I'll Show You Mine If You'll Show Me Yours (Part Deux)

[THunter]

Originally Posted by Panzerlied

Those initial models were stamped with the Runes and Skull early on, but to save time and energy later in the war, they just stamped the two runes and produced them like that.

Sorry buddy but those SS runes on your rifle are completely fake. There was never a variation of the SS marking that looks like yours. Its totally bogus and fake. Your rifle is not all matching either because Its a russian capture. I can see the 'X' the russians stamped into the receiver. I can also tell its not all matching because your stock is the wrong type. As issued your rifle wouldve been producted with a cupped buttplate instead of a flat buttplate and the side and bottom of the stock wouldve been marked with a WaA135 indicating inspection at Mauser Oberndorf.

Your rifle was made at Mauser Oberndorf (code byf) in 1943. Mauser Oberndorf never produced ANY rifles for the SS. Ever.

[Panzerlied]

Originally Posted by THunter

Sorry buddy but those SS runes on your rifle are completely fake. There was never a variation of the SS marking that looks like yours. Its totally bogus and fake. Your rifle is not all matching either because Its a russian capture. I can see the 'X' the russians stamped into the receiver. I can also tell its not all matching because your stock is the wrong type. As issued your rifle wouldve been producted with a cupped buttplate instead of a flat buttplate.

Your rifle was made at Mauser Oberndorf (code byf) in 1943. Mauser Oberndorf never produced ANY rifles for the SS. Ever.

I never said that I had a K98 SS model, it was assumed, however, in actual SS rifles made, the runes later replaced the skull/rune combo to save time.

They do all match however, the parts. I actually contacted the guy who sold it to the pawn shop from which I bought it, he has a very large collection of Mausers in which he finds matching serials and pieces them accordingly.

Also, the butt plate looks flat because of the angle of the camera. I wouldn't have knowingly bought a fake. I do my research and conducted it thoroughly before I bought that particular rifle.

[THunter]

Originally Posted by Panzerlied

I never said that I had a K98 SS model, it was assumed, however, in actual SS rifles made, the runes later replaced the skull/rune combo to save time.

They do all match however, the parts. I actually contacted the guy who sold it to the pawn shop from which I bought it, he has a very large collection of Mausers in which he finds matching serials and pieces them accordingly.

Also, the butt plate looks flat because of the angle of the camera. I wouldn't have knowingly bought a fake. I do my research and conducted it thoroughly before I bought that particular rifle.

There was never an "SS model" K98. There were rifles produced for the SS and reworked by the SS and Mauser Oberndorf did neither of those. Yes, early on reworked Gew98 to K98 conversions used by the SS are found with variations of the deathshead marking. You are correct to a certain extent. But there were never any rifles marked with just plain ol SS runes (like yours is).

If your "collector" is soo knowledgeable and knows what he has, he wouldnt be selling it to a pawnshop. He sold it to a pawnshop because thats the only place he could get somebody to buy it that doesnt acutally know what it is, without being called out as being a "humper" or a seller of fake rifles.

The guy could be an idiot that knowingly sells fake rifles or he could be just like you and doesnt know some of the rifles he has are fake. I really hope you didnt pay alot for it. I understand you did your 'research' and as much as you wouldnt have knowingly bought a fake, unfortunately, you unknowingly bought a fake. Things like this happen all the time to people just getting into collecting K98s.

Its kinda like you suspect your hot girlfriend might be banging some other dude...but youre not sure... but you wana know... but youre afraid of the truth..because shes hot...and shes your girlfriend...but you need to know the truth.

If you really wana know the truth (in details) sign up and post in this thread: http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread....ed=1#post40753

Those armchair mauser gods on that forum have no idea what theyre talking about

[Panzerlied]

Originally Posted by THunter

There was never an "SS model" K98. There were rifles produced for the SS and reworked by the SS and Mauser Oberndorf did neither of those. Yes, early on reworked Gew98 to K98 conversions used by the SS are found with variations of the deathshead marking. You are correct to a certain extent. But there were never any rifles marked with just plain ol SS runes (like yours is).

If your "collector" is soo knowledgeable and knows what he has, he wouldnt be selling it to a pawnshop. He sold it to a pawnshop because thats the only place he could get somebody to buy it that doesnt acutally know what it is, without being called out as being a "humper" or a seller of fake rifles.

The guy could be an idiot that knowingly sells fake rifles or he could be just like you and doesnt know some of the rifles he has are fake. I really hope you didnt pay alot for it. I understand you did your 'research' and as much as you wouldnt have knowingly bought a fake, unfortunately, you unknowingly bought a fake. Things like this happen all the time to people just getting into collecting K98s.

Its kinda like you suspect your hot girlfriend might be banging some other dude...but youre not sure... but you wana know... but youre afraid of the truth..because shes hot...and shes your girlfriend...but you need to know the truth.

If you really wana know the truth (in details) sign up and post in this thread: http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread....ed=1#post40753

Those armchair mauser gods on that forum have no idea what theyre talking about

I have no idea why you keep insisting it's an SS K98, when it's not. He told me he sold most of his rifles because he needed the money, this rifle being no exception to the rule. I've been to countless K98 forums and sites, and most have told me that the "SS" markings are just an overstamping from when the rifle was produced.

[I. Kant]

This SS is nothing but trouble, if you ask me. A reenactment group from my area doing the SS thing (and perhaps going to far into it) was recently described almost as if they were the devil, because they had a photo with an SS veteran and a different photo in SS (Wehrmacht?) t-shirts (the black eagle with the swastika on a white tee) after a game of football with reenactors doing the 101st.

Nothing but trouble, this SS.

[Alexander Ostmann]

Originally Posted by I. Kant

This SS is nothing but trouble, if you ask me. A reenactment group from my area doing the SS thing (and perhaps going to far into it) was recently described almost as if they were the devil, because they had a photo with an SS veteran and a different photo in SS (Wehrmacht?) t-shirts (the black eagle with the swastika on a white tee) after a game of football with reenactors doing the 101st.

Nothing but trouble, this SS.

How is that at all relevant to the firearm being discussed in the past few posts?

Are there any etched serial numbers on any parts? If it's RC there are bound to be. Check the bolt, under the magazine plate, on the safety, etc.

From what I'm seeing, sorry, Panzerlied, THunter is right on this one. If you paid more than $250 on this one, you got boned.

[THunter]

Originally Posted by Panzerlied

I have no idea why you keep insisting it's an SS K98, when it's not. He told me he sold most of his rifles because he needed the money, this rifle being no exception to the rule. I've been to countless K98 forums and sites, and most have told me that the "SS" markings are just an overstamping from when the rifle was produced.

Im insisting IT ISNT an SS K98. The picuture you showed shows what looks like SS runes on the left side of your barrel near the receiver. If they arent SS runes (which you keep defending and rambling on about) take a close up picture of this "overstamping".

Originally Posted by Panzerlied

Also, the butt plate looks flat because of the angle of the camera.

I also pointed out that in the other picture the rifle pictured has a flat buttplate and you go on and say "its the camera angle". Its not the camera angle and Im more than qualified to know exactly what a flat buttplate looks like when I see one. Its pretty damn ovbious its almost insulting.

You also say its "all matching" when theres clearly an "X" on the side of the reciever showing its a Russian Capture. Electropenciled serial numbers added by the russians do not make a rifle "all matching".


You either dont know what youre talking about, or you pulled those pictures from the internet and made this whole story up. If youve been on "countless K98 forums and sites" how come I havent seen you post pictures of this rifle before!? There are really only TWO websites that are respected and dedicated to discussions about K98Ks. Gunboards and k98kforum.com. Which website did you post on or visit?! And please provide links to those posts if you posted.

If the rifle is yours, post close up pictures of everything.

[Reise]

Quit attacking the guy because his K98 has an extra rune on it.

You've got better things to waste your time getting angry about, I'm sure.

[THunter]

Originally Posted by Reise

Quit attacking the guy because his K98 has an extra rune on it.

You've got better things to waste your time getting angry about, I'm sure.

Attacking!? Im trying to let this guy know his rifle is a fake and he got screwed (if its his at all) But he refuses to acknowledge that or answer any of my questions. This is a legit discussion/debate. If you go and show a rifle that you claim to be yours and "all matching" with when it clearly isnt, Im going to ask questions and give information. If you dont provide information and answers to those questions im going to call you out on it. If you bought a rifle that isnt worth what you paid for it, im pretty sure youd like to know so you can get your money back and in the future you know what to look out for so you dont make the same mistake again. If thats "attacking" to you. Then I guess Im guilty as charged.

Now you on the other hand, Im sure you have better things to do than post uninformitive crap posts just for the sake of trolling and getting your post count higher. Nevermind, that IS what you do.

[Panzerlied]

Originally Posted by THunter

Im insisting IT ISNT an SS K98. The picuture you showed shows what looks like SS runes on the left side of your barrel near the receiver. If they arent SS runes (which you keep defending and rambling on about) take a close up picture of this "overstamping".



I also pointed out that in the other picture the rifle pictured has a flat buttplate and you go on and say "its the camera angle". Its not the camera angle and Im more than qualified to know exactly what a flat buttplate looks like when I see one. Its pretty damn ovbious its almost insulting.

You also say its "all matching" when theres clearly an "X" on the side of the reciever showing its a Russian Capture. Electropenciled serial numbers added by the russians do not make a rifle "all matching".


You either dont know what youre talking about, or you pulled those pictures from the internet and made this whole story up. Im pretty sure its both. Funny thing is, that another member PM'd me here saying he saw this rifle (or one like it) on gunboards.com and some guy in italy was asking if he should buy it. If youve been on "countless K98 forums and sites" how come I havent seen you post pictures of this rifle before!? There are really only TWO websites that are respected and dedicated to discussions about K98Ks. Gunboards and k98kforum.com. Which website did you post on or visit?! And please provide links to those posts if you posted.

If the rifle is yours, post close up pictures of everything. If you dont, I know youre blowing smoke and youre full of sh*t

Yes, it's a recapture. I know it's doesn't contain SS Runes, which someone somewhere assumed it was and blew this entire thing out of proportion. I also did mention that the guy who sold it take those recaptures and pieces them back together. I've posted on AxisHistoryForum about his rifle and one member pointed out the overstamping for what "looks like" SS runes.

It's funny how internet warriors try to sound professional. It's insulting to you? How so, that I bought what you think is a fake rifle? You didn't waste money buying a rifle, so why get so bent out of shape about it? If in the end this is indeed a fake K98 would I care? No, it's a K98 that I enjoy simply to shoot and look at, so I got my money out of it either way. Just sit down, take a breath, and relax, no money out of your wallet.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtop...?f=71&t=173392

5th post down, close up shot.

[THunter]

Originally Posted by Panzerlied

Yes, it's a recapture. I know it's doesn't contain SS Runes, which someone somewhere assumed it was and blew this entire thing out of proportion. I also did mention that the guy who sold it take those recaptures and pieces them back together. I've posted on AxisHistoryForum about his rifle and one member pointed out the overstamping for what "looks like" SS runes.

It's funny how internet warriors try to sound professional. It's insulting to you? How so, that I bought what you think is a fake rifle? You didn't waste money buying a rifle, so why get so bent out of shape about it? If in the end this is indeed a fake K98 would I care? No, it's a K98 that I enjoy simply to shoot and look at, so I got my money out of it either way. Just sit down, take a breath, and relax, no money out of your wallet.

I was simply trying to help you and let you know what you have but you just werent having it. Every valid point I pointed out you simply ignored or didnt acknowledge. You claimed it was an "all matching" rifle. In the world of K98s if you claim a rifle is "all matching" you better back that up with proof. As claiming a rifle is all matching is a high claim to be making. Fakes and Frauds are notorious in screwing new shooters and collectors out of money.

You claimed it was all matching. I saw that it wasnt. I tried to explain to you why it wasnt "all matching" but you, again, werent having it. If im an "internet warrior" for trying to inform you that you got screwed and what you have 90% of most people wont pay half of what you paid for it...then so be it. If all you care about is having something to look at and to shoot then good for you. But if you ever sell this one online and you fail to mention the markings are bogus and claim this one is "all matching" you will catch alot of flak for it and I serriously doubt youll get back the money you invested into it. If you think this is bad you havent seen what happens to guys like that on gunbroker.com or gunboards.com

Glad youre happy with the rifle. Somebody has to keep the people that make fake rifles in business. Next time you want to pay twice, 3x, 4x, 5x...over what something is worth please let me know. You can buy rifles from me all day.

I still await your pictures of this "overstamping" and your "all matching" numbers and the "cupped buttplate".

[Panzerlied]

Originally Posted by THunter

I was simply trying to help you and let you know what you have but you just werent having it. Every valid point I pointed out you simply ignored or didnt acknowledge. You claimed it was an "all matching" rifle. In the world of K98s if you claim a rifle is "all matching" you better back that up with proof as thats a high claim to be making. Fakes and Frauds are notorious in screwing new shooters and collectors out of money.

You claimed it was all matching. I saw that it wasnt. I tried to explain to you why it wasnt "all matching" but you, again, werent having it. If im an "internet warrior" for trying to inform you that you got screwed and what you have 90% of most people wont pay half of what you paid for it then so be it. If all you care about is having something to look at and to shoot then good for you. But when if you ever sell this one online and you fail to mention the markings are bogus and claim this one is "all matching" you will catch alot of flak for it. If you think this is bad you havent seen what happens to guys like that on gunbroker or gunboards.

Glad youre happy with the rifle. Somebody has to keep the people that fake rifles in business.

The way I see this rifle, everything matches, you don't see it that way but hey, every body sees things differently. Again, no money out of your wallet.

Don't plan on selling it, ever, so don't worry about this "fake" being thrown around.

If you take a look at the link I posted, there's your overstamping.

[Panzerlied]

Anyway, to get the thread back on track I'll get some more pics of my Luger up soon.

[THunter]

Originally Posted by Panzerlied

If you take a look at the link I posted, there's your overstamping.

Ive highlighted the "SS runes" in question, thats what everybody here was referring to:



Your "overstamping" at the bottom right is actually another Russian "X" with fake SS runes to the right of it. Those fake SS runes on the receiver (below) are the same fake SS runes on the barrel shoulder (above):

[Panzerlied]

Originally Posted by THunter

Ive highlighted the "SS runes" in question, thats what everybody here was referring to:

Still troubling yourself over this? It's an overstamp, that's all

[Panzerlied]

Nothing better to do eh?

[THunter]

Originally Posted by Panzerlied

Still troubling yourself over this? It's an overstamp, that's all

Troubling myself? Not at all. This is comical. You remind me of those people on pawn stars that find out what they have is fake, but walk out thinking everybody else is wrong. If all you really care about is looking at it and shooting it, why are you dismissing the fact that the markings are fake SS runes?

Overstamp of what?! There is absolutely no markings under or near the Russian X and fake SS runes that resemble anything that was stamped on that side of the receiver. So please DO explain. Please go into details.

[Panzerlied]

Originally Posted by THunter

Troubling myself? Not at all. This is comical. You remind me of those people on pawn stars that find out what they have is fake, but walk out thinking everybody else is wrong. If all you really care about is looking at it and shooting it, why are you dismissing the fact that the markings are fake SS runes?

Overstamp of what?! Do explain. Please go into details.

Real/Fake, I don't care about the "runes" it's a good looking rifle to me and that is all.

[Panzerlied]

Here are some pics of the Luger I recently came into possession of.

The second picture has what could appear to some as a 3, but is an 8 for the serial of 8926.

A few posts back I stated that all parts match, minus the magazine, which has a different serial and a manufacturer mark I have yet to identify (as noted in pic Luger10, there appears to be a box, with a star-burst over it.

[Panzerlied]

Luger pics part 2