T5 Support Weapon - Jackhammer (Reposted)

[Dudmaster]

*Note: I am re-posting my Jackhammer shotgun idea I had before when Tripwire updated/upgraded the forums and the "Ideas and Suggestions" posts were lost. I decided to refine the idea some more and include some feedback from that original post.

Originally, my idea for the Jackhammer was to be a crossbreed of the M4 with the AA12. Though, after getting some feedback and input from the original post, I decided to rework the idea. Realistically, the Jackhammer was an early version of the AA12. It weighed less but fired slower and had a smaller clip size.

*If Tripwire decides to add this weapon, it's, ultimately, up to them to decide the actual stats. Otherwise here are some numbers I came up with to give an idea and that I thought would be fitting for the design.


Weapon Type: Shotgun

Tier: 5

Price: 2500

Primary Perk: Support
Secondary Perk(s): Demolitionist

Weight: 8
Clip Size: 10
Ammo Capacity: 120

Firing Modes: Full-Auto and Semi-Auto

Shotgun that uses explosive rounds.

If any of you want to share your thoughts, go for it. Otherwise, personally, the Jackhammer is my most favorite shotgun in any video game and would love to see it get added in-game sometime in the future.

 

[Aleflippy]

That would shred FPs so damn fast ... I like that idea!

But balancing the explosive damage truly needs to be taken in consideration.

 

[Dudmaster]

Aleflippy Oh yeah, absolutely. Otherwise it could easily make the other Demo weapons (and even Support weapons) pointless or even relevant. I haven't had a chance to think of the ideal damage it would do other than how it obviously wouldn't deal as much damage as a T5 M4. Otherwise, I'd let it be up to Tripwire to give it an ideal starting damage to test out to go off of.

 

[Nova!]

Would you be able to provide a visual example? I'd love to see what you think the weapon would look like. IMO Support's tiers 1-3 could use more love since it has some of the most variety of late-game weapons with the T5 M4, AA12, and Doomstick, but I'd be happy for any new weapons.

 

[Dudmaster]

This is what the weapon looks like and some additional info about it in the video.

The video mentions how the clip was designed to be able to be used as a mine. I dunno how I feel about that idea for being implemented, but it's a cool concept.

Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancor_Jackhammer

Image:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancor...Jackhammer.png

Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VKGhqIl4Gw

 

[flashn00b]

Would the explosive projectiles be slugs or firecrackers similar to the HX-25? Figured this is a question worth asking since the mental image I have for a Demolitionist shotgun would be a Sharpshooter cross-perk weapon since explosive ammo for shotguns are typically more similar to solid slugs.

 

[Dudmaster]

Not sure, the way I've been thinking of it: It operates like a normal shotgun (bullets spread, no arc/bullet drop), but the projectiles make a small explosion when they come in contact with anything and having a small blast radius (in the similar matter of the HX-25 Grenade Pistol). Of course, since it's also a shotgun, it would naturally have bullet penetration. So, in that regard, maybe the first target it hit makes the explosion and any targets there after only take bullet damage? Or have the first target take the full damage of the first hit, and each target after takes reduced explosive damage? There are a lot of thoughts that could be used.

 

[RaNdOmKiLs666]

Well if it fires slugs, i'd suggest a 1/2 damage split, so say about 200 ballistic damage and 100 explosive damage in a 3 meter radius. Fire rate should be somewhere between 275 and 300.

 

[Dudmaster]

RaNdOmKiLs666 That seems perfectly legit. I was thinking more of a fire rate of 250-275, because the AA12, realistically, fired slightly faster than the Jackhammer. Plus it would help balance it so it isn't too superior to the other weapons.

 

[Dr. Lethal]

I think it'd work better as a pure support weapon. We don't want to have another pulverizer in giving the demo a weapon that doesn't get used often or very rarely. They usually prefer launcher-type weapons for crowd control; plus they generally do more damage.

 

[Dudmaster]

Dr. Lethal I've seen people use the grenade pistol as a back up weapon incase zeds get too close. Same deal with the M16. The Jackhammer would basically be a beefier version of the grenade pistol at that point with: no bullet drop, bigger magazine/clip, and the option of full auto and semi-auto. Obviously people dont have to use it if they dont want to, but having be a cross perk weapon at least gives others the choice to use and if another perk uses the weapon, dies and drops it... then they could pick it up and utilize it efficiently.

 

[Dr. Lethal]

Dr. Lethal I've seen people use the grenade pistol as a back up weapon incase zeds get too close. Same deal with the M16. The Jackhammer would basically be a beefier version of the grenade pistol at that point with: no bullet drop, bigger magazine/clip, and the option of full auto and semi-auto. Obviously people dont have to use it if they dont want to, but having be a cross perk weapon at least gives others the choice to use and if another perk uses the weapon, dies and drops it... then they could pick it up and utilize it efficiently.

While that may be true, if it's a T5 weapon then it'll carry a substantial amount of weight. Because many demos will carry either the RPG, M32, or seeker 6 as their primary killing weapon for big zeds(those alone take over half the carry space for the demo) the shotgun would need to weigh around 6kg to be paired well with anything else. HX-25 is a good starting weapon, but doesn't have as much crowd control and like you said, is only good for personal defense. The M16/203 is a bit better, but it still lags behind the M79 and possibly the Seal Squeal in damage and crowd control. Not to mention both aren't exactly ideal for dealing with large zeds unless you're good with them.

 

[Dudmaster]

Dr. Lethal The idea I had for the Jackhammer would make it be just as capable killing large zeds as those other weapons.

- The RPG is most demos' go-to primary due to its incredibly high burst damage, which also comes with big splash damage. Of course, the draw backs are it's limited ammo reserve and how it's useless at close range (unless you're attempting to OHKO a Scrake). Normally you wouldn't use it unless a large zed shows up, it's your last available weapon, or there is an abundance of ammo around for you to play with it.
- Seeker six allows you to lock on to targets if you're not confident in aiming, a clip size bigger than 1 (less reloading between shooting), has respectable damage output and a respectable ammo reserve. However, it lacks the splash damage and crowd control that the other options have.
- The M32 (currently my personal go-to) has excellent damage, clip size, splash damage, and damage output. When you reload it, you reload one grenade at a time, which can be both good and bad. Good because you are able to shoot it mid-reload in a pinch. Bad because it takes longer to fully reload it for a future barrage or instance.
- Husk Cannon (for the heck of it) now has a high rate of fire when you spam it, decent damage when you fully charge, causes after-burn damage (abysmal but still contributes and can cause zeds to panic which can be a life saver now and then). Not the most ideal for crowd control unless you take time to charge it which can leave you vulnerable and you chew threw ammo a whole lot quicker on top of having the reduced ammo reserves. The fireball also has a longer travel time than any of the other projectiles from the 3 mentioned weapons.

- My idea of the Jackhammer would be high rate of fire, respectable damage (with high fire rate would give it high damage output and ideally make it's dps be comparable to the RPG, Seeker Six, and M32), bullet penetration, decent magazine/clip size, decent ammo reserves, can't damage yourself with the explosions, and it would be multi-purpose (self defense, killing non-large zeds, close range combat). Some downsides would be: the splash damage (however the penetration would make up for it in a way and you'd still be able to carry the M16 or M79 for some splash damage crowd control and even upgrade it once if you wanted or carry a med pistol), its raw damage compared to the other options (again the fire rate and clip size would help make up for it), and it's bullet spread.

If it was balanced right enough, my idea was how it could be an alternative to using the RPG, M32, and Seeker Six. An idea where it could even excel past those 3 options would be on cramped maps (such as Nightmare, The Descent, Powercore, etc) and areas (like Stand your ground areas in that one tiny room your team or yourself decided to go for or a corridor). All weapons have their strengths and weaknesses and the Jackhammer would provide another option depending on your playstyle(s), situation, and/or what you feel like using.

How you were phrasing it to be a backup weapon/secondary by making it weigh 6 would make it more ideal for the demo, but for the support that'd be too out of balance. It would weigh as much as the M4 and since the support naturally can carry more than any other perk (aside a level 15 survivalist who chooses that skill).

 

[Dudmaster]

Well if it fires slugs, i'd suggest a 1/2 damage split, so say about 200 ballistic damage and 100 explosive damage in a 3 meter radius. Fire rate should be somewhere between 275 and 300.

I've done some looking, the AA12 does about 100 ballistic damage per shot (if all the pellets hit their target). Maybe tweak the ballistic damage to 100 and keep the explosive damage to 100? I'm just throwing numbers at the wall and see what sticks.

 

[Dr. Lethal]

Dudmaster I guess that would be ideal. I was also thinking on the lines of how the trench gun Works with the support. It has good damage for a tier 2 weapon, but it still gets beaten out by the boomstick any day of the week. Unsurprisingly it still does even though the boomstick now cost more than it used to. I kind of think the doomstick should be a tier 5 since that thing will literally blow the hell out of anything in front of it, and it would make sense for its immense weight. Wow an explosive round shotgun would be very ideal for corridor Maps, them 79 and other explosive launchers will still be a better alternative because as long as the demo is able to keep a few feet away from any enemies, he can continue to spam with Reckless abandon down a single hallway and paint the area red with body parts. Another funny idea of the shotgun is that you could go full torgue modem make it fire miniature rockets.

 

[Dudmaster]

Dr. Lethal That is true, but the Jackhammer would serve as another option. At that point it all comes down to the players choice of what they would want to use and/or what they feel comfortable with. It wouldn't hurt to make it a cross perk weapon to at least give players the option.

Also, that would be hilarious. Just have a shotgun that shoots gyrojets or be like the Carnage shotgun that shoots rockets. Haha. Though I think we should just stick with it using shells. However that could be an idea for another weapon.