A left turn for the inevitable Firebug nerf

[flashn00b]

Bit of a copy-paste from a thread i made on the Steam forums, but i think it's worth posting anyways in response to the Helios balance changes. However, given Tripwire's previous handling with the Firebug's balance changes, I think it'd be worth commenting on most of the weapons, rather than just the Helios specifically:

Helios
Price reduced to 1500
Ammo reduced to 40+280
Damage increased to 65 (was 40)
Upgrade to Level 1 reinstated

Microwave Gun
Beam impact damage increased to 30 (was 16)
Max ammo decreased to 100+300
Can headshot (Caulk and FT can)

Husk Cannon
Base Damage increased to 120 (was 80)
Max ammo decreased to 20+160
Can spawn ground fires if 2 or more ammo units was consumed (initially required a full charge)
Can Headshot (required for most of Demolitionist's skills)

Flamethrower
Damage increased to 30 (was 18)
Ammo decreased to 100+300

Caulk n' Burn
Damage increased to 18 (was 10)
Ammo decreased to 50+250

 

[s5yn3t]

Ok so helios was already OP once upgraded... Now you suggest to revert changes to it and make it EVEN MORE OP?
Thats a suggestion i totally do not agree with..
Also its base damage is 50, not 40.

I can only agree on giving it a small +5 dmg increase (from 50 to 55), as in its current state its a bit too challenging to use against scrakes.

I see no reason to change anything about caulk and flamethrower, as they are already solid weapons.

The only weapons that need some love is the mentioned microwave and husk cannon (tho i still have to use the cannon after recent changes to see how it performs)
​​​​​​

 

[Cannonaire]

Reducing the ammo pool for Microwave Gun would make it useless. It needs all 100+500.

 

[flashn00b]

Considering Tripwire's history with the Firebug, i would honestly prefer an ammo nerf because with the suggestion I have, the damage increases should be sufficient to the point where the Firebug can safely rely on damage over time and in the case of clots, knife finishers.

Also, 100+300 ammo units of 30 damage would actually be an increase in total damage for the Microwave Gun. If anything, it should be closer to what it was during the Incinerate n' Detonate update.

 

[mrnok14l]

I'm aware this is quite a nay saying speech, but this is what I've noticed so far when it comes to balance in general:

A) TWI just don't care - and they'll mess with the balance into whatever direction the community is whining towards (which works to a certain extent) in a such passive/reactive way.

B) None of us have the resource to provide convincing stats tweak beyond "personal feeling", as it'll require the capability as well as capacity to gather and analyze every data there is regarding weapons' performance slash viability.

C) The way TWI didn't bother to do (B) proves (A).


As with the topic at hand, if we ought to adopt the existing "tier logic", Helios Rifle is "OP" because as a tier-5 weapon it functions like a straightforwardly beefed up AR with its damage relationship towards large Zeds making it a particularly potent one, whereas ARs in general in this game boast decent stats in each department (damage, RoF, mag size, etc) but will prove weaker overall by comparison of a more niched slash specific weapon, for example the immense per shot power of a Railgun is something that a typical rifle could never compete as it renders the latter just kinda meh in every way combined.

That said, unless TWI directly tackles the root that makes Helios a straight up stronger (fire-type) AR, it'll remain OP until it's so over-nerfed that it can no longer performs OP despite its inherent trait(s).


Solution: fire delay, when?

 

[Dr. Lethal]

Caulk and FT cannot headshot. Just because you manage to pop a zed's head upon its death doesn't mean the weapon actually dealt headshot damage; it was just the impact of the flames. Those two weapons are only good for dealing damage to the body, as that's what flames were designed for. Of course, the trench gun, flares, and Mac 10 can headshot since they have ballistic damage on top of fire.