Bullseye Update Preview Beta
- Thread starter Yoshiro
- Start date
v1034 beta original.
v1034 beta original.
My original post regarding this new patch :
Perhaps I have not played enough but from the 2-3 hours that I fooled around with stuff, I saw less positive and more negatives coming from this patch. I played COM/GS and a bit of lv 25 SS in the usual testing environment of Outpost roof and 2 games with another friend of mine.
Zed Resistances : For a COM, this brought some issues as COM lost what I thought in KF2 to be better than the KF1 counterpart. 1 shotting trash ZEDs. The one thing that really prevented me from enjoying COM in KF1 was the fact that the simplest of trash didn't die from 1 shot to the head and even then it was a headless decap (not a full on death). This is why I actually preferred playing COM in KF2 so much more than in 1. With gorefast's new resistance, it takes 4 AK / 2 Scar to fully kill. That is 2/1 headshots to headless decap and another 2/1 shots to kill it. This wastes 4x/2x time that you could be spending on aiming on your next target. Essentially a ~1.3x timeloss for every Gorefast. Doesn't seem like much but it adds up. Browsing the threads here, I think Ryno had done some well analysis on FB's effectiveness as that's a perk that I sort of refuse to play. This really also hurt the effectiveness of being able to clear trash quickly without allowing the ZEDs to break through your solo line of defense.
Affliction Change (Bash) : This was the most basic of functions that was introduced in 1009 and has been with us since 1033. What used to be a COM exclusive with Impact had been added and given to every perk. This gave options to Bash kill large Zeds as a COM/GS, delay->another affliction as other perks or just gave it utility when on the run to be able to safely run past a SC/FP. With it gone, the game is limited to just hope you can kill the thing coming at you by blinding shooting at it or hoping you trigger an affliction while everyone is shooting at it. It also gave the ability to herd SC around while you continue to clear trash so that your large ZED killer (or team) can focus on one large ZED at a time. If anything I would give all bash 1000 stumble power so that it can stumble everything including bosses again.
Affliction Change (General) : To add to the above and my previous post, KF2's combos seemed to be based off of a combination of Damage from weapons and adding in Afflictions when appropriate. The original one is EMP + SC back in 1008- days. This took off and you started to see this being used in teams a lot. Scar/AA12/HM401-MED AR as soon as the EMP went off to decap. Later (v1009 I believe), the EMP was given a stumble power so people were doing something to either use it up or force it into another animation so the EMP doesn't cause a .5s delay (Med weapon's leg stumble, going in for a bash to use up stumble). With using the stumble in that manner (and for people using Impact back in 100
people went for SC only decaps on SC by firing, bashing when it got close and then finishing off. A tactic also used by SUP players until the damage dropoff on gorejoints function was added. A friend of mine even had a calculated stumble+fire incap method as a FB in order to solo SC without taking any damage at all and while it required space and time, we knew he would be able to do it every single time so we gave him the 1v1 environment everytime he wanted to go for it. Now without any means of being able to trigger afflictions (except emp, freeze and stun to an extent) on the fly, we're left with "combos" such as ADS'ing on a SC's head and spamming through SW500->DE until the SC is dead because whatever doesn't headshot the SC will trigger stumbles and Gun hitstun (aka. Gun Flinch) which pretty much means that you can kill a SC without getting hit and without aiming.
Speaking of not aiming, I was seriously appalled when I saw that the values for Railgun's auto/manual aim damage by default was both set for 750.
Health value changes : Some changes to the head hp values for large zeds seems ok, SW500 can now decap FP in 9 hits from 0 combo and 12-13 0 combo M14. It's less forgiving as you no longer have a stumble to refer back to.
Granted there wasn't much that I had to time for prior to this patch (Affliction used, start counting cooldown) but at least you'd know how much damage you're doing and whether Affliction is available. With this new patch, if I want to stumble a SC with a SW500 for example I need to consider the fact that SW500 has a base of 60, SC has a resistance against stumble of 0.3x (each shot does 18) and the stumble addition starts dissipation at a rate of 10/s. That means that in theory if I can fire 6 shots within 1s then he's going to stumble or if it's over 1s then I need to shoot 7 for the stumble, but what if I need to clear a crawler that's right next to him? Tag on another 1-2s and now my next shot may or may not stumble. In a game that's much faster paced then KF1, needing to have an internal clock or some kind of speedrun overlay to time me isn't the best way to play this.
Teamplay to me didn't exactly mean that everyone gang up on a large ZED or hey this ZED is here come and help. It meant that whoever was with you in your lane was your "group" and that you guys would be able to take care of anything coming in. If player A was going for large ZED kill, the others should keep the trash off of you. Not this, hey COM in other lane, we have a stalker please kill logic.
On the topic of perk homogenization : This to me was not a problem at all, it was how the players used it. When I see a BSK going for a large ZED ballroom dance, I did what was best for his situation of clearing trash off of him. A FB going nuts throwing fire everywhere, switch to a DEM that also deducts from the bodyhp pool. Playing a GS for the large ZED, then I'd hope I have teammates that can clear trash for me. The fact that every perk could clear trash/clear large ZEDs wasn't a big issue for me as long as they could do it. There were perks that were better suited for each role, but when it required it any perk could still do it quite well (My opinion here, does not reflect everyone's ideals).
Lastly, playstyles : What seemed to make KF1 great was that Kite or Camp styles were both very doable and all you were losing was time depending on which you picked. From where 1008 has been up to now, it looks like you're just trying to destroy both styles and prevent anything from being used. If there's some kind of base for doing so, the root cause should be looked at instead of just trying to prevent players from doing things. Going back to comparing this game to an RPG, look at Diablo 3. Game was themed around killing the player then reverted to trying to go back to Diablo 2 style where getting more difficulties and loot drop tables were added to make the game more enjoyable to everyone.
__________________________
P.S. TWI - you may want to look at Marco/InsertNameHere's post in the ServerExt mod thread. If you lose Marco's interest, you'll lose a lot of players.
v1034 beta original.
My original post regarding this new patch :
Perhaps I have not played enough but from the 2-3 hours that I fooled around with stuff, I saw less positive and more negatives coming from this patch. I played COM/GS and a bit of lv 25 SS in the usual testing environment of Outpost roof and 2 games with another friend of mine.
Zed Resistances : For a COM, this brought some issues as COM lost what I thought in KF2 to be better than the KF1 counterpart. 1 shotting trash ZEDs. The one thing that really prevented me from enjoying COM in KF1 was the fact that the simplest of trash didn't die from 1 shot to the head and even then it was a headless decap (not a full on death). This is why I actually preferred playing COM in KF2 so much more than in 1. With gorefast's new resistance, it takes 4 AK / 2 Scar to fully kill. That is 2/1 headshots to headless decap and another 2/1 shots to kill it. This wastes 4x/2x time that you could be spending on aiming on your next target. Essentially a ~1.3x timeloss for every Gorefast. Doesn't seem like much but it adds up. Browsing the threads here, I think Ryno had done some well analysis on FB's effectiveness as that's a perk that I sort of refuse to play. This really also hurt the effectiveness of being able to clear trash quickly without allowing the ZEDs to break through your solo line of defense.
Affliction Change (Bash) : This was the most basic of functions that was introduced in 1009 and has been with us since 1033. What used to be a COM exclusive with Impact had been added and given to every perk. This gave options to Bash kill large Zeds as a COM/GS, delay->another affliction as other perks or just gave it utility when on the run to be able to safely run past a SC/FP. With it gone, the game is limited to just hope you can kill the thing coming at you by blinding shooting at it or hoping you trigger an affliction while everyone is shooting at it. It also gave the ability to herd SC around while you continue to clear trash so that your large ZED killer (or team) can focus on one large ZED at a time. If anything I would give all bash 1000 stumble power so that it can stumble everything including bosses again.
Affliction Change (General) : To add to the above and my previous post, KF2's combos seemed to be based off of a combination of Damage from weapons and adding in Afflictions when appropriate. The original one is EMP + SC back in 1008- days. This took off and you started to see this being used in teams a lot. Scar/AA12/HM401-MED AR as soon as the EMP went off to decap. Later (v1009 I believe), the EMP was given a stumble power so people were doing something to either use it up or force it into another animation so the EMP doesn't cause a .5s delay (Med weapon's leg stumble, going in for a bash to use up stumble). With using the stumble in that manner (and for people using Impact back in 100
people went for SC only decaps on SC by firing, bashing when it got close and then finishing off. A tactic also used by SUP players until the damage dropoff on gorejoints function was added. A friend of mine even had a calculated stumble+fire incap method as a FB in order to solo SC without taking any damage at all and while it required space and time, we knew he would be able to do it every single time so we gave him the 1v1 environment everytime he wanted to go for it. Now without any means of being able to trigger afflictions (except emp, freeze and stun to an extent) on the fly, we're left with "combos" such as ADS'ing on a SC's head and spamming through SW500->DE until the SC is dead because whatever doesn't headshot the SC will trigger stumbles and Gun hitstun (aka. Gun Flinch) which pretty much means that you can kill a SC without getting hit and without aiming. Speaking of not aiming, I was seriously appalled when I saw that the values for Railgun's auto/manual aim damage by default was both set for 750.
Health value changes : Some changes to the head hp values for large zeds seems ok, SW500 can now decap FP in 9 hits from 0 combo and 12-13 0 combo M14. It's less forgiving as you no longer have a stumble to refer back to.
Granted there wasn't much that I had to time for prior to this patch (Affliction used, start counting cooldown) but at least you'd know how much damage you're doing and whether Affliction is available. With this new patch, if I want to stumble a SC with a SW500 for example I need to consider the fact that SW500 has a base of 60, SC has a resistance against stumble of 0.3x (each shot does 18) and the stumble addition starts dissipation at a rate of 10/s. That means that in theory if I can fire 6 shots within 1s then he's going to stumble or if it's over 1s then I need to shoot 7 for the stumble, but what if I need to clear a crawler that's right next to him? Tag on another 1-2s and now my next shot may or may not stumble. In a game that's much faster paced then KF1, needing to have an internal clock or some kind of speedrun overlay to time me isn't the best way to play this.
Teamplay to me didn't exactly mean that everyone gang up on a large ZED or hey this ZED is here come and help. It meant that whoever was with you in your lane was your "group" and that you guys would be able to take care of anything coming in. If player A was going for large ZED kill, the others should keep the trash off of you. Not this, hey COM in other lane, we have a stalker please kill logic.
On the topic of perk homogenization : This to me was not a problem at all, it was how the players used it. When I see a BSK going for a large ZED ballroom dance, I did what was best for his situation of clearing trash off of him. A FB going nuts throwing fire everywhere, switch to a DEM that also deducts from the bodyhp pool. Playing a GS for the large ZED, then I'd hope I have teammates that can clear trash for me. The fact that every perk could clear trash/clear large ZEDs wasn't a big issue for me as long as they could do it. There were perks that were better suited for each role, but when it required it any perk could still do it quite well (My opinion here, does not reflect everyone's ideals).
Lastly, playstyles : What seemed to make KF1 great was that Kite or Camp styles were both very doable and all you were losing was time depending on which you picked. From where 1008 has been up to now, it looks like you're just trying to destroy both styles and prevent anything from being used. If there's some kind of base for doing so, the root cause should be looked at instead of just trying to prevent players from doing things. Going back to comparing this game to an RPG, look at Diablo 3. Game was themed around killing the player then reverted to trying to go back to Diablo 2 style where getting more difficulties and loot drop tables were added to make the game more enjoyable to everyone.
__________________________
P.S. TWI - you may want to look at Marco/InsertNameHere's post in the ServerExt mod thread. If you lose Marco's interest, you'll lose a lot of players.
Upvote
0
Dont forget. Blocking and parrying mitigate even more damage, along with the 30% damage resistance to all type. Tank confirmed.
Upvote
0
I've been playing the update, and I feel that the resistances to certain weapons and classes don't really "make sense". There's a lot of new information about how to fight zeds that I'm going to have to learn in order to be remotely competent. Since the crazy berserker perk, I find that it's become really difficult to play it effectively, even just on hard or suicidal. I've been playing KF2 since day 1 of its early access (474 hours total, lvl 25 in everything but SS), but I'm just not having any fun with this update. I feel that it has overcomplicated things drastically and is making it really difficult to play the game and enjoy it, especially considering how much more complicated fighting stalkers has become. Even after taking their heads off with the M14, they still run around for a long time and take swings at you. They're far tankier than they used to be and I personally think that it takes away the whole point of the stalker. Just an invisible gorefast with sick flips.
I understand that tripwire's trying to simultaneously balance things and introduce a new resistance-based combat system, but I just don't think this is the right way to do it. A game can be complicated and still be fun, but when the system doesn't make sense or parallel reality in any real way it just isn't fun trying to rationalize why a single headshot with a SCAR will kill a stalker immediately, but a headshot from the more powerful M14EMR won't...
The resistances from before made sense to me. Fleshpounds gauntlets resist damage. Made sense to me since they were metal and gave those indicators (sparks n' such) when shot. Ditto with the siren's metal parts, the gorefast's blade and the scrake's chainsaw, etc. The weaknesses of characters made sense, and the boss' weaknesses were also relatively easy to diagnose. I simply don't understand why the combat system was so drastically taken apart like it was. TW had a REALLY FUN combat system. I loved it and would come back and try all classes just to have fun tackling the game in a different way. Each had their strengths and were self-sufficient, but now the cooperation of the game has been strongly forced with these new resistances to the point where everyone has to be glued together to do well. I still love the core gameplay, but now that the details have been so muddied up, it's just not enjoyable for me anymore.
Idk the extent in which tripwire actually looks at the forums, but I hope they change this enough to make it fun again.
I understand that tripwire's trying to simultaneously balance things and introduce a new resistance-based combat system, but I just don't think this is the right way to do it. A game can be complicated and still be fun, but when the system doesn't make sense or parallel reality in any real way it just isn't fun trying to rationalize why a single headshot with a SCAR will kill a stalker immediately, but a headshot from the more powerful M14EMR won't...
The resistances from before made sense to me. Fleshpounds gauntlets resist damage. Made sense to me since they were metal and gave those indicators (sparks n' such) when shot. Ditto with the siren's metal parts, the gorefast's blade and the scrake's chainsaw, etc. The weaknesses of characters made sense, and the boss' weaknesses were also relatively easy to diagnose. I simply don't understand why the combat system was so drastically taken apart like it was. TW had a REALLY FUN combat system. I loved it and would come back and try all classes just to have fun tackling the game in a different way. Each had their strengths and were self-sufficient, but now the cooperation of the game has been strongly forced with these new resistances to the point where everyone has to be glued together to do well. I still love the core gameplay, but now that the details have been so muddied up, it's just not enjoyable for me anymore.
Idk the extent in which tripwire actually looks at the forums, but I hope they change this enough to make it fun again.
Upvote
0
This is just wrong, wrong, wrong.
This is just wrong, wrong, wrong.
Berserker is officially abandoned from the devs.
It's neither tanker, nor dealer.
Never pick it. Just NEVER.
This is just wrong, wrong, wrong.
Berserker is officially abandoned from the devs.
It's neither tanker, nor dealer.
Never pick it. Just NEVER.
Upvote
0
Posted under patch notes almost completely consisting of berserker buffs.
Literally the most idiotic thing I've read this week and there was this twitter moron who posted where people are hiding themselves during a live hostage-taking....
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Now you call THAT a berf. pfff
Small tweak on parry damage mitigation doesn't mean you don't need to just run away like rats from fleshpounds, bloats, and gorefasts.
It neither means that you can now kill clots with one attack. Nor you swing your puny shovel fast enough to prevent gorefasts to cripple your armor.
Upvote
0