 600-650 RPM, with the Varmint and MKb.42(H) being slower. Only Stoner breaks higher, and all the way to 909.
Part of me still thinks that what SWAT could really benefit from is a T4 Tommy that was sorta similar to the Stoner, with less RPM and base mag but higher damage and otherwise rather similar. But failing that.......A 720-750 RPM Tommy would work very well, maybe even better. It'd be keeping in the spirit of its KF1 roots.
Most importantly, it'd give the gun that a feeling rather unique to KF2. Seriously, where are all the 700something RPM firearms?
I guess it could also become T3, although that'd be wierd siding it right next to the UMP. However, this would also build a case against keeping its RoF slow since the UMP is exactly what it's doing right now, with heavier damage and a smaller mag (but much better recoil). No sense in having two SMGs that similar. Tommy could be bumped up in RoF and damage, more damage than now but less than the UMP. Problem is, then in its effort to stay further away from the UMP, it starts leaning into being more similar to P90's territory.
The balance would work well for Commando, as it'd be very different from the AK-12 and the MKb.42(H), but SWAT might be feeling underwhelmed. It'd hardly be a bad gun, but it might garner some complaints of being more of the same. It could work......but SWAT already has 3 T3s as well, so there's that to consider. I still think T4 would be best, as SWAT desperately needs more options at the top.
Eight Foot Robot
I still disagree, but I'm having second thoughts of arguing for the RoF as high as I'd previously been. I'm starting to think 800+ RPM might not be necessary.
I decided to go take a look at the stats of the Thompsons in KF1 for reference just now. The wikis say that they all fire at the same speed, which is almost 12 rounds per second. That puts the KF1 Thompsons at roughly the 720 RPM ballpark.
That got me thinking - we don't have any SMGs quite like that.......or ANY guns quite like that, at all. For once, Commando and SWAT share this lack of mid-ground; most SWAT guns are all super fast by conventional firearm standards (with the exceptions being Tommy's current state and the UMP, both 600 RPM). Commando's arsenal tends to lean to the slower side of many modern assault rifles - generally 600-650 RPM, with the Varmint and MKb.42(H) being slower. Only Stoner breaks higher, and all the way to 909.
Part of me still thinks that what SWAT could really benefit from is a T4 Tommy that was sorta similar to the Stoner, with less RPM and base mag but higher damage and otherwise rather similar. But failing that.......A 720-750 RPM Tommy would work very well, maybe even better. It'd be keeping in the spirit of its KF1 roots.
Most importantly, it'd give the gun that a feeling rather unique to KF2. Seriously, where are all the 700something RPM firearms?
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Aleflippy;n2326724 said:
Exactly, it should be heavy, have a huge mag so long as it's using drum, and be overall clunky compared to it's super-modern counterparts like the P90 and Vector. I'll also second that we don't have enough low-tier weapons compared to high-tier (except for Zerk). The current weapon selection is very good, I don't want to make it sound like I'm knocking it. But I feel like it's kind of lopsided towards the end-game tiers at the moment, whereas the first 3-4 waves feel more samey in weapons every game.
Upvote
0